Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[zalf]

What's more, an engineer on the BRT project told me that the system was purposefully designed to be easily upgradable to LRT.

[bomberjet]

The design followed the City manual for LRT conversion. Which set the max grades and widths. But I'd like to know the definition of easily. Because it wouldn't be super easy.

[borkborkbork]

One of the small less appreciated elements of having a BRT transitway vs. LRT is that it provides a fast way of deploying buses, service vehicles, supervisors, etc. from the transit garage to the downtown core. That is, it contributes to the reliability of the bus system even outside of the routes that actually use the busway.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

One of the small less appreciated elements of having a BRT transitway vs. LRT is that it provides a fast way of deploying buses, service vehicles, supervisors, etc. from the transit garage to the downtown core. That is, it contributes to the reliability of the bus system even outside of the routes that actually use the busway.

Never considered this!

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by CoryB

In Winnipeg dares to say New Flyer, remember HQ is here and their products are made here, isn't good enough for the Winnipeg the Preimer and Mayor better heads over to the New Flyer plant in Transcona to personally hand out layoff notices to the estimated 8000 people that company employees. (Yes not all are Winnipeg based). To move away from New Flyer transit buses locally sends a strong single to every other jurisdiction looking to purchase their own public transit vehicles that they too should take New Flyer off their list. Also since when is it okay for our governments to say to a large local employer we don't want your product but will instead spend the tax dollars from your company and your employees on buying products from an out of province competitor?

So growth and progress of cities should only be tied to industries present in them? Seems like a very logical point.

Maybe we should try paving our roads in rendered hog fat?

[thebasketballgeek]

Oh man nothing gets me more excited then seeing the bus frequencies significantly increase once labor day passes by.

The Blue line hasn't been truly tested yet. However, starting from now we get too see just how much of an impact University students make on ridership numbers. With the current headways they run to U of M at 8 minutes. I think these busses will be overcrowded right from the get go at that frequency. Although loving the 5 minute headways on Chancellor Station to DT.

Another note is I finally have decent bus service again. My main stop is the entrance of Bridgwater Forest and I counted 14 busses/hour during rush hour split between the 676, 693 and 74 which is the most I've had since living on Roslyn. I won’t even have to look at the schedule anymore during rush hour and that’s a godsend. 12 minute headways for 74, 20 minutes for 693, and 10 minute headways for 676. Non-rush hour is still garbage but I won't complain too much. Just hearing the amount of busses zooming past my house puts a smile on my face.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Oh man nothing gets me more excited then seeing the bus frequencies significantly increase once labor day passes by.

The Blue line hasn't been truly tested yet. However, starting from now we get too see just how much of an impact University students make on ridership numbers. With the current headways they run to U of M at 8 minutes. I think these busses will be overcrowded right from the get go at that frequency. Although loving the 5 minute headways on Chancellor Station to DT.

Another note is I finally have decent bus service again. My main stop is the entrance of Bridgwater Forest and I counted 14 busses/hour during rush hour split between the 676, 693 and 74 which is the most I've had since living on Roslyn. I won’t even have to look at the schedule anymore during rush hour and that’s a godsend. 12 minute headways for 74, 20 minutes for 693, and 10 minute headways for 676. Non-rush hour is still garbage but I won't complain too much. Just hearing the amount of busses zooming past my house puts a smile on my face.

I don't understand why the Blue is being run as half St Norbert and half U of M. As soon as school starts we're going to see half the southbound Blue line packed to the gills and half running empty. They need to increase the UM blue frequency and (if it has to be zero sum) reduce the St Norbert blue frequency

[(sub)urban]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

I don't understand why the Blue is being run as half St Norbert and half U of M. As soon as school starts we're going to see half the southbound Blue line packed to the gills and half running empty. They need to increase the UM blue frequency and (if it has to be zero sum) reduce the St Norbert blue frequency

It should be like a 70/30 split even during the summers. I couldn't believe how hard it was to bus to Bomber games over the summer. Miss one bus and suddenly the next bus isn't for another 20 minutes, which means you miss the connecting bus and next thing you know you miss the first quarter.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by (sub)urban

It should be like a 70/30 split even during the summers. I couldn't believe how hard it was to bus to Bomber games over the summer. Miss one bus and suddenly the next bus isn't for another 20 minutes, which means you miss the connecting bus and next thing you know you miss the first quarter.

I think the Bombers paid for extra free of charge (for ticketholders) SWBRT service the first few year at IG Field IIRC, but now it's just down to the park and ride routes... beyond that it's just regular service? Might not be that ideal for those relying on regular blue line service to get downtown, as compared to years ago when there were a pile of blue line buses waiting at the station after the game.

Interestingly, from what I can observe, bike ridership to games has exploded in the past few years since the extra bus service was scaled back. There are now probably into the thousands of bikes at the bike valet at every game where the weather is decent.

On that note, I think that traffic issues to Bomber games have really sorted themselves out after a rough first few years at IG Field. From what I can tell, a combination of more transit and AT usage and an earlier arriving crowd have led to less congestion. Although that said, it is unfortunate that University Crescent has been subject to major construction for two years running now.

[bomberjet]

I don't remember the school buses ever going on the BRT. Well at least from the east P&R's I've ridden on. It's just been park and rides and regular service far as I could tell.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I don't remember the school buses ever going on the BRT. Well at least from the east P&R's I've ridden on. It's just been park and rides and regular service far as I could tell.

The Bombers used to pay for extra transit service but they stopped doing that before the pandemic.

[bomberjet]

Ohh, right.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I think the Bombers paid for extra free of charge (for ticketholders) SWBRT service the first few year at IG Field IIRC, but now it's just down to the park and ride routes... beyond that it's just regular service? Might not be that ideal for those relying on regular blue line service to get downtown, as compared to years ago when there were a pile of blue line buses waiting at the station after the game.

I do not know the full details of what happened with the added Winnipeg Transit service for Bomber games. I do know IG Field opened in 2013 under a NDP government which became a PC government in 2016. There also seemed to be a dispute between the Bombers and Transit over the cost of the service. I know before the move to IG Field transit operators would run service to the games and then have free admission to watch the game until service started towards the end of the fourth quarter.

Originally Posted by esquire

On that note, I think that traffic issues to Bomber games have really sorted themselves out after a rough first few years at IG Field. From what I can tell, a combination of more transit and AT usage and an earlier arriving crowd have led to less congestion. Although that said, it is unfortunate that University Crescent has been subject to major construction for two years running now.

The road construction issues definitely factor into things as well. That was actually part of the initial issues with the location as well + the lack of the dedicated transit route out of U of M. The road for buses from IG Field to Pembina alone made a big difference.

[esquire]

^ Yes, that's true - the opening of the station really improved things. Before all the buses would fill Chancellor Matheson and it could take quite a while to make it out on to Pembina.

[buzzg]

I can speak to the issues with the Bomber busses as I take Blue Line there (used to take Grant Park P&R).

Nearly all the additional Blue busses (called X-Blue) for games are specifically park and ride busses, replacing GP, which start at Seel or Clarence. They have loaded up on busses for people who drive to the bus. Unfortunately they only added an extremely small handful of X-Blue busses that start north of the park and rides.

Essentially they supplemented with at most 1 single X-Blue U of M bus approximately aligned with St. Norbert busses. So all summer you’d get a Blue U of M every 20 minutes (always full by the time it got to me at Osborne Station, so it wouldn’t stop), and sometimes an extra would come by. Not sure where it would start but likely Balmoral. Literally dozens of out of service busses, including articulated Blue lines, would pass Osborne and go wait at Seel/Clarence without picking people up at any of the other 5 true RT stations on the way.

It’s been ridiculous. Amazing service for games – if you start in a car. It seems like a lot of ppl from NE Winnipeg actually just take RT instead of the KP P&R. Probably faster. And most of the Seel/Clarence busses take off with like 12 people on them cuz they have dozens ready to go.

Last time I just took a Blue St. Norbert to Seel and transferred to X-Blue there cuz I would’ve missed kickoff otherwise - I waited at Osborne for 25 minutes. So that wasn’t a bad option but so many people who take that bus for the games don’t ever take Transit otherwise and were really nervous about doing that.

Transit wants to increase ridership yet they make things as difficult as possible for new people to figure out. It’s preposterous.

Oh also - the X-Blue busses don’t announce stops on the screens or speakers, every time on the way back people miss their stops cuz they can’t tell where they are on the Transitway.

ALSO, while the park and ride busses are a well oiled machine, not having preboarding payment and multi door boarding makes the transit busses miserable after the game as people count their change. Most drivers are just saying F it now and telling people to just get on.

ONE LAST POINT, it’s funny. On Google Maps it shows the SB Blue on street from downtown to Fort Rouge lol. When it told transit they said download their app. Idiots.

[thebasketballgeek]

Has anyone else had the misfortune of riding the blue line lately?

Let me put it this way the line is still a failure except it’s because each bus that goes to U of M is insanely overcrowded. My dad works at transit and all the experienced bus drivers are avoiding that line like the plague when scheduling occurs. I don’t even bother taking the blue line and just use the 47 instead because there is seriously no breathing room. In fact when I was coming back from a studio trip at the Forks to U of M my friends and I were at the Main/Assiniboine bus stop and the Blue line didn’t even stop at our station because the bus already filled out (standing room and everything) by the time it reached Union Station. It didn’t even reach the actual Transitway before it reached max capacity isn’t that absolutely bonkers?

Let me remind y’all that this is considering that the new builds on Refinery District are not even connected to Plaza Station, the Fort Rouge TOD is only halfway completed, and the Parker Lands TOD is nonexistent. So these numbers are happening without accounting for thousands of future riders that will utilize this line.

So just as I expected we are simply too big of a city to further pursue BRT and need to start LRT conversion ASAP. The only reason these higher ridership numbers didn’t happen earlier was entirely due to Covid. If we are too build BRT on Main and Portage I would expect similar overcrowding instantly.

So while it’s great that the BRT is seeing these huge numbers and proving many of the posters here wrong about its viability, it has unfortunately worked too well to the point where it’s basically unrideable if you’re carrying anything more then a backpack. I think the city and a lot of the residents have severely underestimated just how many university students take the bus. Especially with the huge increase of international students who predominantly use transit as their main method of transportation.

Idk what do y’all think am I overreacting or is this reason #637473 why this city needs rail transit?

[zalf]

I haven't ridden the Blue since before classes resumed, but what you're describing sounds very much how I remember the old 61 from my undergraduate days. Cheek-to-jowl in there, with occasional pass-ups because the buses were at maximum capacity.

[peg]

^ 100% agree BG.

I rode the blue line over the summer to UM for work, and the ride was a breeze. It was not very crowded and the frequency was pretty good.

Going back to school this fall and taking the Blue daily for the last few weeks has been more like the days of the 161 or 160, but a little faster... I have been lucky enough to get on early enough to grab a seat most days. But I see the bus fill up all too fast, and pass by crowds of people.

They need to add frequency now... and look to see how they can improve upon this massive multi-decade investment. I agree that the best long-term option is LTR and that we shouldn't fiddle around trying to avoid it any longer.

Also, why has the city not introduced the new Transit Master Plan and its altered routes? Is this in the legislative or planning works still, or is this stalled? The masterplan sounds like a great start to sorting this out... so let's get going already WT.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by zalf

I haven't ridden the Blue since before classes resumed, but what you're describing sounds very much how I remember the old 61 from my undergraduate days. Cheek-to-jowl in there, with occasional pass-ups because the buses were at maximum capacity.

Yea isn't the struggle on the scheduling piece, where if transit were to plunk more drivers and busses for that 830/930 class start time there would be way too much capacity that is being underused before and after those times? Driver retention is tough right now and split shifts aren't popular.

LRT could alleviate that, even if it were operated by a driver and not automated. One driver, several hundred seats regardless of usage.

Until then, if the Blue Line routes going to St Norbert aren't really full they should divert some of that capacity to U of M Blue routes

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Yea isn't the struggle on the scheduling piece, where if transit were to plunk more drivers and busses for that 830/930 class start time there would be way too much capacity that is being underused before and after those times? Driver retention is tough right now and split shifts aren't popular.

LRT could alleviate that, even if it were operated by a driver and not automated. One driver, several hundred seats regardless of usage.

Until then, if the Blue Line routes going to St Norbert aren't really full they should divert some of that capacity to U of M Blue routes

If the city starts building the overpass to Union Station and converting the BRT line to LRT, my faith in Winnipeg will be restored.