Rail-based Transit Discussion

[Patrick Matthews]

For fun I walked the rail cut on the bridge near Ellershouse. High bridge which in parts couldnt take my weight let alone anything substantial. Assuming the supports are in better shape than the rails, but an indicator.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think any commuter rail system will require a major financial investment to build (or repair?) the infrastructure that's needed for it. The most important point, IMHO, is how much of the necessary ROW still exists for it, and is it able to be obtained by the City or Province, if they (we) do not already own it?

They aren't making anymore land, so once the ROW is gone, it becomes that much more difficult and expensive to pull it off. Given the lackluster performance of the government(s) in their inability to get this going, I would say that once a major hurdle like this is in place, it will probably never happen. Geez, as per Keith's link, we were discussing this 15 years ago on this forum, and nothing, that is, ZERO, has been done since then, to get this rolling.

Meanwhile, let's spend provincial tax dollars (of which we pay too much, compared to other provinces at least) to study commuter rail in rural Cape Breton.

[Patrick Matthews]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I think any commuter rail system will require a major financial investment to build (or repair?) the infrastructure that's needed for it. The most important point, IMHO, is how much of the necessary ROW still exists for it, and is it able to be obtained by the City or Province, if they (we) do not already own it?

They aren't making anymore land, so once the ROW is gone, it becomes that much more difficult and expensive to pull it off. Given the lackluster performance of the government(s) in their inability to get this going, I would say that once a major hurdle like this is in place, it will probably never happen. Geez, as per Keith's link, we were discussing this 15 years ago on this forum, and nothing, that is, ZERO, has been done since then, to get this rolling.

Meanwhile, let's spend provincial tax dollars (of which we pay too much, compared to other provinces at least) to study commuter rail in rural Cape Breton.

There was an interesting parcel of land available near Windsor Junction that would have been perfect for park and ride on a future commuter train on existing rail (either into Halifax and or towards Windsor). Cheap and plentiful. I couldnt get any level of government to be interested in it. Zero foresight at all. It wont just be the ROW (most important) we will need a way to get to it.

Cant fill the Basin in where there isnt one!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Argh! The more I hear, the worse it sounds. Thanks for the info.

[Keith P.]

I think politicians are loathe to even mention mass transit systems of any sort. Many are expensive and work very poorly (i.e. Halifax Transit) while others are insanely expensive and seem to take forever to construct (any rail system or one requiring creation of new ROWs). For pols, it is a no-win operation.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think politicians are loathe to even mention mass transit systems of any sort. Many are expensive and work very poorly (i.e. Halifax Transit) while others are insanely expensive and seem to take forever to construct (any rail system or one requiring creation of new ROWs). For pols, it is a no-win operation.

Seems to work in other parts of the world just fine!

[HarbingerDe]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Seesm to work in other parts of the world just fine!

Trains are expensive. When the government does expensive things (unless it's something that lets me get my F150 downtown more conveniently), that's called socialism. Something only the hoity-toity, over-educated, ivory tower bureaucrat junior planners at Halifax Planning & Development would suggest.

[Empire]

How stupid is this? How?

There is no A/C at the ferry terminal???

Essentially it rates right up there with potholes on the main entrance to downtown.....

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Empire

How stupid is this? How?

There is no A/C at the ferry terminal???

Essentially it rates right up there with potholes on the main entrance to downtown.....

Does it get quite hot in the terminal? I don't think I've ever taken the ferry on a really hot day but i always assumed it would be fairly cool so close to the water.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Does it get quite hot in the terminal? I don't think I've ever taken the ferry on a really hot day but i always assumed it would be fairly cool so close to the water.

I took the Rita Joe over to Halifax Friday night at about 5:30 PM and waited in the Dartmouth terminal for about 5 minutes. It was warm, very warm.

[IanWatson]

Feds have announced funding for all new rolling stock for Via Eail across the whole system (except the Windsor corridor which just got new stock), including Atlantic Canada. I didn't realize it but apparently the majority of the passenger cars on the system date from immediately after WWII.

[ArchAficionado]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Feds have announced funding for all new rolling stock for Via Eail across the whole system (except the Windsor corridor which just got new stock), including Atlantic Canada. I didn't realize it but apparently the majority of the passenger cars on the system date from immediately after WWII.

The new trains are nice. i rode one on the Montreal - Quebec corridor that goes through the eastern townships of Quebec, and it reached speeds up to 170km/h. These will be mostly speed limited by the track / by CN rail's speed limits rather than their own design speeds, which will make them future proof, for a while!

The seats, however, are much less comfortable than the '70s style cushy seats on the older passenger cars, and with a bit less leg room. Still an order of magnitude better experience than any airline seat, though.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Feds have announced funding for all new rolling stock for Via Eail across the whole system (except the Windsor corridor which just got new stock), including Atlantic Canada. I didn't realize it but apparently the majority of the passenger cars on the system date from immediately after WWII.

A commitment to procure new long-distance rolling stock for Via was included in the last federal budget; however, what that will mean for the future of the network remains unclear. No dollar amounts were identified, ostensibly to protect the competitive procurement process. Likewise the government has also been silent on how many cars are to be purchased, what types they’ll be and what routes they’ll serve. Ideally there would be enough rolling stock to restore daily trans-continental service — two and three departures a week is neither practical for passengers nor economically viable — but I’m highly skeptical. Then there is the political reality that this government may not be around to place the orders in any case.

Amtrak began its own procurement process for new long distance equipment about 18 months ago, including public consultation last fall. They had expressions of interest with up to 10 builders but, as far as I know, the formal request for proposals has not been issued yet. Siemens, which is now completing its delivery of 32 Venture train sets to Via for the Quebec-Windsor corridor, would have to be a leading contender. Its new Nightjet trains for Austrian railway OBB have an impressive array of sleeping classes. They also have good at-seat dining options but no dedicated restaurant, lounge or observation cars, a must on long North American routes.

For the record, the two biggest groups of Via’s long-distance cars are the Budd-built stainless steel fleet manufactured in 1954-55 for CP and the British-built Renaissance fleet rebuilt by Via in 2002. There are some older late-40s to early-50s stainless steel cars that Via acquired from US railroads and rebuilt. These stainless cars are tanks and, according to Via, can last indefinitely. (Transport Canada-mandated testing last year confirmed this; ironically the testing itself resulted in the loss of several cars.) Unfortunately, internal components including wiring need renewal every 30 years or so. The soft-steel Renaissance cars are already corroding badly and are on borrowed time.

[gcaven]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Likewise the government has also been silent on how many cars are to be purchased

They are looking to acquire "over 40" new locomotives and "over 300" passenger cars, which I believe is a significant expansion over the current long-distance fleet. Source: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/via-...et-replacement

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by gcaven

They are looking to acquire "over 40" new locomotives and "over 300" passenger cars, which I believe is a significant expansion over the current long-distance fleet. Source: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/via-...et-replacement

Thanks for the update. That is positive news; however I don’t believe those numbers will support much in the way of service expansion. Via’s current in-service long distance fleet totals something around 316 cars. Mind you, new equipment should have a much higher level of availability and, depending on design and configuration, may have higher capacities. Obviously all will depend on how quickly government can run a procurement process and sign contracts. To imagine that can happen within the next year seems, shall we say, a bit optimistic. As I noted earlier, a similar process has been underway for Amtrak in the US since early 2023, with no contracts awarded yet.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

For the record, the two biggest groups of Via’s long-distance cars are the Budd-built stainless steel fleet manufactured in 1954-55 for CP and the British-built Renaissance fleet rebuilt by Via in 2002. There are some older late-40s to early-50s stainless steel cars that Via acquired from US railroads and rebuilt. These stainless cars are tanks and, according to Via, can last indefinitely. (Transport Canada-mandated testing last year confirmed this; ironically the testing itself resulted in the loss of several cars.)

An actual case of "they don't build 'em like they used to". Too bad that some had to be destroyed in order to test, but hopefully it means the old Budd cars can continue to remain in service for many decades. It sounds like any newer acquisitions will be a step down in terms of comfort and quality (and definitely appearance, IMHO).