General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[biggus diggus]

You probably remember when one of my apartments caught fire right around Christmas 2016 (maybe 17 idk) and we all thought it was arson as a result of a drug dispute.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by xymox

That's not really NW PHX - that's 'west central' or just 'west' if you look at city boundaries...

But yeah - Trulia shows a lot around 1200-1600sq ft in 220-260k range. And again - you will probably want to put money into them. Once you cross the magical boundary into Glendale prices jump north of 300k - especially around Marshall Ranch.

Finding homes in that price range in the central core is quite a challenge, but possible. Finding prices in that range in a 'nice' part of town is almost impossible.

I would definitely consider 43rd ave and Thunderbird Northwest Phoenix too. Basically anything north of Northern should be considered North Phoenix. Anything north of the 101 should be considered Far North Phoenix. My parents live around 17 and Carefree and I hate driving up there. I’m from arrowhead in Glendale and my bros live over there still and I hate going out there and My office is around the 101 and 17 but I work from home for the most part. No character and just cookie cutter homes that was basically made fun of in the Arizona Movie that just came out on Cinemax. Check it out everyone, crazy movie about the mortgage crisis with that Eastbound and Down guy. Anyway, most people don’t even realize they are in Phoenix when you are north of the 101, just a bunch of retail/restaurant chains, stucco and tile roofs, ugggghhh. But that’s Phoenix for you, thankfully it’s changing a lot, at least in the core.

[soled]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

You probably remember when one of my apartments caught fire right around Christmas 2016 (maybe 17 idk) and we all thought it was arson as a result of a drug dispute.

This area is active enough that I'd have to be reminded of a date and address to recall if I was there and on duty that day. It was at least contained to a contents fire, I hope. Little structural damage, I mean.

[biggus diggus]

It was 12/16 at 3600 e verde

[soled]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

It was 12/16 at 3600 e verde

I'm sorry, I wasn't on shift on that date in 2016, nor 2017.

[SunDevil]

You guys aren't wrong. But, it's not like there are police copters hovering overhead all night, every night, or sirens running constantly. I have never had a problem here that I also didn't run into when I lived near 7th Ave and Greenway. It's a weird area because west of 36th St. the housing is cheaper, more packed in, and is closer to $200k and less depending on how close you want to live to the 51; and east of 40th st. the lots are bigger, better kept, and houses are like 350,000 to 400,000. Just saying it's a cheaper option that isn't on the outskirts of the metro. Plus you never know what you'll see at the Fry's on 30th and Thomas. lol

As for travel on Thomas, ~12 minute commute to work at Central and Osborn and also back home during rush hour and no need to worry about traffic jams on the highway or accidents since I can just take the street grid around it.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

You guys aren't wrong. But, it's not like there are police copters hovering overhead all night, every night, or sirens running constantly. I have never had a problem here that I also didn't run into when I lived near 7th Ave and Greenway. It's a weird area because west of 36th St. the housing is cheaper, more packed in, and is closer to $200k and less depending on how close you want to live to the 51; and east of 40th st. the lots are bigger, better kept, and houses are like 350,000 to 400,000. Just saying it's a cheaper option that isn't on the outskirts of the metro. Plus you never know what you'll see at the Fry's on 30th and Thomas. lol

As for travel on Thomas, ~12 minute commute to work at Central and Osborn and also back home during rush hour and no need to worry about traffic jams on the highway or accidents since I can just take the street grid around it.

This is mostly true SOUTH of Thomas - I live at 24th and Earll and yes they are smaller houses (older too) and on smaller lots than east of 36th but even west of 36th you'd be challenged to find a decent house under 200k - it's either be a condo, tiny, a blue-collar remodel replete with added stucco pop-outs around the windows and funky additions or a total shithole. The home across from me sold for 198k and was TORN DOWN and a brand new 2400 square foot monstrosity put in it's place. This was done right around the corner from us as well and that home sold for 530k.

If it's a nice home over 2,000 square feet in a decent neighborhood in Central Phoenix it's going to cost you at least in the very high 300s but likely more especially if it's a neighborhood with any character.

Just my observation - I purchased for a steal during 2011 and just doubled my livable square footage with an addition and remodel but you would never know from the street - we completely preserved our 1948 ranch street presence.

That being said - I do not EVER receive packages at our house though and I'm always double-sure to lock all doors etc - it's the central city with a lot of unusual shit going on - my mother lives by 20th and Missouri right by the Biltmore and the same crazy shit happens in her neighborhood that I read about on Nextdoor in my own

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

This is mostly true SOUTH of Thomas - I live at 24th and Earll and yes they are smaller houses (older too) and on smaller lots than east of 36th but even west of 36th you'd be challenged to find a decent house under 200k - it's either be a condo, tiny, a blue-collar remodel replete with added stucco pop-outs around the windows and funky additions or a total shithole. The home across from me sold for 198k and was TORN DOWN and a brand new 2400 square foot monstrosity put in it's place. This was done right around the corner from us as well and that home sold for 530k.

If it's a nice home over 2,000 square feet in a decent neighborhood in Central Phoenix it's going to cost you at least in the very high 300s but likely more especially if it's a neighborhood with any character.

Just my observation - I purchased for a steal during 2011 and just doubled my livable square footage with an addition and remodel but you would never know from the street - we completely preserved our 1948 ranch street presence.

That being said - I do not EVER receive packages at our house though and I'm always double-sure to lock all doors etc - it's the central city with a lot of unusual shit going on - my mother lives by 20th and Missouri right by the Biltmore and the same crazy shit happens in her neighborhood that I read about on Nextdoor in my own

Yeah, north of Thomas is definitely at a premium compared to south of Thomas (where I am). Looks like even south of Thomas around 30th street is 200k+ these days.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Yeah, north of Thomas is definitely at a premium compared to south of Thomas (where I am). Looks like even south of Thomas around 30th street is 200k+ these days.

Yeah I would bet that the entirety of Arcadia/Camelback east north of the 202 will get gentrified in the coming decade or so,

Same thing with basically all central phoenix neighborhoods north of downtown and east of the i-17. The last to go will be the area between the airport and the 202 which is extremely blighted.

But this is simply a function of density and desirability, The city isnt growing outward as fast as it once did and there is now demand for proximity especially in the central metro region which I define:

Uptown/Sunny slope-------------South Scottsdale
! !
! !
! !
! !
Downtown------------------------Tempe/Mill Ave

[exit2lef]

"From the Rockies to the Pacific, cities are seeking to accommodate increasing populations amid housing shortages by growing up instead of out."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.7677c95c12f6

The article focuses a lot on Denver but also mentions Seattle and even Sacramento. Sadly, Phoenix is not mentioned, but at this point, it shouldn't be. We've got a lot of good development going on, but it will take something higher than the Chase Tower to have Phoenix recognized for its skyline.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

"From the Rockies to the Pacific, cities are seeking to accommodate increasing populations amid housing shortages by growing up instead of out."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.7677c95c12f6

The article focuses a lot on Denver but also mentions Seattle and even Sacramento. Sadly, Phoenix is not mentioned, but at this point, it shouldn't be. We've got a lot of good development going on, but it will take something higher than the Chase Tower to have Phoenix recognized for its skyline.

Even so, Sacramento doesn't have towers as tall as Phoenix and nowhere near as many over the 300' mark (we currently have double theirs). Even though they are in the process of a 550' tower, it's still in the planning phases and only 1 project when we have several towers going up or soon to go up. Not sure why they get praise and we don't. But I agree, Phoenix will never get recognized for it's skyline until we break that 492' mark. I'm still confident we will get a new tallest though. Let's go Miami developer!

Edit: Just read the article. I'm more insulted over Long Beach getting a mention than Sacramento.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Even so, Sacramento doesn't have towers as tall as Phoenix and nowhere near as many over the 300' mark (we currently have double theirs). Even though they are in the process of a 550' tower, it's still in the planning phases and only 1 project when we have several towers going up or soon to go up. Not sure why they get praise and we don't. But I agree, Phoenix will never get recognized for it's skyline until we break that 492' mark. I'm still confident we will get a new tallest though. Let's go Miami developer!

Edit: Just read the article. I'm more insulted over Long Beach getting a mention than Sacramento.

Eh - while I’m all for more density & building up downtown and in other cores - the economics need and demand need to make sense. Just need some more time/momentum for downtown to blossom. If Park Central can gather some steam and put up those 700ft towers...

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

"From the Rockies to the Pacific, cities are seeking to accommodate increasing populations amid housing shortages by growing up instead of out."

The article focuses a lot on Denver but also mentions Seattle and even Sacramento. Sadly, Phoenix is not mentioned, but at this point, it shouldn't be. We've got a lot of good development going on, but it will take something higher than the Chase Tower to have Phoenix recognized for its skyline.

Decided to give that article a read; I had heard about it. That new tallest that's sketched in is very dated news from some New Yorker's pipe dream with a thin track record that died last year.

In any case, it's not really about going tall; it's all the infill that has happened; there's also increasing pushback from NIMBY-ism bubbling up. If you like vertical development then look to Seattle and Austin. They're the high class areas. Denver, not unlike Phoenix isn't seeing much interest from the likes of the Apple's, Google's and Facebook's etc, at least not in a big way like Austin is. Google just reserved a new 35-story tower by Hines that hasn't even broken ground yet. Facebook has reserved all of a 17-story tower under construction. Apple recently announced a $1 billion development.

If you want to think in terms of trend lines that Phoenix might follow, if you go back a decade it started with 4-story Texas donuts. Soon podiums were included with projects being 6 stories, then 6-8, 8-10, 10-12 an so on. Lennar finally found their way into central Denver with a 5-story that's near completion. Their other project is half-block 18-story land barge in Five Points, an historical but previously blighted area.

Interestingly, downtown Phoenix seems to have almost as much vertical development (when you include the pipeline) as Denver.

Originally Posted by Obadno

The last to go will be the area between the airport and the 202 which is extremely blighted.

The biggest advantage to blighted and now would be prime time for land bankers to start accumulating half and full blocks, is it's much easier to flip once it starts. That area does have good bones, including light rail.

[Obadno]

We never get mentioned or talked about in anything about anything.

Always skipped over for smaller cities, whatever its just the perception I guess.

Its fine Id rather not be Overhyped like Denver and Austin

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Obadno

We never get mentioned or talked about in anything about anything.

Always skipped over for smaller cities, whatever its just the perception I guess.

Its fine Id rather not be Overhyped like Denver and Austin

Downtown Phoenix still lacks for healthy office space demand and has to competes with Tempe and Scottsdale. Most downtowns don't have that.

It wasn't that long ago that Mid-town was half vacant so it was important to get rid of that overhang. Lots of progress. Now if it will accelerate from here... real estate development sometimes seems slow as it happens over 5-10 years at a a time but you can feel it building momentum.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Downtown Phoenix still lacks for healthy office space demand and has to competes with Tempe and Scottsdale. Most downtowns don't have that.

Every downtown competes with business districts around the metro. You're telling me downtown LA doesn't compete with Century City? downtown Denver doesn't compete with Tech Center?

Just because Tempe and Scottsdale are technically different cities doesn't mean it's a completely different concept.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Downtown Phoenix still lacks for healthy office space demand and has to competes with Tempe and Scottsdale. Most downtowns don't have that.

Huh? LA has Culver City and its western suburbs competing. SF has the Peninsula.

Inner ring suburbs have more space for cheap, abundantly-parked large floorplate buildings which developers want to build on instead of compact downtown blocks. They're urban "enough" and often feature transit connections.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Every downtown competes with business districts around the metro. You're telling me downtown LA doesn't compete with Century City? downtown Denver doesn't compete with Tech Center?

Just because Tempe and Scottsdale are technically different cities doesn't mean it's a completely different concept.

Yes and No. Ofc, there will be other sites, this is certainly true in Austin. With Seattle especially and Denver, competition isn't meaningful. Many companies are now moving from the Tech Center into downtown although certainly the DTC it's still a solid area.

If you want to see downtown Phoenix, Tempe and Scottsdale as three heads of a triangle that makes sense to me. I was speaking specifically about downtown Phoenix.

[mdpx]

Originally Posted by xymox

Eh - while I’m all for more density & building up downtown and in other cores - the economics need and demand need to make sense. Just need some more time/momentum for downtown to blossom. If Park Central can gather some steam and put up those 700ft towers...

There's no appetite for building offices in Midtown for some time, you and I will be dead 50 years before 700 ft. towers get built. 70' ft. buildings are more like it.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by Obadno

We never get mentioned or talked about in anything about anything.

Always skipped over for smaller cities, whatever its just the perception I guess.

Its fine Id rather not be Overhyped like Denver and Austin

Guys, who cares? Why feel bad about the fact that others are not noticing our tremendous growth downtown? Fuck 'em. You have to admit its been cool as hell seeing all this development, density, housing, retail and people flooding to downtown. It's been phenomenal. It has hit that proverbial tipping point several years ago and now all kinds of projects will be needed. It's an exciting time for us and we shouldn't diminish it. At some point, some one will "discover" how cool it's become and tell us of their new find. We'll already be in on it.