Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[McC]

Lincoln Fields should be a near carbon copy of Pimisi, IMHO.

[J.OT13]

I don't understand the need for a bus loop and LF at all. I understand that they re-aligned the station to avoid the flood plain, but they could have left it under Carling with entrances on both ends (as McC suggested, near copy of Pimisi). That would have made for easier transfers and a more urban station configuration.

Now we have another station in a field with bus parking.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yeah, I don't see bus stop on Carling. The buses are totally doing the loop. I guess they only view buses as shuttles for LRT.

What's that private vehicle parking lot in the middle?
Is it for the station agents? Bus/train drivers?
Seems like such a waste.

[MountainView]

That S-curve is going to be super uncomfortable for passengers too. Why can't they use the further back platform for everything? Then the bus could immediately turn left and avoid that giant S-curve mess.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What's that private vehicle parking lot in the middle?
Is it for the station agents? Bus/train drivers?
Seems like such a waste.

Probably OC Transpo employees and agents/supervisors. Pretty ridiculous.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

And as you've pointed out, even if the 97 continues to service Lincoln Fields, the Lincoln Fields bus loop is super over-built. Its going to be another Hurdman (overly large bus loop with several platforms they don't use).

At least Hurdman is at the foot of the southern Transitway and will thus have many bus routes feeding into it for years to come. Lincoln Fields will only have whatever routes happen to travel along Carling, and that number is likely to diminish significantly.

I'm not sure why the designers at the City are incapable of fact-checking the requirements OC Transpo is giving them, because Lincoln Fields is being built as if there will be more bus traffic there after Stage 2 not drastically less as is the reality.

I suspect they are so busy planning the routes after Stage 1, no one has put much thought into what the system might look like after stage 2.

Originally Posted by McC

Lincoln Fields should be a near carbon copy of Pimisi, IMHO.

Agreed. There is no need for any bus to terminate at Lincoln Fields and it won't be the major transfer point it is today (except maybe LRT to LRT, since it is just before the split). Then again Pimisi should have had a bus loop so that buses can terminate there more easily. Cleary should also have a small bus loop for the 87.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Yes, Lincoln Fields is a fair paid zone; passengers from the bus loops have their own entrance, which is fenced off from non-passenger pedestrian traffic. And as you've pointed out, even if the 97 continues to service Lincoln Fields, the Lincoln Fields bus loop is super over-built. Its going to be another Hurdman (overly large bus loop with several platforms they don't use). I'm not sure why the designers at the City are incapable of fact-checking the requirements OC Transpo is giving them, because Lincoln Fields is being built as if there will be more bus traffic there after Stage 2 not drastically less as is the reality.

OC has set the requirements with an eye to future expansion. The far platforms at Hurdman are only potentially required post-2031.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What's that private vehicle parking lot in the middle?
Is it for the station agents? Bus/train drivers?
Seems like such a waste.

Probably a kiss and ride. Parking is needed for waiting for someone to arrive. Probably a 15 minute maximum.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Catenary

OC has set the requirements with an eye to future expansion. The far platforms at Hurdman are only potentially required post-2031.

Yes, Hurdman at least makes some sense as a SE Transitway terminus, and possible expansion of frequent routes to the east.

Lincoln Fields has very little hope of expanding transit service over today.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Yes, Hurdman at least makes some sense as a SE Transitway terminus, and possible expansion of frequent routes to the east.

Lincoln Fields has very little hope of expanding transit service over today.

You took the words out of my mouth, though Lincoln Fields is for busier today than it ever will be post Stage 2 LRT.

[SF Thomas]

Even for a bus loop, from that picture it looks way bigger than necessary. You could probably cut the size of it by a third simply from re-positioning the bus and car parking lots, straightening the bus S curve section and maybe moving the station a bit further back.

[J.OT13]

So these fare-paid bus loops, what will stop people from just walking through the bus zone and entering an O-Train Station without paying?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So these fare-paid bus loops, what will stop people from just walking through the bus zone and entering an O-Train Station without paying?

Likely only cameras. The same as they will have for preventing someone from hopping over a turnstile at any station.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Likely only cameras. The same as they will have for preventing someone from hopping over a turnstile at any station.

There is also a lot of fencing if you look closely at the renders.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

There is also a lot of fencing if you look closely at the renders.

I think the point is unless they have a secure gate that only buses will open (potentially unreliable with our winters), what is to prevent someone from walking through the bus entrance. I can't see anyone bothering to do that if they could just as easily jump over the fare gate. They are less likely to get caught doing that than they are wandering through the bus loop.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I think the point is unless they have a secure gate that only buses will open (potentially unreliable with our winters), what is to prevent someone from walking through the bus entrance. I can't see anyone bothering to do that if they could just as easily jump over the fare gate. They are less likely to get caught doing that than they are wandering through the bus loop.

Toronto has dozens of these facilities, and this is an issue there. Toronto's facilities are much smaller though, you're usually only a few paces between the public sidewalk and the fare-paid platform. Ottawa's facilities are much larger, and the bus entrances somewhat less convenient to walk through.

[1overcosc]

^ We're basically taking the whole fare-paid bus transfer concept from Toronto, so I'd be curious to see what they do to fix the problem.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Toronto has dozens of these facilities, and this is an issue there.

Don't most stations in Toronto have a ticket booth near the fare gates? This would discourage people from jumping the gate, making them look for an alternative.

Toronto's facilities are much smaller though, you're usually only a few paces between the public sidewalk and the fare-paid platform. Ottawa's facilities are much larger, and the bus entrances somewhat less convenient to walk through.

Ottawa is learning from Toronto's mistakes?

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Don't most stations in Toronto have a ticket booth near the fare gates? This would discourage people from jumping the gate, making them look for an alternative.

The issue being discussed isn't the gates, but rather the roads the buses use to enter the loop. People who walk in the bus entrance enter the fare paid area without passing a fare gate or staff.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day....

all remember.... Ottawa O-Train stations, and the fare-paid zones, are all unattended.
No fare booths, no ticket-takers, no attendants, no staff.
All will be observed by camera only, and any enforcement will be by call-up to either the Transit Special Constables or Ottawa Police,
as is presently, and always has been, the case on the Trillium Line.
IE: and as I have pointed out previously, a HUGE overall and continuing security problem.

NoJoy!