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  #961  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Snark View Post
50 years ago, the publicly elected representatives set policy and made high-level decisions. Staff then took that direction and converted it into action. If you didn't like it, you voted for someone else in the next election who would set different policy that was closer to your liking. Today, we have multiple public input sessions, environmental assessment processes for just about anything, a media process that can give a voice that is far disproportionate to the size of the opinion holders, and a political class that thinks astoundingly short-term and is cripplingly risk-adverse. First result: any group who is against anything can now hold up or kill an initiative because in their opinion it's a bad thing. Second result: things that need to happen get delayed, end up costing more, or just don't happen at all. Expert opinion and product is disregarded in favor of the wants of local know-it-alls and NIMBYS. What was referred to earlier as those "busy body cluckers" now have a voice - and a bigger one than they ought to. Third result: decision makers spend inordinate time on and become bogged down in relatively small matters such a garbage collection cycles or whether a tree should be cut down on some street instead of focusing on truly important strategic development and decision making. This little issue with sidewalks is a representative microcosm of a much larger problem: if staff and council spend more than 5 minutes on this matter instead of trying to grow and improve a city, it's too much effort. Yet that's what is going to happen with this and hundreds of other issues that would have been considered small stuff not worth sweating in the past.

Big issues such as rapid transit, intensification, what sort of public amenities should be provided, environmental issues, limiting urban sprawl, urban design standards, etc. rapidly become mired in discord and strife these days because everyone, and I mean everyone must have a voice in the process. Many such initiatives die a slow stillborn death as a result, or are watered down to the point of being ineffectual. To give but one quick example: can anyone imagine trying to get highway 401 constructed in today's environment?

Other countries don't have such processes, and things move at a relatively astounding speed as a result. New rapid system for our city? Decided and constructed. Need a new downtown? Decided and constructed. Want a dam for tourist and recreational use? Decided and constructed. Sidewalks on both sides of the street everywhere? Decided and constructed.

Most of those countries however are far less transparent, democratic, or sensitive to the wants and needs of the minority. They're also outpacing us at an alarming rate - in part because of that. So, in the end, it begs the question: can there be too much transparency? Too much democracy? Too much public input and control of the process?
When you try to please everyone, you please no one except for a tiny vocal minority. That was also the crux of the food truck issue; the opposition has been limited to a very small number of business owners but they've been given a voice disproportionate to the rest of the city. Last year's initial defeat of the food truck proposal likely pleased only 10 Londoners and angered 366,141 others, but those 10 were very loud.
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  #962  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 5:39 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
I do seriously wonder if real estate agents that sell homes even bother talking about the Official Plan as it relates to the area surrounding the homes they sell.
You don’t need to wonder: very few do, ever. For most, it’s not on their radar, I would imagine partly because it’s not on their buyers’ radar: even if they themselves are buying a relatively new home on what was recently agricultural land, I bet many assume that everything around them will stay the same, forever. Like you say, many many people are terribly ignorant of the plans for their neighbourhood. That’s a shame because there’s a lot of opportunity to input to those plans, provided the input is made when it is sought, and not when you finally notice the plan being implemented.

I think that the problems that Snark’s identifying can largely be solved by getting more people involved at the appropriate stages of the planning process. I don’t think we’re going to turn back the clock on “transparency” and “consultation” (although the pendulum may eventually naturally swing the other way, to continue with the metaphor). The way I see it right now is that it is a very small group of “the usual suspects” who sit on every committee that is struck to discuss and consult about every issue, and who will usually reach the same type of conclusion; and other groups who pay no attention to any kind of consultative process and waits until the sidewalk is going in to call up their friend of a friend who works at the newspaper to complain about how “no one” wants this. The trick would be to get this latter group involved earlier, if for no other reason so they can begin to understand how complicated some of these issues are, and how important it is not to waste staff and others’ time with whether or not Ms. Schmidt “wants” a sidewalk.

That, or stop fetishizing notions like “consultation” and understand that they are not the be-all-and-end-all. I have no confidence that that is going to happen: with each year, there is more lip service paid to making sure everyone is heard, whether they make an effort to be, or not. New mechanisms for getting input (from the same old people as before in my opinion, I might add) are conjured up, like “participatory budgeting,” and “charrettes.” It just gets worse, not better, and I really argue whether more people are “engaged” at stages of the process where their opinions can be incorporated.
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  #963  
Old Posted May 7, 2015, 1:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues View Post
You don’t need to wonder: very few do, ever. For most, it’s not on their radar, I would imagine partly because it’s not on their buyers’ radar: even if they themselves are buying a relatively new home on what was recently agricultural land, I bet many assume that everything around them will stay the same, forever. Like you say, many many people are terribly ignorant of the plans for their neighbourhood. That’s a shame because there’s a lot of opportunity to input to those plans, provided the input is made when it is sought, and not when you finally notice the plan being implemented.
In some cases it would be reasonable to assume things will stay the same. When my parents bought their home, it was close to the pre-1993 city limits, and annexation of Westminster Township was not really on the radar yet. Nobody back then would have foreseen annexation and then development of what was active farmland. In that case, the appropriate stage of the planning process was during the Vision '96 consultations, as that was when a lot of the planning towards what is being built now in the former Westminster Township was taking place.
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  #964  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 2:21 PM
captainwacky captainwacky is offline
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Don't know if anyone's noticed, but the houses at 55 and 57 Wharncliffe Road at Stanley were demolished in April.

https://goo.gl/maps/3AJ9E

Always knew they'd have to come down to eventually widen the CN subway at Horton, but it's interesting they've done it now.
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  #965  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 6:27 PM
MrSlippery519 MrSlippery519 is offline
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Originally Posted by captainwacky View Post
Don't know if anyone's noticed, but the houses at 55 and 57 Wharncliffe Road at Stanley were demolished in April.

https://goo.gl/maps/3AJ9E

Always knew they'd have to come down to eventually widen the CN subway at Horton, but it's interesting they've done it now.
Interesting, I have not been past there in a few months...I thought that project was pushed to 2019, rather odd they would demolish those houses now.

Hopefully that means is somehow was move up?? Anyone have details.
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  #966  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:48 PM
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The houses that were demolished were owned by the City of London, although they had been rented by a charity for $2 annually community housing until recently. I'll post a link that goes into fine detail. Part that's most galling to me is the City bought the properties in the MID-1970S to widen the road/underpass on Wharncliffe and only bothered to act on it now!

The EA is currently being conducted, both on the underpass, and on all of Wharncliffe from Baseline to Beecher St. For certain it would include Wharncliffe underpass widened to 5 lanes. What is done with Wharncliffe corridor in that area is anyone's guess. Bike Lanes? Centre-Left turn lane? Bus Bays? Huge project, 2019 would still be accurate timing. I'm guess CNR will have to build a temporary underpass while the new one is build, similar to what is planned to be done at CPR underpass

LFP link about 55 & 57 Wharncliffe: http://www.lfpress.com/2015/02/13/now-91...eturn-to-london-where-she-helped-so-many

Wharncliffe EA Study: http://www.london.ca/residents/Environment/EAs/Pages/Wharncliffe-Road-South.aspx
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  #967  
Old Posted May 14, 2015, 1:05 PM
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So quite a bit of work is going on at the moment on Wonderland Rd South between Exeter/Dingman it is closed for the next few days. It looks like they are starting to expand the road, upgrading/adding sewers, etc. Does anyone know if they are going ahead with the below already? Would not make much sense to dig it up...to then do it again in a few years but city logic is not always there.

https://www.london.ca/residents/Environment/EAs/Documents/3213055-PRELIMINARY-DESIGN-B.pdf
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  #968  
Old Posted May 14, 2015, 5:32 PM
Rosso Corsa Rosso Corsa is offline
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Originally Posted by MrSlippery519 View Post
So quite a bit of work is going on at the moment on Wonderland Rd South between Exeter/Dingman it is closed for the next few days. It looks like they are starting to expand the road, upgrading/adding sewers, etc. Does anyone know if they are going ahead with the below already? Would not make much sense to dig it up...to then do it again in a few years but city logic is not always there.

https://www.london.ca/residents/Environment/EAs/Documents/3213055-PRELIMINARY-DESIGN-B.pdf
With the prospects of development on Bob's range, the new IKEA, and now the new DSW shoe warehouse all on that stretch of Wonderland, it would make sense.

If you factor this in with the proposed new Goodlife HQ, Farmboy, and Sobeys all along Wonderland/Oxford area, you think widening Wonderland to 6 lanes from Oxford to Southdale will be in the cards?
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  #969  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 3:21 AM
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Roundabouts in London.

Hale-Trafagar. Single lane, also doubles as a rail overpass.


Wonderland-Sunningdale. Two lanes.


Adeliade-Sunningdale: Planned.


Wonderland-Digman: Planned 3 way roundabout
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  #970  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 11:15 PM
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  #971  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2015, 2:57 AM
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Highbury-Hamilton intersection was never intended to handle the traffic levels currently on it. If Highbury had been the 402, the main route would've swung further east along the hydro corridor, and it would've been a partial interchange, rather than the main route.

There's always gonna be losers in road widening, but the status quo is ridiculous. It's funny business saying they'll lose customers with access management. I and know others avoid that intersection as much as possible due to the horseshit traffic crawling though there. Commissioners & Wellington needs re-jigging too. Hopefully common sense carries the day, get some double left turns, widen where possible & not allowing lefts every 2 metres.
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  #972  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
Roundabouts in London.

Hale-Trafagar. Single lane, also doubles as a rail overpass.


Wonderland-Sunningdale. Two lanes.


Adeliade-Sunningdale: Planned.


Wonderland-Digman: Planned 3 way roundabout
They look cool but they are a nightmare for pedestrians. Nobody stops and you need eyes in the back of your head.
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  #973  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 10:36 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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They look cool but they are a nightmare for pedestrians. Nobody stops and you need eyes in the back of your head.
No kidding. Luckily only poor people walk near Hale and Trafalgar (so we have wasted too much breath already).

Roundabouts might make sense outside of the city where no one walks. They might. In cities, they are dangerous.
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  #974  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 3:05 AM
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depends on how you design them. If you design them with small radii and tight corners to enter with clear sitelines of pedestrians, they can be fine. Cars will be moving slowly to enter the roundabout and will yield to pedestrians as they are supposed to. Large radii roundabouts in suburban locations are horrible however as people treat them like a freeway interchange.
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  #975  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 2:16 PM
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How are they in our UK sister city? I know London, England obviously has ample pedestrians and they love roundabouts. What do they do differently?
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  #976  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 6:36 PM
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What's more dangerous, a roundabout or a pedestrian crossing the street while someone runs a red light?

There is a school of thought that roundabouts are safer for pedestrians because with lights people are only concentrated on them in order to avoid a yellow.........they fly down the road. Roundabouts require people to slow down but more importantly require the driver to be very aware of their surroundings, both cars and pedestrians, due to incoming/merging traffic.
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  #977  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 5:23 PM
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The whole pedestrian debate can go both ways, much like ssiguy and Hillstreet have stated.

I do feel at busy intersections having pedestrians crossing can become more difficult, in those cases there really needs to be another means of getting across the road be it an over/under pass or moving down the road etc.
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  #978  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 5:31 PM
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Some fucking asshole in my neighborhood has a thing with racing his obnoxiously-loud motorcycle in the middle of the night. Happens several times a month. Last night, it went on from 10pm-3am. I couldn't sleep. If I could only identify the fucker....I swear to God and sonny Jesus, I would tear that guy a new asshole.

The deafening noise of fast and furious motorcycles should be dulled with enforceable laws
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  #979  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 5:51 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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My favourite bit from that article: "Sometimes, enthralled by the speed and their own noise, they kill themselves."

That brought a smile to my face.

I try to be aware of motorcyclists when I'm driving, since most of them are law-abiding and vulnerable users of the road. Those obnoxious kids with their rockets that are needlessly loud and needlessly late hours? I hope there's a big ole tree or hydro pole with their name on it somewhere.
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  #980  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 11:22 PM
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Reminds me of

Video Link


-----

Getting back on topic, Commissioners widening work has shifted traffic onto the other side of the road. Should be complete between Viscount and Andover by the end of this year.

The Highbury CN Bridge work also has had traffic switch to the other side recently. Hopefully this one finishes up soon.

Both projects affect my commute by about 5-10 mins. Nothing terrible, but would be nice to get back to normal.

-----

Also the 401/Wonderland interchange is planned to open this fall, but based on what I saw a week ago, there's still a lot of work to do.
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