CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7 - Page 403

the urban politician · #**8041** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 4:45 PM**

You don't need small buildings to have a good retail strip. The Mag Mile itself is a great example of that.

Not having small buildings in and of itself should not be a reason why Streeterville struggles to have a shopping strip. In fact, Streeterville already has 2 retail/restaurant rows in what are large floorplate buildings.

emathias · #**8042** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

You don't need small buildings to have a good retail strip. The Mag Mile itself is a great example of that.

Not having small buildings in and of itself should not be a reason why Streeterville struggles to have a shopping strip. In fact, Streeterville already has 2 retail/restaurant rows in what are large floorplate buildings.

Yes, but they're broken up into bite-sized pieces in those Ohio and Ontario stretches.

Part of it, too, I think is that Streeterville isn't particularly pleasant to walk in. There are a lot of long, blank walls, and Illinois and Grand are pretty high-speed. North of that part is the Northwestern campus, which is dead quiet in the evenings. It just feels like a jumble of large buildings that are each preoccupied with themselves, sited on a series of blocks that are a full numbered block long. In River North and the Gold Coast, most of the blocks are broken into half-block sizes, which leaves more edges for shops and makes for more variety when walking. Between Huron and Illinois, St. Clair and the Lake, there are 15 rectangular blocks. In River North, Lasalle to Michigan is a similar distance, but instead of 15 rectangular blocks, there are 30 square-shaped blocks. That's just more pleasant for a pedestrian, and leaves more commercial "surface area" for stuff to be located and a wider variety of walking routes. Even if they had the same amount of retail frontage, because there is so much more frontage, River North would have more to engage a pedestrian as they walk along.

VKChaz · #**8043** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias

Yes, but they're broken up into bite-sized pieces in those Ohio and Ontario stretches.

Part of it, too, I think is that Streeterville isn't particularly pleasant to walk in. There are a lot of long, blank walls, and Illinois and Grand are pretty high-speed. North of that part is the Northwestern campus, which is dead quiet in the evenings. It just feels like a jumble of large buildings that are each preoccupied with themselves, sited on a series of blocks that are a full numbered block long. In River North and the Gold Coast, most of the blocks are broken into half-block sizes, which leaves more edges for shops and makes for more variety when walking. ...

The old part of Streeterville is a good example. But seems to me that relatively dense areas with fairly sparse retail are common. The Gold Coast area - North to Division, Lakefront to Wells - is dense but doesn't have a retail corridor running through. (If Sandburg had been designed differently, there might be a retail stretch along Clark Street.) Hyde Park east of the tracks is also similar - dense but IIRC not much retail outside a strip along 55th. Instead the retail center is west of the tracks. And as the lakefront represents a dead end, maybe this is more sensible.

That isn't to say these areas should be different; maybe they are fine the way they are. But if retail isn't designed into an area (or doesn't make sense in an area) then an area can be heavily populated but feel inactive. And, IMO, if much of the retail is spread piecemeal throughout an area rather than along a commercial street, it may give the appearance of less activity. I used to feel there was an opportunity to create a strong retail corridor between Michigan and Navy Pier that served Pier foot traffic and local demand (something with a little more charm and inviting to visitors that connects two major visitor destinations), but I don't know if that was ever studied.

emathias · #**8044** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKChaz

The old part of Streeterville is a good example. But seems to me that relatively dense areas with fairly sparse retail are common. The Gold Coast area - North to Division, Lakefront to Wells - is dense but doesn't have a retail corridor running through. (If Sandburg had been designed differently, there might be a retail stretch along Clark Street.) Hyde Park east of the tracks is also similar - dense but IIRC not much retail outside a strip along 55th. Instead the retail center is west of the tracks. And as the lakefront represents a dead end, maybe this is more sensible.
...

Wells itself is a heavy retail corridor. Clark has retail at the North end and Division end. Division is, of course, very retaily, as is North Avenue west of Clark. Part of it has to do with the wealth of the area affecting the type of retail that could survive.

I'm personally focused less on how much retail there is, versus how pleasant it is to walk around in. The Gold Coast north of Division is BEAUTIFUL, and people actually travel there just to walk around because it's so nice. Nobody travels to Streeterville to walk around for a peaceful evening's romantic walk.

VKChaz · #**8045** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 10:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias

Wells itself is a heavy retail corridor. Clark has retail at the North end and Division end. Division is, of course, very retaily, as is North Avenue west of Clark. Part of it has to do with the wealth of the area affecting the type of retail that could survive.

I'm personally focused less on how much retail there is, versus how pleasant it is to walk around in. The Gold Coast north of Division is BEAUTIFUL, and people actually travel there just to walk around because it's so nice. Nobody travels to Streeterville to walk around for a peaceful evening's romantic walk.

Yes, the fringes of GC are commercial, but my point is I get the sense some assume density equals a big commercial presence - and that isn't necessarily true. FWIW, when I lived in GC, it felt strangely isolated. To the north is mostly the park and Wells can feel like a hike with wide LaSalle serving as a mental barrier (at least to me). But yes, GC is a great area for walking, and I never felt it needed more.

LouisVanDerWright · #**8046** Posted **Jun 9, 2017, 10:38 PM**

^^^ To your point, Edgewater has tremendous density and very little in the way of retail strips. Andersonville itself is a shockingly recent development in terms of a bustling retail district. Sure there are a few little patches at the L stops like Granville and Bryn Mawr, but those hardly seem to count as a serious retail district.