Canadian province/ U.S. state analogues

[Doady]

I think Ontario is most similar to California, very booming in recent decades, but still mostly uninhabited. Montreal was the place, now Toronto is the place. New York was the place, now Los Angeles is the place.

People compare it to Chicago, but the Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa urban area is most similar to Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Monica-Pasadena-Santa Ana, multiple small cities that eventually grew into each other. Chicago is monocentric, Toronto and Los Angeles are polycentric. This is even reflected in their transit systems, where Chicago is hub-based while Toronto is grid-based. Toronto's east-west subway line actually runs north of downtown, and a north-south LRT is under construction 7km away from the western terminus of this subway line, not even touching the City of Toronto boundary.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Doady

I think Ontario is most similar to California, very booming in recent decades, but still mostly uninhabited. Montreal was the place, now Toronto is the place. New York was the place, now Los Angeles is the place.

People compare it to Chicago, but the Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa urban area is most similar to Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Monica-Pasadena-Santa Ana, multiple small cities that eventually grew into each other. Chicago is monocentric, Toronto and Los Angeles are polycentric. This is even reflected in their transit systems, where Chicago is hub-based while Toronto is grid-based. Toronto's east-west subway line actually runs north of downtown, and a north-south LRT is under construction 7km away from the western terminus of this subway line, not even touching the City of Toronto boundary.

A lot of the dense 80s and 90s SFH suburbia surrounding Toronto actually resembles LA suburbia from the same period. Different trees and snow for part of the year.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Doady

Montreal was the place, now Toronto is the place. New York was the place, now Los Angeles is the place.

I wasn't aware that L.A. had surpassed NYC and became the largest city in the U.S.

[Luisito]

LA suburbia looks a lot like inner city regular LA. LOL

[Docere]

Originally Posted by harls

Growing up one mile from the US border in MB, I found North Dakotans a strange bunch.

One thing about the Prairies is there are no close U.S. major cities as the Dakotas and Montana are very thinly populated and contain no major cities. Minneapolis is a 7 hour drive from Winnipeg. I don't even know what U.S. city is on the radar in Calgary (Denver is probably the US city most like it but it's too far away).

If you want a smaller city well Fargo is 4 hours from Winnipeg and Spokane is 7 hours from Calgary.

It's funny how some think the Prairies is the most "American" region - presumably because of the politics (simplistic more conservative = more American, more progressive= more Canadian thinking at work?)

[harls]

In the 80's and early 90s, farmers would purchase anhydrous ammonia tanks from the US and haul it over to Canada to fertilize their fields.

I still have some free hats.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Doady

I think Ontario is most similar to California, very booming in recent decades, but still mostly uninhabited. Montreal was the place, now Toronto is the place. New York was the place, now Los Angeles is the place.

People compare it to Chicago, but the Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa urban area is most similar to Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Monica-Pasadena-Santa Ana, multiple small cities that eventually grew into each other.

Toronto has no equivalent to Santa Monica or Pasadena. L.A. was already very polycentric in the early 20th century and had a unique typology at the time. In the early 20th century, Toronto developed fairly similarly to most Midwestern and Great Lakes cities.

The "Los Angeles" element is really the 905.

Hamilton is more like a Tacoma or a Wilmington than any of the L.A. cities mentioned.

Chicago is monocentric, Toronto and Los Angeles are polycentric. This is even reflected in their transit systems, where Chicago is hub-based while Toronto is grid-based. Toronto's east-west subway line actually runs north of downtown, and a north-south LRT is under construction 7km away from the western terminus of this subway line, not even touching the City of Toronto boundary.

Toronto has a very strong downtown, L.A. doesn't.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Luisito

This is true but these communities are really small. Just a small fractions of the overall Black community in Canada.

There's more to it than numbers. I'm skeptical that all black Canadians form a community in the sense that say Preston NS is one, and real communities can have an outsized political and cultural impact as well as historical institutions that other groups don't have. For example there's a majority black electoral district in NS and it sometimes has all-black slates of political candidates. Acadians are similarly not just treated as X% of the population. They are a historical minority with special rights like their own school board.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by harls

In the 80s when the dollar was near par, the family would venture over there (no need for passports or anything). They had exotic cereals and 'whole' milk and 'sharp' cheddar. People at the grocery store would greet you with the weird 'oh you betcha' you hear in Fargo.

We would get a lot of 18 year olds coming up to the bar in my town from the US and you could identify them as American because they wore those cool leather jackets from their high school (which our town never had).

When KCI won the provincial football championship in 1978 we bought the cool leather jackets to celebrate the accomplishment. Boy were they ever nice. Mine got stolen at party in the 80`s. I was at the tail end of the baby boom and within a couple of years the football program was gone because of the lack of players

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Docere

One thing about the Prairies is there are no close U.S. major cities as the Dakotas and Montana are very thinly populated and contain no major cities. Minneapolis is a 7 hour drive from Winnipeg. I don't even know what U.S. city is on the radar in Calgary (Denver is probably the US city most like it but it's too far away).

If you want a smaller city well Fargo is 4 hours from Winnipeg and Spokane is 7 hours from Calgary.

It's funny how some think the Prairies is the most "American" region - presumably because of the politics (simplistic more conservative = more American, more progressive= more Canadian thinking at work?)

It was a thing for the families along the border (Melita-Medora region) to have their kids born in North Dakota to get the US citizenship. Don`t know if that happens much anymore.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's more to it than numbers. I'm skeptical that all black Canadians form a community in the sense that say Preston NS is one, and real communities can have an outsized political and cultural impact as well as historical institutions that other groups don't have. For example there's a majority black electoral district in NS and it sometimes has all-black slates of political candidates. Acadians are similarly not just treated as X% of the population. They are a historical minority with special rights like their own school board.

Not sure what you're getting at but my original point is Black comunities in Canada are very distinct from those in the US. I also never said they make up one community. It is true communities like north preston have historical ties to the US but they have now been here for a long time and again the community is very small and not representative of the majority of Black communities across Canada in any way shape or form. As far as their influence locally, yeah despite being very small community they are well known. Preston is very small community though. I grew up in Halifax so I am very familiar with the communities out there.

[someone123]

You said they are "Just a small fractions of the overall Black community in Canada". But I'm not sure there is a national community in the same sense. You're talking about neighbourhoods and settlements vs. demographics.

In the case of NS I'm not sure the ties to the USA matter that much. It is more that they've been around for hundreds of years and have put down roots and built things over time. It's true that they happened to import a distinct culture but it could have come from somewhere else. Some of the black people who moved to NS in the 1700's and 1800's were from the West Indies or elsewhere, and the USA itself wasn't really that old or as culturally distinct back then (it didn't exist when the first black people moved to NS).

[Luisito]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by someone123

You said they are "Just a small fractions of the overall Black community in Canada". I said there isn't really a Canada-wide community that is similar and made up of the 0.6% of people in this or that town spread over thousands of km.

Yes I know there isn't a wide community that is similar, I said that already. I didn't bring them up, some one else did. And yes they don't have very much in common with the larger groups of caribbeans who were and have been the majority of Black folks in Canadian cities, and now a growing number of Africans also

In the case of NS I'm not sure the ties to the USA matter that much. .

You're right it actually doesn't matter that is my point. Again I am not the one that brought them up.

[Docere]

Demographically the most similar place to Toronto in the USA is Queens NY.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Montreal is a bit different. Vancouver has a large Chinese community but for the most part the demographics are a long the same lines. So is pretty much every other Canadian city.

I don't see how Van is at all demographically "close" to London. Chinese are the largest minority group by far, while there are few Chinese in Britain. There's also very few Blacks in Vancouver while London is around 13% Black. London is actually more Black than the Bay Area and L.A. by percentage. They both have lots of South Asians but Van's is mostly Sikh and has few Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

Its demographic profile is closer to the Bay Area than it is to London, though it obviously has its distinctive characteristics.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

It was a thing for the families along the border (Melita-Medora region) to have their kids born in North Dakota to get the US citizenship. Don`t know if that happens much anymore.

I heard that it costs $20K-30K to have a kid in a US hospital. Whereas, aside from the parking fee, it costs nothing at a Canadian hospital. Plus, one is much less likely to be drafted, while estate taxes are far lower, in Canada. America also charges income taxes on its citizens living in other countries. People should be careful about what they wish for.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Docere

I don't see how Van is at all demographically "close" to London. Chinese are the largest minority group by far, while there are few Chinese in Britain. There's also very few Blacks in Vancouver while London is around 13% Black. London is actually more Black than the Bay Area and L.A. by percentage. They both have lots of South Asians but Van's is mostly Sikh and has few Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

Its demographic profile is closer to the Bay Area than it is to London, though it obviously has its distinctive characteristics.

Yeah. I don't see the London comparison at all outside of a large South Asian population.

Metro Vancouver has a massive East/Southeast Asian population that helps define the region. I'm not really sure what its demographic analog would be, actually. I guess the Bay Area (as you mentioned) would be the closest outside of Canada, but Vancouver lacks a large Latino population like The Bay Area, so I don't know.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Docere

I don't see how Van is at all demographically "close" to London. Chinese are the largest minority group by far, while there are few Chinese in Britain. There's also very few Blacks in Vancouver while London is around 13% Black. London is actually more Black than the Bay Area and L.A. by percentage. They both have lots of South Asians but Van's is mostly Sikh and has few Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.
.

Its not really close to London in exact numbers but follows the same pattern of immigration, they just happend to have a lot more chinese. Also south Asians etc. The same Black people moving to London are for the most part are the same ones moving to Canada. If we look at Australian cities we will probably see the samething.

The Black people in the bay area and LA are not immigrants. Not really comparable at all. This something some always over look when talking about these things. Black Americans for the most part are not immigrants. They are as American as apple pie.

Its demographic profile is closer to the Bay Area than it is to London, though it obviously has its distinctive characteristics

Really? Have you heard of Oakland? San Jose? Richmond? Vallejo? Sorry but Vancouver has no suburbs remotely similar to these places. San Francisco itself is like 15% Hispanic. San Francisco had a much bigger Black community at one point. The east bay still does have a large Black community.

[Docere]

Yes Vancouver is more similar to the Bay Area than London demographically. It doesn't mean it's especially similar let alone pretty much the same. The Bay Area has large numbers of East and Southeast Asians, who form the largest group in Vancouver; their numbers are tiny in London. The Bay Area may have the lowest South Asian proportion of the three, but it is a lot more South Asian than London is East and Southeast Asian.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by giallo

Yeah. I don't see the London comparison at all outside of a large South Asian population.

Metro Vancouver has a massive East/Southeast Asian population that helps defines the region. I'm not really sure what's its demographic analog would be, actually. I guess the Bay Area (as you mentioned) would be the closest outside of Canada, but Vancouver lacks a large Latino population like The Bay Area, so I don't know.

Perhaps San Jose/Silicon Valley comes closest. Santa Clara County is plurality-Asian and a very small Black population. Of course it's got a huge Latino population that Canada lacks and is less white overall.