Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 36 fl, 33 fl, 24 fl & 13 fl | U/C

[Rico Rommheim]

Hi all, I haven't been keeping track of this project but I just happened to stumble upon this thread and caught a few posts...so let me understand this. The Royal Connaught is being converted into a seniors home? What the hell happened to Stinson?

[Jon Dalton]

This is garbage.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Hi all, I haven't been keeping track of this project but I just happened to stumble upon this thread and caught a few posts...so let me understand this. The Royal Connaught is being converted into a seniors home? What the hell happened to Stinson?

Stinson couldn't reach an agreement with the present owner of the Connaught, so Stinson's proposal died.

Now the present owner has a proposal to turn the Connaught into a mixed income and mixed used residential building.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Stinson couldn't reach an agreement with the present owner of the Connaught, so Stinson's proposal died.

Now the present owner has a proposal to turn the Connaught into a mixed income and mixed used residential building.

Thanks. Doesn't sound like much.

[adam]

I don't like it either, but with all the aging baby boomers, geriatrics is going to be very lucrative in years to come. If they want to maximize their investments, this is probably a safe bet.

[FairHamilton]

I've said this to many on this board one-on-one. Downtown Hamilton is now being used as a dumping ground for seniors.

Off the top of my head, proposals I can name for seniors residences are, next to Lister, Staybridges conversion, Gibson School, Royal Connaught. And there may be additional.

People this is a very disturbing trend. In downtown Hamilton, first it was shelters, then affordable housing, now seniors. We need mix and diversity, not ghettoization.

[SABBATICAL!]

Was talking to a friend who was working on a film crew doing work inside the Connaught, and apparently they had to cancel work in there because a hazardous mold was discovered to have infested most of the spaces they were using. Yay.

[highwater]

No doubt tax payers will be on the hook for removing the mold caused by years of owner neglect.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

I've said this to many on this board one-on-one. Downtown Hamilton is now being used as a dumping ground for seniors.

Off the top of my head, proposals I can name for seniors residences are, next to Lister, Staybridges conversion, Gibson School, Royal Connaught. And there may be additional.

People this is a very disturbing trend. In downtown Hamilton, first it was shelters, then affordable housing, now seniors. We need mix and diversity, not ghettoization.

Overall, this is a relatively small number of senior's projects, but I do share concern that this may be a start of a trend that could be detrimental to the core's health. As long as these projects are balanced with a proportionate amount of market-value residences, there wouldn't be a threat of ghettoization of the downtown (if a concentration of seniors residences could truly be considered ghettoization).

I'd like to see more about this Royal Connaught development proposal before casting judgement. It does seem to indicate a 50/50 split between affordable housing and market-rate rental units. From my experience as a former director of a successful downtown Toronto co-op, this is a good mix for residential rental units.

I would think there would be a more suitable use for this building, be it a hotel residential mix or some sort of condo development. The owners obviously have had trouble securing financing for redevelopment for several years now, and are relying on public money to get things going. If it is not redeveloped in this format, it would likely be a couple more years of vacancy before another proposal comes along.

As an aside, could Gibson school really be considered downtown? If this is the school I am thinking about, it's on Barton between Sanford and Sherman.

[adam]

I think you are right. Small steady improvements are the right thing for the downtown right now.. Worst case scenario - no NHL team and no LRT - then we might see an all market-value condo once the new farmer's market and library is finished..? Then I'm thinking a grocery store in the core a year or two after that.... ?

[highwater]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

(if a concentration of seniors residences could truly be considered ghettoization).

A concentration of any one demographic is ghettoization AFAIC, if you take 'ghettoization' to mean 'separation' as opposed to the image of poor, crime-ridden neighbourhoods. I would argue Hess Village has become a 'ghetto'.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I'd like to see more about this Royal Connaught development proposal before casting judgement. It does seem to indicate a 50/50 split between affordable housing and market-rate rental units. From my experience as a former director of a successful downtown Toronto co-op, this is a good mix for residential rental units.

I think the problem here is one of trust. It could very well be a good mix, but then you have to have faith that the owners will execute the project as proposed. We've seen enough bad faith development in this town. It's not surprising people are angry and skeptical.

[FairHamilton]

highwater, Both excellent points and exactly to my meaning of ghettoizaton. I highly doubt we'll see a good mix from this proposed development.

For a minute forget all the bad faith development that has happened in Hamilton. Lets just focus on the bad faith development by Grand Connaught, that own and are trying to develop this building. The taxpayers in the City of Hamilton contributed $230K for asbestos removal at this site as part of a 5 Diamond Hotel development that never materialized with these same developers.

No development really meant we should have gotten our money back, but didn't

Also, I doubt there are any timelines on when any market rate units are to be completed, thus allowing for that phase to sit and languish. If any commercial is developed (and I'm guessing it will also languish with the market rate units), it's not needed in Hamilton.

Also, I object to the statement from the city;

The construction of these new rental units would result in community-wide housing, economic, and social benefits to the City, including brownfield redevelopment, residential intensification and would be a catalyst for downtown and neighbourhood revitalization.

First Place has 513 units and does anyone think it has revitalized that neighbourhood/section of King Street? Admittedly, this statement is from an article written 2 years ago, and it doesn't paint a picture of revitalization in an area with a large scale seniors building. I don't think much has changed in the past 2 years for the positive since it was written in The Spec in mid-September 2007.

The vacancy rate for apartments has improved, Murray said, but not for the commercial units at street level. The city's community services department is looking at placing some of its staff in the commercial units, he said.

Finally, as nice as the Terrace on King look, it's done little for the revitalization of the neighbourhood along King Street. The street front retail in the Terraces remains empty, and off the top-of-my head both Three16 & Spoons have closed since that building opened. Catalyst for downtown and neighbourhood revitalization, huh! These people (city staffers) must think we are stupid.

[markbarbera]

Accepting this broad definition of ghettoization, it begs the question - is ghettoization necessarily a bad thing? The ghettoization of Church Street in Toronto has actually made it one of the more vibrant residential and commercial communities in downtown Toronto. Wouldn't the concentration of artists along James North also be considered a form of ghettoization?

There is an assumption being made here that senior residences equates with poverty. That is not necessarily a valid assumption. Seniors do tend to have a fixed income, which on the onset sounds like a bad thing for the core. However, they also tend to spend their funds in close proximity to their place of residence, so that money will flow to businesses in the downtown. It may seem paltry, but it is more cash flow than is currently present.

I think the problem here is the developers have little options available to them, particularly in the midst of the current recession. While the idea of high-end hotel condos might sound great on paper, the fact remains that the owners of this building have been trying for years to secure financing for such a development. And while it is easy to blame these particular developers for failure to secure financing (review my previous posts, I hold no fondness for this group of people), the simple fact remains that lenders are still reticent to invest in condo and commercial development in downtown Hamilton, regardless of who the developer is. Such was the case for this group, so also was it the case for Stinson and for the Spallaci Group (the Terraces was originally envisioned as condos back in 2006, but financing couldn't be secured for that development either).

As far as the city funding of the asbestos removal in Connaught goes, I don't recall the funding being contingent upon its redevelopment specifically as a hotel. At least the city can recoup some of this monies once it is redeveloped as a residential apartment and is paying taxes back into the city coffers.

[FairHamilton]

Do you care about downtown? Put your body and view, where your keystrokes are on this board.

The Honorable Jim Watson, Minister of Municipal Affairs and
Housing, is coming to Hamilton as part of a province-wide
consultation on a long term affordable housing strategy.
Join In The Discussion and Have Your Say!
Thursday, September 10
6:30 - 9:30 pm
Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Resurrection
821 Upper Wentworth St, Hamilton

Bus from downtown: #25 Upper Wentworth to Mohawk Rd
To register for the session, http://www.mah.gov.on.ca and
follow the links for Affordable Housing Consultation.
You can also phone 1 877 224 7271.

THE MINISTER WANTS TO KNOW YOUR VIEWS ON
AFFORDABLE HOUSING
SOLUTIONS
BUS TICKETS AVAILABLE
LIGHT REFRESHMENTS WILL BE SERVED

[SteelTown]

Connaught: From high-rent to affordable
Developers seeking government money

September 10, 2009
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/631894

The city is recommending the historic Royal Connaught be redeveloped for affordable housing.

The hotel's owners are seeking more than $18 million in government assistance for the $27-million mixed-use project that would feature 100 units with rents 20 per cent below market value, another 106 market-rate units and 20,000 square feet of commercial space.

Downtown Councillor Bob Bratina admits he's conflicted about the proposal, saying it wouldn't be his first choice for the 1916 landmark.

"But we can't leave that building empty forever."

The city recently asked developers to submit proposals that could be considered for funding under the Canada-Ontario Affordable Housing Program. Six projects were selected and prioritized by city staff. The Connaught got top ranking. Councillors signed off on the recommendation yesterday, but it must still be approved by council next Wednesday night.

If selected by the province, the project would receive $12.9 million from the housing program and $5.6 million in tax and fee breaks from the city. The units would be geared toward seniors and the disabled.

Tony Battaglia, spokesperson for Grand Connaught Development Group Inc., said the plan represents the best chance of redevelopment.

"The reality is the market place is not very strong in the hotel sector," he said, noting a lack of financing. "We don't want to keep the project sitting there without money."

The property is large enough that there could still be a hotel portion if the market changes, said Battaglia.

The local consortium bought the hotel for $4.5 million after it went into receivership in 2004.

Battaglia declined to discuss the group's ownership structure yesterday. Originally it included local investors, such as Battaglia, LIUNA international vice-president Joe Mancinelli, hotelier Oscar Kichi, builder Ted Valeri and investment executive Mario Frankovich.

In the five years the hotel has sat vacant, there have been several failed revival attempts. Most recently developer Harry Stinson proposed a large condo project, but couldn't find financing.

Yesterday he called the affordable housing proposal a "sad evolution" for the building, but noted there have been successful mixed-rental projects in Toronto.

"It will be positive to have the building alive and occupied," Stinson said. "Clearly I would have had grander visions."

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said the plan achieves the city's goal of bringing more people to the core.

"I think it's time to get something happening at that location."

But Councillor Chad Collins said he needs to hear more about the project's merits, noting he and others have a different vision for the symbolic property.

"I bet the last thing on people's list is affordable housing."

Battaglia said people's opinions will depend on how they view affordable housing. The units will be targeted toward the working poor.

"Downtown cores are made for all kinds of people," he said.

The development group is working with Rudi Spallacci, who recently finished another affordable housing project, Terraces on King.

The city's downtown renewal office has been talking with the group about other funding opportunities, such as the residential loan program, said director Ron Marini, who fully supports the project.

"I don't see a downside to it."

[flar]

"Downtown cores are made for all kinds of people," he said.

Apparently downtown Hamilton is for the poor.

I've said this again and again, with all due compassion to the poor, disabled and downtrodden of our society, but the very harsh reality is that most middle class people with cars and homes and good jobs will not mingle with the kinds of people who will live in this building. People don't think the lower city is the ghetto because the buildings are old, they're passing judgement on the kinds of people who live there.

Some people are able to leave this kind of social prejudice behind them after high school, but the unfortunate reality is that most do not.

[adam]

Very few middle class are willing to raise a family in an area that is predominantly welfare and unemployed. it has been said many times before, the downtown core needs diversification. This will be a step backwards to that goal.

[FairHamilton]

Success, breeds success. Positive energy feeds off positive energy. The flip side of that is also true.

Interesting points from The Spec article;

The property is large enough that there could still be a hotel portion if the market changes, said Battaglia.

There's a carrot, lol. If you pay for the first part, we might give you a hotel. I don't believe it for a millesecond.

Battaglia declined to discuss the group's ownership structure yesterday.

Nothing like being transparent when siding up to the public trough.

The units will be targeted toward the working poor.

Hmm, where did the seniors and disabled from the City's report go? Small hotel rooms, converted to apartments. Do I read single men (i.e. flop house) between the lines in that statement.

"Downtown cores are made for all kinds of people," he said.

He's right, there's City Housing across the street, Terraces down the street, oh wait a second.........

The city's downtown renewal office has been talking with the group about other funding opportunities, such as the residential loan program, said director Ron Marini, who fully supports the project.

So the $18M is only the start, there's more government support in the form of a residential loan.

City of Hamilton, run from this now!!! City of Hamilton when it cost tens of millions of taxpayers dollars and the downtown core is forever changed it will too late.

[realcity]

All good comments Fair


"the hotel's owners are seeking more than $18 million in government assistance.."
-- like thats a big surprise. they don't put there own money on the line, just Lister


"No market for hotel rooms"???? maybe right this second, but if they started building a hotel now the economy would be different by the time it was completed. They talk like this recession will last forever. Same garbage was heard from Darko re: his mythical hotel too.

[thistleclub]

Now the Delta Bingo facelift is starting to make sense.

Anyone have any idea how much commercial uplift spins off of the Gore and the Spallaci? Or how many of the vacant storefronts along King between John and Wellington would fit in the proposed 20,000 square feet of commercial space?