Federal Government & Politics II

[Truenorth00]

We can also move this discussion to a more local level. How many Canadians are worried about a population collapse in Canada? Any of you here?

But it's always inevitably a discussion point brought up by some Bitcoin bro who thinks techbro wisdom is universal (and of course is clueless about context and history of the principal proponents).

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

So, you are effectively arguing that we should sympathize with those that perpetuate violence, not the victims of violence?

No matter how much you disagree with government policies, and no matter how much you are angry about the implications of these policies, never does this warrant violence. In a democracy, change is made at the ballot box, not by vigilante mobs. Full stop.

What is it about diversity that you dislike? Bear in mind that this forum is comprised of many visible minorities.

I find your perspective highly disturbing. And there is absolutely nothing funny about it.

I completely agree.

I have been a very vocal critic of the number of immigrants being allowed into the country but there is absolutely no excuse for violence, absolutely none.

These people are not trying to make a point in a democratic way but are simply violent people that have found a convenient excuse for their violence.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

So, you are effectively arguing that we should sympathize with those that perpetuate violence, not the victims of violence?

No matter how much you disagree with government policies, and no matter how much you are angry about the implications of these policies, never does this warrant violence. In a democracy, change is made at the ballot box, not by vigilante mobs. Full stop.

What is it about diversity that you dislike? Bear in mind that this forum is comprised of many visible minorities.

I find your perspective highly disturbing. And there is absolutely nothing funny about it.

Privilege is being able to sympathize with violent perpetrators without ever having to imagine that you or somebody you care about might be a victim.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

We can also move this discussion to a more local level. How many Canadians are worried about a population collapse in Canada? Any of you here?

But it's always inevitably a discussion point brought up by some Bitcoin bro who thinks techbro wisdom is universal (and of course is clueless about context and history of the principal proponents).

Eventual population collapse is actually evoked all the time in Canada. Not to evoke the urgency of a baby boom on the part of white Canadian women, but to justify high population intake from abroad.

Not sure if I am reading you right here, though.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

We can also move this discussion to a more local level. How many Canadians are worried about a population collapse in Canada? Any of you here?

But it's always inevitably a discussion point brought up by some Bitcoin bro who thinks techbro wisdom is universal (and of course is clueless about context and history of the principal proponents).

Don’t confuse the tech bros being wrong about the solution with the tech bros being wrong about the problem. As populations collapse in East Asia and East/South Europe the global pool of skilled and/or educated immigrants is going to dry up, making it harder to address our own demographic problems.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Eventual population collapse is actually evoked all the time in Canada. Not to evoke the urgency of a baby boom on the part of white Canadian women, but to justify high population intake from abroad.

Something that should make you suspicious of this rhetoric....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Don’t confuse the tech bros being wrong about the solution with the tech bros being wrong about the problem. As populations collapse in East Asia and East/South Europe the global pool of skilled and/or educated immigrants is going to dry up, making it harder to address our own demographic problems.

Heaven forbid we have to raise and educate our own.

Incidentally, East Asia got to where they are exactly because of the kind of insane work lifestyle tech bros want for all their employees.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Something that should make you suspicious of this rhetoric....

Not sure I follow. (It's me, I know!)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Heaven forbid we have to raise and educate our own.

Yes, that’s the problem. With a 1.4 fertility rate and fewer sources of immigration we will struggle to avoid significant depopulation.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, that’s the problem. With a 1.4 fertility rate and fewer sources of immigration we will struggle to avoid significant depopulation.

Indeed. You know what's not going to help that? Attacking childless women and suggesting they be taxed extra, as the Republican Vice Presidential nominee has recently done. This shit doesn't come out of the blue. Only the techbro-incel nexus thinks of this shit.

Like I said, they aren't really pro-fertility. Just committed fans of the Handmaiden's Tale.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Build.It

So much more peaceful

Do you like open discussions or not?

Are you open to your views being questioned or not?

At some point if you are putting multiple posters on ignore, your time is better spent elsewhere.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Except now we have a lot more tools to cope with declining populations. We no longer need just masses of warm bodies to do a lot of tasks. In relation to your first point, declining populations may be just what the doctor ordered to really mitigate climate change.

Yeah the earth could be a lot more stable with significantly less people on it consuming resources.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, that’s the problem. With a 1.4 fertility rate and fewer sources of immigration we will struggle to avoid significant depopulation.

When? 2100? 2200?

I can't believe people are simultaneously trying to make these points while complaining that immigration is out of control.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

When? 2100? 2200?

I can't believe people are simultaneously trying to make these points while complaining that immigration is out of control.

There's a lot of middle ground between no immigration/insufficient fertility and 3.2% population growth with no perceivable strategy to deal with the externalities.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

There's a lot of middle ground between no immigration/insufficient fertility and 3.2% population growth with no perceivable strategy to deal with the externalities.

Yes, absolutely. Population decline is way, way, way down the list of concerns for Canada in 2024.

[1overcosc]

The correct answer is, IMO, a slowly declining population and a slowly aging population. We absolutely can adapt our economy to this reality and if anything automation and AI will actually make a declining workforce participation rate a good thing. Immigration policy should stop being about trying to artificially create a demographic youth bulge and instead be about trying to raise our productivity. That means something a lot more like our pre-2015 immigration policy, but with more emphasis on actually getting skilled workers that are needed to grow the economy (the old system was pretty good overall but it focused a bit too much on educational attainment instead of actual Canadian-employable skills, hence why we kept getting the "doctors driving cabs" problem).

We need to start thinking in the 21st century. Immigration is about to become zero-sum globally. It will get harder to attract skilled workers in the future. In the coming decades it will become a lot more important to have homegrown skilled workers as we might not be able to get them from overseas anymore.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

When? 2100? 2200?

I can't believe people are simultaneously trying to make these points while complaining that immigration is out of control.

Two things can be true at the same time. It is both true that we need more immigration over the next century and that letting in millions of unskilled, uneducated workers over a very short period of time was incredibly stupid.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Indeed. You know what's not going to help that? Attacking childless women and suggesting they be taxed extra, as the Republican Vice Presidential nominee has recently done. This shit doesn't come out of the blue. Only the techbro-incel nexus thinks of this shit.

Like I said, they aren't really pro-fertility. Just committed fans of the Handmaiden's Tale.

Yes, which is why I made the point that criticizing their proposed response does not mean their identification of the problem is wrong.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Eventual population collapse is actually evoked all the time in Canada. Not to evoke the urgency of a baby boom on the part of white Canadian women, but to justify high population intake from abroad.

Not sure if I am reading you right here, though.

Gosh I hope it doesn’t collapse to half of what is now. You know, when families could afford a new house with just one income.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Gosh I hope it doesn’t collapse to half of what is now. You know, when families could afford a new house with just one income.

Korea and Japan are the case studies to show that even when fertility drops the major cities do not depopulate; It's the countryside that depopulates. Seoul and Tokyo continue to grow as the countryside (where housing has always been affordable) completely withers and dies.

Population reduction is not the solution to big city housing prices, I'm afraid. It's never that simple.