The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[jollyburger]

They're opening in Coquitlam Centre as well.

[hollywoodnorth]

Troubling trend as more of Vancouver's retail spaces sit empty

https://theprovince.com/news/local-n...aces-sit-empty



with the lawlessness going right now only a crazy person would open a retail business or restaurant in the COV.

A window boarding and replacement service being the exception.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

Troubling trend as more of Vancouver's retail spaces sit empty

with the lawlessness going right now only a crazy person would open a retail business or restaurant in the COV.

A window boarding and replacement service being the exception.

Didn't bother to read the story then? Vacancy rates Downtown are 7%, the same as Commercial Drive, and in Yaletown is 6%. The high vacancy rates "include Strathcona at 27 per cent, Hastings Crossing at 22 per cent, Point Grey Village and Dunbar Village at 17 per cent, and Chinatown at 16 per cent."

The picture they include for Strathcona is an East Hastings mission, that closed down because of covid. A lot of East Hastings store fronts haven't had retail uses for decades, and many are now closed (and not reopening) because it wasn't safe to run social service drop-in services during covid. Several of the 'convenience stores' also closed. There are new stores opening on both the 800 block of E Hastings, where Lowtide Properties have been renovating the buildings, and in the 900 block in Strathcona Village building, so the vacancy rate will go down a bit, and several other vacant blocks have been demolished for redevelopment, but it's unlikely that vacancy will drop as much in some parts of the area.

I wasn't aware that Point Grey Village or Dunbar faced the same issues of vandalism. Could the effect of covid on the economy as a whole, and the wealthy west side ordering Amazon Prime instead be a factor? The new retail landscape may look very different to the pre-covid era, and there might be insufficient demand for stores and services in a number of locations - especially the areas where population numbers are staying the same.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I wasn't aware that Point Grey Village or Dunbar faced the same issues of vandalism. Could the effect of covid on the economy as a whole, and the wealthy west side ordering Amazon Prime instead be a factor? The new retail landscape may look very different to the pre-covid era, and there might be insufficient demand for stores and services in a number of locations - especially the areas where population numbers are staying the same.

Having done a fair bit of business on the west side and with family living in UBC, Wesbrook Village had a lot to do with the decline of Point Grey Village. Wesbrook became the go-to retail / grocery and restaurant destination the moment it opened and Point Grey Village went into decline immediately after, the loss of the Safeway was the nail in the coffin. The decline had little to do with increased costs and covid IMO, it happened long before.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Having done a fair bit of business on the west side and with family living in UBC, Westbrook Village had a lot to do with the decline of Point Grey Village. Wesbrook became the go-to retail / grocery and restaurant destination the moment it opened and Point Grey Village went into decline immediately after, the loss of the Safeway was the nail in the coffin. The decline had little to do with increased costs and covid IMO, it happened long before.

Yes, good point - there are other reasons why Point Grey Village has declined. Whatever the cause, it probably isn't 'lawlessness' leading to the high vacancy rate there.

[jollyburger]

Also, they've dumped a lot of new CRUs underneath new social housing along East Hastings that will sit empty for years which might inflate the numbers.

I wonder if those shops along 800 East Hastings are paying market rates.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Also, they've dumped a lot of new CRUs underneath new social housing along East Hastings that will sit empty for years which might inflate the numbers.

I wonder if those shops along 800 East Hastings are paying market rates.

Yeah that stuff always takes a long time to get absorbed, no matter what type of residential is on top. Main St/Mt Pleasant is only slowly filling spaces built 2-3 years ago, or more.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Whatever the cause, it probably isn't 'lawlessness' leading to the high vacancy rate there.

If anything, the costs of vandalism and "lawlessness" are just passed along to the consumer.

[whatnext]

The only odd one there is Dunbar. There were quite a few vacant units but they were located in buildings awaiting demolition. Sounds like they might have counted them as "empty".

It is strange that South Granville is mentioned only fleetingly. There are a lot of vacant units for an area that is relatively dense. Also, one would have expected more businesses displaced from Broadway to relocate there. I wonder if this is a case of one or two greedy landlords causing high vacancies?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The only odd one there is Dunbar. There were quite a few vacant units but they were located in buildings awaiting demolition. Sounds like they might have counted them as "empty".

It is strange that South Granville is mentioned only fleetingly. There are a lot of vacant units for an area that is relatively dense. Also, one would have expected more businesses displaced from Broadway to relocate there. I wonder if this is a case of one or two greedy landlords causing high vacancies?

But you assume some places on Broadway had cheaper leases that might not work on Granville or it's the wrong demographic. Paying up for rent for retail/service that doesn't need to be on South Granville.

[Vin]

For the previously posted article:

Troubling trend as more of Vancouver's retail spaces sit empty
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...aces-sit-empty

In Vancouver, other than high retail rental prices mentioned in the article, the other prime factors are as follows:

1. Deserted storefront retail along long stretches of certain arterial roads instead of being in a node which includes nearby local roads with commercial designation, for shopping convenience and retail synergy.
2. Low housing densities near major retail stretches.
3. Lousy law and order enforcement in many neighbourhoods, exacerbated by the pandemic reduction in foot traffic.

The city can definitely do a lot more to help address the current problems, but nothing is being done at the moment, and planning for future neighbourhoods still focuses heavily on arterial street retail.

So in the meantime,
City centre mall = 1
Street retail = 0

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, good point - there are other reasons why Point Grey Village has declined. Whatever the cause, it probably isn't 'lawlessness' leading to the high vacancy rate there.

It is because UBC, not under CoV, is building way better CRU nodes with their superior zoning bylaws, and hence folks naturally gravitate toward those newer shopping areas rather than dwelling in old boring rundown tired-looking Point Grey Village and other backward Vancouver "villages".

With empty storefronts, even "lawlessness" will finally beset Point Grey Village too.

Seen this coming a decade ago, and yet it's still "same ol" in City Hall.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vin

It is because UBC, not under CoV, is building way better CRU nodes with their superior zoning bylaws, and hence folks naturally gravitate toward those newer shopping areas rather than dwelling in old boring rundown tired-looking Point Grey Village and other backward Vancouver "villages".

With empty storefronts, even "lawlessness" will finally beset Point Grey Village too.

Seen this coming a decade ago, and yet it's still "same ol" in City Hall.

They built CRUs to serve an entirely new community on campus. Wesbrook alone was only 112,000 square feet of commercial. Except for a government liquor store and maybe the Save-On the retail mix isn't that superior in any way except for it being housed in newer buildings.

[GenWhy?]

Is Westbrook Mall driver / parking friendly?

[memememe76]

It has free hours (for 2 hours I think?), which is a big deal for UBC. It also has some nice restaurants like Biercraft, Virtuous Pie, Chef Hung, Neptune. It has a really nice bakery too. Coffee is only Blenz, which is weird.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by memememe76

It has free hours (for 2 hours I think?), which is a big deal for UBC. It also has some nice restaurants like Biercraft, Virtuous Pie, Chef Hung, Neptune. It has a really nice bakery too. Coffee is only Blenz, which is weird.

there is a Starbucks in the Save-On.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by memememe76

It has free hours (for 2 hours I think?), which is a big deal for UBC. It also has some nice restaurants like Biercraft, Virtuous Pie, Chef Hung, Neptune. It has a really nice bakery too. Coffee is only Blenz, which is weird.

77 surface/190 underground for that 2 hour parking.

I assume they pay similar property tax rates compared to CoV.

[zahav]

I've actually noticed more "leased" signs along Robson lately, seems to actually be filling up again. And South Granville has had vacancies for quite some time, I haven't noticed anything extraordinary in the last year TBH. Retail in general is having a real adjustment period in many cities right now, I don't think Vancouver is faring worse than other places.

With that said, the "lawlessness" is something that must be dealt with, and not just ignored. Resting on doing OK as opposed to really working to make things better better is important, and I do wish we would get a more pro-business environment. There is so much more potential if the will was there. Some cities pull out all the stops to attract business and it still doesn't work, we are lucky to have a natural desire for businesses to want to be here, so to not support and nurture that is a wasted opportunity that some places don't have

[Conrad Yablonski]

Please Note-it's Wesbrook there is no T.

I worked out there when that area was starting and Yes it's true that was the last straw for overpriced boring old Point Grey.

The bakery as mentioned is Doughgirls who's owners formerly ran an operation in....wait for it....Point Grey.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Also, they've dumped a lot of new CRUs underneath new social housing along East Hastings that will sit empty for years which might inflate the numbers.

It boggles one's mind who on earth came up with the idea if putting them there, as those spaces will never see proper businesses lease the space. The only "businesses" to ever occupy them may be poverty industry or injection sites.

Westside businesses must be suffering from the declining population, as nobody lives in those multi-million dollar houses. There is no population to support them.