Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So what percentage of Québécois in general in the total Canadian summer medal count? No one has answered yet. I'm curious how they would fare if they were an independent nation.

Because it doesn't matter, as Quebecois are part of team Canada. Just like Ontarians, British Columbians, etc.

You are only trying to stir up shit.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No idea, although my impression is that they are well represented. I do know that Quebeckers punch above their weight (tee hee!) at the Winter Olympics.

Definitely Quebecois have a lot of success in the Winter Olympics.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

As is every other province, community and culture in Canada. It's all still part of Canada.

So like it or not, Quebecois are Canadian. Personally, I like it. Quebec is a great province and the people are wonderful. I'm proud to call them Canadian.

When an athlete from a First Nation is having success, we recognize that he or she is Cree, Innu or Algonquin. Rightfully so. Even if that athlete is representing Canada, he or she is part of another nation within Canada and may want to be seen as such. Why should it be different for Québécois? Being Québécois isn't just a function of geography, it is a nationality.

I have a Canadian citizenship, but my nationality is Québécois.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Generally speaking I think Québec produces just under 20% of Canada's medals at the summer games typically but 30% or more of the medals at the winter games.

There can be some variance from one Olympics to another though of course.

So why is Québec less good at summer Olympics?

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Generally speaking I think Québec produces just under 20% of Canada's medals at the summer games typically but 30% or more of the medals at the winter games.

FWIW, at the 2022 Olympics, Canada won 26 medals - 18 individual and 8 team.

Of the individual medals, 8 were won by Quebec born athletes - 44%
Team medals are harder to decipher, but of the 8, 7 were small teams and 1 was hockey.

Of the smaller teams, 2 were exclusively made up of Quebec born athletes (shorttrack and free style), 3 had no Quebec born athletes, and the other 2 were a mix. As for the hockey team, funnily enough of the 23 athletes on the team, only 3 were born in Quebec.

Traditionally, Quebec does well in areas like short/long track, freestyle and other small mtn activities (moguls, snowboard, etc) - which makes sense since there are many places in Quebec to hone these skills. Bobsleigh, alpine - less so.

The hockey makeup did surprise me though ...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by theman23

Already answered.

Yesterday, Ilya Kharun won a bronze in men's swimming. He was born in Montreal but has lived most of his life in Las Vegas, where his parents are performers with Cirque du Soleil. I guess that counts.

[Nashe]

It's pretty random from olympic games to olympic games, I would say, as inclusion is based on performance, not on geographic origin, especially for the summer games. Traditionally Quebec is strong at the winter games in events like freestyle skiing and speed skating. The difficulty being had in coming up with a straight answer I'd attribute to that randomness and the general disinterest in the stats, probably.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yesterday, Ilya Kharun won a bronze in men's swimming. He was born in Montreal but has lived most of his life in Las Vegas, where his parents are performers with Cirque du Soleil. I guess that counts.

He was interviewed on Radio-Canada in English only. He's probably as much of a Montrealer and a Quebecer as Kamala Harris is, birthplace notwithstanding. Still, bravo to him.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by shreddog

FWIW, at the 2022 Olympics, Canada won 26 medals - 18 individual and 8 team.

Of the individual medals, 8 were won by Quebec born athletes - 44%
Team medals are harder to decipher, but of the 8, 7 were small teams and 1 was hockey.

Of the smaller teams, 2 were exclusively made up of Quebec born athletes (shorttrack and free style), 3 had no Quebec born athletes, and the other 2 were a mix. As for the hockey team, funnily enough of the 23 athletes on the team, only 3 were born in Quebec.

Traditionally, Quebec does well in areas like short/long track, freestyle and other small mtn activities (moguls, snowboard, etc) - which makes sense since there are many places in Quebec to hone these skills. Bobsleigh, alpine - less so.

The hockey makeup did surprise me though ...

Not sure about its veracity but it's a long-standing gripe here that Hockey Canada discriminates against Quebec players at the World Juniors, Olympics, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

As is every other province, community and culture in Canada. It's all still part of Canada.

So like it or not, Quebecois are Canadian. Personally, I like it. Quebec is a great province and the people are wonderful. I'm proud to call them Canadian.

Quebec is definitely part of Canada and in many ways defines Canada.

That said, I'd disagree that every province in Canada is a "nation" in the way that Quebec is generally seen as one and sees itself as one.

Calling Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia a "nation" may have happened once somewhere, but it seems like a fanciful "us too!" type of thing more than anything.

Though a case could definitely be made for Newfoundland being a nation within Canada as well.

Aside from that, you have other groups within Canada not necessarily associated with entire provinces that are legitimate nations in the sociological sense: Inuit, Métis, First Nations, Acadiens, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So why is Québec less good at summer Olympics?

Good question. Quebec has beautiful summers so it's not like Iceland where it's not pleasant to be outside.

Perhaps it's that a lot of the Canadian Olympic training centres are far away and so people have less incentive to relocate a great distance from friends and family?

Or perhaps it's just a lack of interest and that winter sports appeal more to people here.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps it's that a lot of the Canadian Olympic training centres are far away

None located in Québec?

Originally Posted by Acajack

Or perhaps it's just a lack of interest and that winter sports appeal more to people here.

Or perhaps due to the fact Québec is more left-wing than the rest of Canada, and left-wingers value performance less (I can see that in France too), so no "champion" culture.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

None located in Québec?


Or perhaps due to the fact Québec is more left-wing than the rest of Canada, and left-wingers value performance less (I can see that in France too), so no "champion" culture.

No, I wouldn't say it's political.

And for the training centres, there are some (for summer or winter sports) located in Quebec. But many of them are obviously in the ROC as well. It's just a theory I had.

Francophones here are also historically poorer so the idea of taking part in competitive sport is a fairly new thing, only going back a couple of generations as something that has become generalized. If you look at Canadian Olympic medallists historically, francophones were quite rare in any sport, summer or winter, until the 1970s. And our share of the population was actually quite larger in the old days, as much as a third in the mid 1900s, compared to just under a quarter today.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Or perhaps due to the fact Québec is more left-wing than the rest of Canada, and left-wingers value performance less (I can see that in France too), so no "champion" culture.

It's the other way around. Québec has a highly praised athletic system including the infamous Institut national du sport, which some of the other provinces have tried to emulate.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Good question. Quebec has beautiful summers so it's not like Iceland where it's not pleasant to be outside.

Perhaps it's that a lot of the Canadian Olympic training centres are far away and so people have less incentive to relocate a great distance from friends and family?

Or perhaps it's just a lack of interest and that winter sports appeal more to people here.

It has more to do with Québec's embrace of winter, and it's one of only 3 provinces that has mountainous terrain competitive for winter sports. Québec's elite athletes just prefer hockey, skiing and snowboarding over summer sports like swimming, and represent an outsized contingent of the national team along with BC and Alberta.

Whereas most of Canada east of the Rockies can only train locally for summer sports (especially in Ontario where Blue Mountain just doesn't cut it), and the ROC pumps out a lot more competitive athletes to compete at summer national trials. Facilities wise Montreal is well equipped with its 1976 legacy venues, so even the pool at Parc Olympique is still the premiere swimming training centre in the country, along with Toronto's Pan-Am Centre and UBC's Acquatic Centre.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

When an athlete from a First Nation is having success, we recognize that he or she is Cree, Innu or Algonquin. Rightfully so. Even if that athlete is representing Canada, he or she is part of another nation within Canada and may want to be seen as such. Why should it be different for Québécois? Being Québécois isn't just a function of geography, it is a nationality.

I have a Canadian citizenship, but my nationality is Québécois.

Don't get me wrong, you have the right to identify any way you want to. I'm just talking that in the context of the Olympics, which is what this discussion is about, Quebecois are competing as part of the Canadian team. The Olympics don't recognize Quebec as its own nation, and thus there is no 'official' Team Quebec in the Olympics.

Now, if Quebec officially separates from Canada to become its own officially recognized sovereign nation, we can have this conversation again, and I'll agree with you. Quebec athletes would then be competing for Team Quebec.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Don't get me wrong, you have the right to identify any way you want to. I'm just talking that in the context of the Olympics, which is what this discussion is about, Quebecois are competing as part of the Canadian team. The Olympics don't recognize Quebec as its own nation, and thus there is no 'official' Team Quebec in the Olympics.

Now, if Quebec officially separates from Canada to become its own officially recognized sovereign nation, we can have this conversation again, and I'll agree with you. Quebec athletes would then be competing for Team Quebec.

I am not saying that medals won by Québécois shouldn't count as Canadian, I am just saying that Canada is a multinational state and we should recognize the accomplishments of its national parts. Mentioning that a medal was won by a Québécois doesn't decrease the total of Canadian medals in anyway. The Olympics don't recognize Québec as a country, but Canada does recognize it as a nation.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I am not saying that medals won by Québécois shouldn't count as Canadian, I am just saying that Canada is a multinational state and we should recognize the accomplishments of its national parts. Mentioning that a medal was won by a Québécois doesn't decrease the total of Canadian medals in anyway. The Olympics don't recognize Québec as a country, but Canada does recognize it as a nation.

Many, if not most, news reports about Canadian medal winners to indicate where the person is from. Quebec media certainly note when the winner is from Quebec.

Another Quebec Olympian who has had some press is Felix Auger-Aliassime, who has made it to the tennis semi-finals.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I am not saying that medals won by Québécois shouldn't count as Canadian, I am just saying that Canada is a multinational state and we should recognize the accomplishments of its national parts. Mentioning that a medal was won by a Québécois doesn't decrease the total of Canadian medals in anyway. The Olympics don't recognize Québec as a country, but Canada does recognize it as a nation.

Sure, I agree and so does the media. All the coverage I have watched so far makes it a point to say which province and/or city they are from. Often they do mini features on an athlete, telling their personal story, which almost always includes where they grew up and their path to the Olympics.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No, I wouldn't say it's political.

I didn't mean it in a political sense, more in a cultural sense.

Anyway, another CRAAAAZY night here!! 4th gold medal for Léon Marchand. I think all of France has fallen in love with him now.

Top 5 is like... 3 Anglo-Saxon countries, and 2 non-Anglo-Saxon intruders, France and China.



But where is Canada?? The one big Anglo-Saxon country that really seems to be underperforming. (I know, Winter games, etc, but still!)

[New Brisavoine]

Actually make that 11 gold medals and 36 total. I've posted too fast! It's a rain of medals tonight.