Halifax Stadium Discussion

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[worldlyhaligonian]

Wow, I bet that sum could be easily raised if they are talking about hundreds of millions for other developments!

I can't believe a developer isn't getting investors and just doing this.

[halifaxboyns]

Unfortunately I think Brett has pointed out that this stadium example from Vancouver is temporary and thus bare bones. I don't believe anyone would go for a bare bones concept; especially if you factor in the costs of landfill if you put it on the Halifax or Dartmouth waterfronts.

Another option is to think about redoing the metro centre if Nova Centre is approved. Theoretically; the existing WTCC building attached to the metro centre would not be needed anymore once Nova Centre is built - so you could renovate of completely demolish the Metro Centre and rebuild it in the same location slightly bigger?

There is also the possibility of making the stadium on landfill in Bedford as another phase of the Bedford master plan; however I don't believe that stadiums should be so far out of the downtown core.

If you use the concept I floated earlier; with a fully enclosed roofed stadium on landfill - I'm wondering how much it could cost? If the temp stadium is $12 million, I'm guessing it would be about 50$ for the stadium. Landfilling could probably be done for less than $10 million? So I'm guessing $60 million?

Plus if you put it on the Halifax side (as an example) you could tie in the board walk and cruising ship docking with the farmers market. You could also do the same thing on the Dartmouth side too; although I have concerns about traffic out of the Dartmouth downtown core.

[reddog794]

Please understand, this idea is after a 14 hour shift, but the CFL runs a weekly schedule, so what if the stadium was taken down after the game, and stored, then taken out of storage to be set up a week later? That would open the possibility of having it put up, in the commons. The door was opened by The Stones.

With the right engineering, the components could be simple SIMPLE, to take down, and put up, roof and all. It would also extend the life of the stadium, and allow for moneys to be properly set aside for a permanent setting.

It's what I thought when I saw that picture.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by reddog794

Please understand, this idea is after a 14 hour shift, but the CFL runs a weekly schedule, so what if the stadium was taken down after the game, and stored, then taken out of storage to be set up a week later? That would open the possibility of having it put up, in the commons. The door was opened by The Stones.

With the right engineering, the components could be simple SIMPLE, to take down, and put up, roof and all. It would also extend the life of the stadium, and allow for moneys to be properly set aside for a permanent setting.

It's what I thought when I saw that picture.

That's an interesting thought - but where would it be stored? You'd need a building not far from the commons that you'd have quick and easy access too - the only place I can think of is the wanderer's grounds (since there is an old building there).

Although I think the preference would be to build a permanent stadium, versus having to pay people to take it apart and then store it over and over. That would be my preference (to build a permanent one) - that way if it was on the waterfront - it could be designed to integrate with it and improve the look. I'd even be on board with having a hotel attached to it.

But it's a good thought - show's people are thinking!

[JustinMacD]

SMU already has a ton of renovations on the go. I'm currently sitting in an office in McNally and they are completely revamping the entire building (inside, outside.. everything).

They've jacked up our fees a tonne to pay for this so I doubt they'd make another multi-million dollar committment. They already have a ten-year plan to revitalize all corners of campus.

Stadium:

The Stadium Building (C-6 & OS5)
The mound and bleachers should be replaced with a new Stadium Building that contains a mix of uses, including bleachers, food outlets, retail uses – such as the bookstore - and classrooms. A connection to the Loyola Building can be considered but should maintain pedestrian access between the Residence Terrace and the McNally Courtyard.

[JustinMacD]

Have a look at what they plan on doing here:

http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/growth.html

There are some pretty exciting new buildings in the works, including a brand new rink, a new parking garage on Robie/Inglis, and a bunch of new academic buildings.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

Have a look at what they plan on doing here:

http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/growth.html

There are some pretty exciting new buildings in the works, including a brand new rink, a new parking garage on Robie/Inglis, and a bunch of new academic buildings.

I'm very impressed with this plan - I won't be sad to see the Burke building go. That's where I spent my entire time when I did my geography degree and that building was pretty bad; although the map library was pretty kewl.

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I'm very impressed with this plan - I won't be sad to see the Burke building go. That's where I spent my entire time when I did my geography degree and that building was pretty bad; although the map library was pretty kewl.

I heard they might actually just gut and renovate Burke, but who knows.

It's very outdated and lecture halls are just awful. Aside from Burke, there are really only two large lecture halls in the entire uni, so a complete tear down might cause problems for a few years.

I'd love to see it torn down though. SMU has a nice campus but the Burke area is probably the most visible area of campus.. and it's a real eyesore.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

SMU already has a ton of renovations on the go. I'm currently sitting in an office in McNally and they are completely revamping the entire building (inside, outside.. everything).

They've jacked up our fees a tonne to pay for this so I doubt they'd make another multi-million dollar committment. They already have a ten-year plan to revitalize all corners of campus.

Stadium:

The Stadium Building (C-6 & OS5)
The mound and bleachers should be replaced with a new Stadium Building that contains a mix of uses, including bleachers, food outlets, retail uses – such as the bookstore - and classrooms. A connection to the Loyola Building can be considered but should maintain pedestrian access between the Residence Terrace and the McNally Courtyard.

Thank you for the information JustinMacD. I have been wondering what the plans were for the SMU stadium. It doesn't look like they are planning to enlarge it, but it appears as though all the seats will be covered and have an enclosed area under the stands. However, they indicate that it won't be done for another 10 years (http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/implement.html) Below are two images from the link that you provided (http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/core.html). I would consider this to be good news (they have plans) and bad news (it is a long term plan and it looks like only about 4000 seats).

(source: http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/core.html)

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[fenwick16]

The thing that I have come to realize is that Halifax doesn't have a municipal stadium because the local politicians and provincial politicians won't do anything to give the majority of people what they want. Instead they are chasing after Performing Arts Centres. For that reason, even a bare bones stadium is unlikely in the HRM. The municipal politicians won't make the effort to make it happen - there is always some excuse. They will wait for a big event to magically drop in the HRM or wait for some big investor to come along and then when he does they will create red tape to prevent it from happening. In short, I have come to realize that the politicians down there are useless and mainly just enjoy hearing themselves talk.

[reddog794]

I would figure somewheres in either Burnside, or Bayers Lake. The pre-engineered pieces could easily be designed, to fit on a flat bed. With the right thinking, it could also be used at 1/4 capacity, for across the street from Citadel High for big local events, like soccer and football games.

I think I did point out that it wouldn't be permanent. A permanent setting would be the next step. With this city, it has to have a problem to deal with right away, or nothing but studies get done for 3-6 years. The proposed idea was merely to get the team here possibly. The city and province would have to jump to keep it. Or lose it to Moncton.

I merely presented it as a different angle.

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[someone123]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

Every publicly financed stadium in Canada has been built for a big event and/or for an established team. If Halifax were to build a stadium, it would be the first large stadium ever built in Canada without a big event to justify it or without an existing team to move into it.

And a few years ago there was the CWG bid. If it hadn't been so horribly mismanaged (poor cost estimates, secrecy, and unrealistic expectations) maybe it would have resulted in a stadium for the city. Right now nobody is talking about a new stadium because we are still in the middle of a cool-down period.

What I expect is that there will be another bid for a similar event in a few years that includes a stadium. Eventually, a bid like that will be accepted and then there will be a CFL team.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

What I expect is that there will be another bid for a similar event in a few years that includes a stadium. Eventually, a bid like that will be accepted and then there will be a CFL team.

And what "similar event" are you talking about..................

- It won't be the Olympics for damn sure.
- The Commonwealth Games wouldn't touch Halifax again with a 10 foot pole.
- I suppose it could be the Pan American games............

or

You could go the Moncton route and try for an IAAF World Championship event.

[someone123]

Basically it could be anything. Games are just a pretext for getting government money.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

80 years ago, a big event magically dropped a stadium into Hamilton and it has taken another big event for Hamilton to finally get around to replacing Ivor Wynne Stadium. The mayor of Hamilton expects the Ticats owner to come up with $50 million for the stadium despite the fact that the owner thinks he will lose more money at the proposed stadium/location than he does at Ivor Wynne.

The difference is that places like Hamilton actively go after these events and once they are awarded an event they make sure that it happens. Halifax will not win another Commonwealth Games bid in our lifetime because of the last fiasco. Have you heard of the HRM pursuing any large sports events? These don't magically drop into cities; it takes literally thousands of hours of volunteering. My point is, that no one in the HRM is looking for large sports events.

Every publicly financed stadium in Canada has been built for a big event and/or for an established team. If Halifax were to build a stadium, it would be the first large stadium ever built in Canada without a big event to justify it or without an existing team to move into it.

Then don't build a large stadium. It could build the first stage of a stadium and then once it gets a team or large event then it could expand it. It could even start with a 10,000 seat stadium and then set up temporary seats like Moncton in order to host CFL exhibition games. Ottawa is planning to refurbish its Landsdown stadium without an existing team or large event (the cost is similar to building a new stadium) . Hamilton built Copps Arena without an existing team or large event. Building large arenas is done quite commonly in Canada - example the MTS in Winnipeg. Such facilities aren't used just for sports. Why shouldn't Halifax be the first to show some initiative and build the first stage of a stadium? HRM is building a new Central library, and it built a 4 pad complex in Bedford without a team or large event.

I don't want to sound negative (but this is reality), unless some private citizen takes the initiative and starts raising money without any help from the HRM, then most likely a municipal stadium won't happen in the HRM for the next 20 - 30 years. The politicians down there really are useless - many of them think that their job is to drive development out of the city. If you think that such people are going to start working to get a large event in Halifax then you really are dreaming.

If Halifax were to build a stadium, it would be the first large stadium ever built in Canada without a big event to justify it or without an existing team to move into it. - When you make statements like this, it just shows that you have accepted rhetoric put forward by politicians and others. If HRM is going to become a more dynamic city it will have to overcome its small town mentality. It could start by showing some initiative with a municipal stadium by making the first move instead of giving its citizens all the reasons why it can't.

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thank you for the information JustinMacD. I have been wondering what the plans were for the SMU stadium. It doesn't look like they are planning to enlarge it, but it appears as though all the seats will be covered and have an enclosed area under the stands. However, they indicate that it won't be done for another 10 years (http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/implement.html) Below are two images from the link that you provided (http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/core.html). I would consider this to be good news (they have plans) and bad news (it is a long term plan and it looks like only about 4000 seats).

(source: http://www.smu.ca/masterplan/core.html)

They are at least 4 1/2 years into that 10 year plan though. The Atrium is finished and McNally should be finished by Christmas.

I'd say the work on the stadium would begin after the rink is built (2 years or so, a lot of the funding is there for the rink.. they just have some zoning issues, go figure).

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted