The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

So don't replace your ICE vehicle with a larger or much more powerful EV thinking that being electrified nullifies all environmental impact. But if you've decided to buy a large and powerful vehicle because you feel you need or want it, then it is much better for it to be an EV. The environmental impact of a small ICE vehicle is much better than that of an ICE suburban or Hummer regardless.

I don't know of anyone that would rationally think that. It's pretty obvious that not owning a vehicle and utilizing alternative methods of transportation such as walking, biking, and public transit would be more environmentally friendly. But when we are discussing EVs, I think it's important to frame it appropriately, against the status quo, which is ICE cars. And to take it a step further, to compare EVs and ICE cars of similar build and use cases. It doesn't really make sense to compare the environmental impact of a small ICE car vs an EV Hummer because one is not a replacement for the other. Someone that's buying an EV Hummer was probably someone that owned an ICE Hummer at some point. Someone that owned a Honda Fit is probably going to be looking into a Tesla Model 2 when it comes out.

And also, I don't think it's reasonable to expect car manufacturers to try to shift consumers into alternative modes of transportation. They're here to make and sell cars that they think will make them money. It's the responsibility of the government and city planners/officials to develop infrastructure in order to make more environmentally friendly modes of transportation better options than personal vehicles.

[Nouvellecosse]

Yeah it seems pretty crazy although I don't entirely blame it on consumers. There's so much messaging that repeats terms like "green", "zero emissions" and "environment friendly" that it's easy to forget the comparatively part. There are also still lots of people around claiming the opposite, saying that EVs are no better or even worse for the environment than ICE vehicles. I personally find that even crazier. We still get the odd one popping into the thread to "educate" everyone for time to time.

Just goes to show that when people want to believe something, they're very good at convincing themselves that it's true.

[Innsertnamehere]

An EV run on renewable energy has a remarkably low carbon footprint. One produced at a plant run on renewable energy is even lower. The cleanliness of the grid the the car is built on and operates on has a massive impact on its carbon footprint.

What leads to EVs being “relatively” better is most of the world still has a pretty carbon intensive electric grid. An EV running in Quebec is going to produce a very small fraction of lifetime emissions over one running in China.

A Hummer EV would have a much lower carbon footprint than a Civic in Quebec, but in West Virginia, maybe less so.

[urbandreamer]

Kia EV9 looks nice but it's too big: designed for the grey and beige mcmansionite.

I prefer the VW ID 2all unveiled today:
https://youtu.be/IDvn0tOr0VI
A mix of MK4 Golf and Scirocco.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Kia EV9 looks nice but it's too big: designed for the grey and beige mcmansionite.

I prefer the VW ID 2all unveiled today:
https://youtu.be/IDvn0tOr0VI
A mix of MK4 Golf and Scirocco.

And given that we don't even get the ID3 it is unlikely we will ever see the 2. No wonder VW's sales are tanking in North America.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And given that we don't even get the ID3 it is unlikely we will ever see the 2. No wonder VW's sales are tanking in North America.

They could do so well with this as a Golf replacement. €25k = CA$36k. Gamechanger. Especially with credits and rebates. They could kill what's left of Civic/Corolla market.

[Nouvellecosse]

The Transport Evolved channel just did a whole video lamenting the ID3's unavailability in NA.

[urbandreamer]

Doubtful. While I like it, it would suck having to charge a car 3x daily on my 1000+ km daily road trips, especially taking the scenic, often gravel rural routes across Canada and USA. I hope they make a hybrid version with a small 3 cylinder engine. $30k + is still unaffordable for a poor person like myself. Anyway this car has a higher chance than ID3 of being sold in Canada c.2026, competing with Tesla's Model 2 & likely a cheaper Hyundai Kia offering. VW has finally ditched their awful tiny screens/haptic inputs and shitty software.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Doubtful. While I like it, it would suck having to charge a car 3x daily on my 1000+ km daily road trips, especially taking the scenic, often gravel rural routes across Canada and USA. I hope they make a hybrid version with a small 3 cylinder engine. $30k + is still unaffordable for a poor person like myself.

You're an outlier case. Not a lot of supposedly poor people have the time and disposable income for 1000km roadtrips while offroading.

I assure you not many OEMs will be catering to you in North America. US$25k BEVs will kill most of the hybrid market. Will kill a lot of the cheaper gas market too.

The good news for outliers like you is that the used market will be relatively decent till the late 2030s at least.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They could do so well with this as a Golf replacement. €25k = CA$36k. Gamechanger. Especially with credits and rebates. They could kill what's left of Civic/Corolla market.

The ID2 looks more like an equivalent of the smaller VW Polo (which we've never got). It's sad to see the quirky and different image that VW used to cultivate in North Americato drive sales disappear. Instead of "Drivers Wanted" it is now more like "Soccer moms wanted".

They need to bring back this kind of spirit:

• Video Link

[urbandreamer]

If you set up your lifestyle so your investments/dividends support a flexible living situation, you can justify working 6-8 months and traveling the remainder, albeit very modestly mostly living the car/vanlife-style. I'm not a jetsetter/luxury airbnb hotel person.

What might save us poor people is an affordable hybrid/battery conversion kit. Imagine for a few thousand bucks, maybe $5000 tops,being able to swap the ICE compartment etc for 500km range BEV system. Rich kids are doing this now with classic cars, so when the tech matures there's hope.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I'm not a jetsetter/luxury airbnb hotel person.

I'm not suggesting you are. But you're definitely not the average poor person either. How many poor people you know do this:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

....set up your lifestyle so your investments/dividends support a flexible living situation, you can justify working 6-8 months and traveling the remainder....

In any event, this is just not a large enough market to target with specific models. The majority of hybrid buyers are doing so for two reasons:

1) affordability
2) charging challenges

US$25k BEVs solves #1 at minimum. And #2 is a shrinking market so not much incentive for OEMs to actually facilitate. The Japanese and Korean OEMs will keep pushing hybrids till the end of the decade. At that point they either go BEVs or they'll go bankrupt. This video should put some context around the pain facing the legacy automaker (and keep in mind Tesla will be 5-10x today's output by 2030):

• Video Link

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Kia EV9 looks nice but it's too big: designed for the grey and beige mcmansionite.

I prefer the VW ID 2all unveiled today:
https://youtu.be/IDvn0tOr0VI
A mix of MK4 Golf and Scirocco.

It's a Telluride/Pallisade sized EV, the largest of the Kia/Hundai SUV class. I would like to see the rumoured EV7, the supposed Sorento/Santa Fe class EV. Given that I'm just a few months into a new Sorento HEV and am moving in 2 weeks to have a 10km round trip work commute (down from the 140km daily drive now), I have some time to wait for it.

[urbandreamer]

Most poor people I knew were married with kids, mostly renters or TH dwellers (bought in the 1990s-2008 era), but spent much of their income leasing minivans, pick-up trucks and SUVS, buying booze/cigarettes and lottery tickets, and tacky "family vacation packages" to Vegas, Cuba etc. One of the immigrant ones mocked me for taking the TTC and saving 75% of my income. One even leased a Tesla Model S: I think he lived in it.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The ID2 looks more like an equivalent of the smaller VW Polo (which we've never got). It's sad to see the quirky and different image that VW used to cultivate in North Americato drive sales disappear. Instead of "Drivers Wanted" it is now more like "Soccer moms wanted".

They need to bring back this kind of spirit:

• Video Link

Cars are getting bigger for sure. I recently borrowed a Jetta during my maintenance and that thing is probably as big as a Passat from a decade ago. The ID2 looks to be about as big as the Golf in this commercial. The ID3 is actually quite big. I believe internal volume is higher than current generation Golf.

[theman23]

Sign me up for an ID2 if it ever comes to North America.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They could do so well with this as a Golf replacement. €25k = CA$36k. Gamechanger. Especially with credits and rebates. They could kill what's left of Civic/Corolla market.

Are you assuming Civic and Corolla won't be full electric?
Corolla and Civic already have hybrid variants.
Toyota Corolla is still the most popular small sedan in North America.

USA numbers from 2022:
Toyota sold 222,000 Corollas in 2022.
Honda sold just under 134,000 Civics
VW sold...less than 7,900 Golfs (More Porsche 911s are sold than Golfs!)

VW are super popular in Europe, not so much in North America.
The best selling VW in USA was Tiguan with 71,085 units sold in USA in 2022.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-u...ures-by-model/

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The Japanese and Korean OEMs will keep pushing hybrids till the end of the decade. At that point they either go BEVs or they'll go bankrupt.

Did you not see my post that Hyundai/Kia have 11 full electrics and 13 hybrids in the works?
So far 4 of the 11 electrics have been released:
** Hyundai Ioniq 5 (NE) (2021–present)
** Hyundai Ioniq 6 (CE) (2022–present)
** Kia EV6 (CV) (2021–present)
** Genesis GV60 (JW) (2021–present)

Don't rule out Japan or Korea for autos. People want good value for the money. Toyota and Honda have decades of proven reliability, the latest Kias are proving to be almost as reliable (urbandreamer's girlfriend's Soul model nothwithstanding )

Chinese brands have no name recognition or quality/reliability, VW doesn't have high sales in North America.

Tesla is clearly the BEV leader right now, but that might not be the case in 5 or 10 years.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The ID2 looks more like an equivalent of the smaller VW Polo (which we've never got). It's sad to see the quirky and different image that VW used to cultivate in North Americato drive sales disappear. Instead of "Drivers Wanted" it is now more like "Soccer moms wanted". They need to bring back this kind of spirit: • Video Link

VW used to make great commercials.

• Video Link

Stormare in "Unpimp ze Auto" was good too.

[Wigs]

My friend had a new GTI in the early 2000s. Great car. So fast zipping around town! Electronic music (drum n bass/jungle usually) thumping at 200 watts
I don't know how I'm not deaf from the period of 1996-2006