Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can speak to this (as a physician).

In North America, we practice North American medicine to North American standards.

Virtually all the medical textbooks used in North American medical schools are written in English. These are the textbooks used (or at least referenced to) in all North American medical schools (even the francophone ones in Quebec).

After medical school, if you intend to specialize, then you enter a residency match. Most of the residency programs are in anglophone North America, and, if you are interested in obtaining the best possible graduate training, you are very likely going to have to go to a major teaching hospital in another province/state.

After residency, when in private practice, you still have to maintain 400 hours of CME during every five year cycle of practice (two weeks per year). Most of these hours are accumulated by attending major medical conferences. virtually all the major medical conferences are sponsored by major American medicals schools, held in American convention centres, and conducted in English. Attendees to these conferences come from everywhere in the world.

Is it any wonder that over 90% of graduates of francophone physicians in Quebec speak excellent English?

It is not a conspiracy. It is just a matter of fact.

i suspect that 99% of the articles published in what are recognized as the top academic/research journals in medicine are in English (just like in my field, and [alas, for many], most science, social science, engineering and business fields). I doubt you can get very far in med school today without at least some fluency in English, if only to be able to read the cutting edge research, which I suspect is required in most MD specializations). In business academia, 99% (probably even higher) of heavily cited works are published in English. Like it or not, English is the lingua franca of academia. It is as essential to most graduate studies as mathematics is to many fields.

[MolsonExport]

Shitting on Quebec anglos is "just desserts" for the shitty past treatment of francophone communities in decades past, I reckon. What goes around, comes around, right? You've ceded the moral high ground.

[Acajack]

And yet the anglo community of Quebec cannot simply bask in the good fortune it has of being part of such a prodigious and ubiquitous culture, and still needs to make comparisons to Nazi Germany because signs at shopping malls say ENTRÉE, stop signs say ARRÊT, and demands that service staff add a "hi" to their "bonjour" to make them happy.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I can't think of another Metro that doesn't have English signs for example.

Most metros I've seen in Europe don't have English signs.

The Paris Metro now has recorded messages in various languages, but that's only for pre-recorded messages (urgent or 'on the spot' messages are only in French), and they make a point of playing the messages in 3 or 4 foreign languages, not JUST English (the language chosen for the messages depends on the lines: on the lines going to Gare de Lyon where the trains to Italy arrive, there will be Italian messages; German messages on the lines serving Gare de l'Est; Spanish messages on the lines serving Montparnasse station; Chinese and Japanese are also used for messages that unsuspecting Asian tourists need to understand, such as informing them of the presence of pickpockets).

There are no messages in Russian however. Neither Dutch, nor Portuguese.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Shitting on Quebec anglos is "just desserts" for the shitty past treatment of francophone communities in decades past, I reckon. What goes around, comes around, right? You've ceded the moral high ground.

Definition:

Shitting: Giving the best minority language services in Canada.

[Acajack]

Jacques Parizeau was once asked by a reporter if Quebec should tie English services and rights in Quebec to a form of reciprocity with the treatment of Canadian francophones outside Quebec.

His off-the-cuff answer: "Come on now, we're not that mean."

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Fog over the Channel, the Continent isolated".

The Brits have always been suspicious of the continent.

Nothing good ever heads north across the channel.

All they've gotten from the continent is the Normans, the Romans, the Spanish Armada, the Luftwaffe and hoards of north African refugees.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

All they've gotten from the continent is the Normans, the Romans, the Spanish Armada, the Luftwaffe and hoards of north African refugees.

And... the Anglo-Saxons.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Brits have always been suspicious of the continent.

Nothing good ever heads north across the channel.

All they've gotten from the continent is the Normans, the Romans, the Spanish Armada, the Luftwaffe and hoards of north African refugees.

This is supposed to be a bad thing?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And yet the anglo community of Quebec cannot simply bask in the good fortune it has of being part of such a prodigious and ubiquitous culture, and still needs to make comparisons to Nazi Germany because signs at shopping malls say ENTRÉE, stop signs say ARRÊT, and demands that service staff add a "hi" to their "bonjour" to make them happy.

The Anglo community, writ large, makes these comparisons? Holy smearing an entire group due to the actions of a tiny lunatic fringe, Batman!!

I can understand why you and Brisavoine feel entitled to hold court in this thread.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Definition:

Shitting: Giving the best minority language services in Canada.

Definition: shitting, as the posts of many of you deriding the Anglos.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is supposed to be a bad thing?

Apparently the racists are not where they are supposed to be...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is supposed to be a bad thing?

They belong in Europe, not in the British Isles.

Or, that's what the Brits think anyway.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

According to Statistics Canada about 250,000 people in Toronto report being to sustain a conversation in French. This makes French the second-most spoken or known language in the city after English, counting first and second language speakers.

There may be more native speakers of Russian (or of several other languages) in Toronto than French, but generally they don't have many if hardly any second language speakers beyond their core base of "natives". French has quite a few.

C'est la vie.

It's because officialdom in the capital of Ontario treats French as a nuisance that's imposed on them (and it's so obvious how GTA bureaucrats here treat you when you have the indignity of requesting for french services). The french fact just doesn't fit the narrative of the pretty multicultural mosaic of Toronto.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Jacques Parizeau was once asked by a reporter if Quebec should tie English services and rights in Quebec to a form of reciprocity with the treatment of Canadian francophones outside Quebec.

His off-the-cuff answer: "Come on now, we're not that mean."

If Quebec ever separates, I imagine some sort of reciprocity agreement like this will be established between the two countries, and then we'll be forced to have this argument!

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I don't count New Brunswick in that list as they are a officially bilingual province.

90 % of doctors in Québec can speak English, and by law people can demand medical services in English when available. What percentage of Francophones in Manitoba and Ontario can have medical services in French?

Also Québec have 3 English universities and many English cegeps. How many French higher education institutions are there in other provinces?

Interesting, whenever New Brunswick is mentioned, you move the goal posts for your argument. Must hurt to know NB treats it Franco minority much better than Quebec treats its Anglo minority.

In terms of Universities and other PSIs, Manitoba has Universite de Saint-Boniface. Unlike "English" universities in Quebec which must have French first bilingual exterior and interior signage, all signage at USB is French only; outside of some safety signage which is French first bilingual.

Alberta has the French campus of the UofA - campus Saint-Jean. In Nova Scotia, there's Université Sainte-Anne. And in New Brunswick, there's Universite de Moncton with campuses in Moncton, Edmundston and Shippagan, as well as the CCNB with five campuses throughout the province. Plus, Ontario offers many PSIs where students can receive their education in French.

In terms of health care, Manitoba has two designated bilingual health authorities: Southern Health-Sante Sud and Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. The following are a listing of bilingual facilities, programs and services offered at the WRHA: https://wrha.mb.ca/francophone-healt...al-facilities/. Southern Health-Sante Sud has its own listing of bilingual offering. Plus, any service offered through Manitoba Health must be available in both English and French.

For Ontario, you can research the French Language Services Act to see what's is covered for healthcare.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Note that for most of them I don't think they necessarily do it because France itself is seen as that cool, but rather it's just a way of speaking that they're more exposed to due to social media and the Internet. The true meaning of "viral", you could say.

Agreed. If anything it appears young Quebecois are more confident than ever, and see themselves as more than contemporary equals when compared to les francais. There's definitely no huge social undercurrent to mimic the French.

Often times when France comes up in conversation in Montreal, it's a cautionary tale of how things could go wrong, like the banlieue, failed integration, gilets jaunes, lack of opportunities for young people etc.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Interesting, whenever New Brunswick is mentioned, you move the goal posts for your argument. Must hurt to know NB treats it Franco minority much better than Quebec treats its Anglo minority.

For the UdeM Moncton campus, you could argue this is the most complete university campus in the entire province, containing both a law school and a medical school, as well as a large engineering school and extensive post graduate programs. On the anglophone side, these faculties are split between UNBF and UNBSJ.

Compared to the large francophone university in Moncton, anglophone Monctonians (the majority) have to put up with a tiny 800 student private religious university (Crandall University), which forces you to attend chapel every day, has a very strict Christian moral code (not a friendly environment for gays etc), and has rudimentary programs and no affiliation with the Maritime Provinces Higher Education Council. The only substantive program they have is an education faculty (designed to produce morally upright graduates to guide the tender minds of the provinces youth).

Yes, francophone Monctonians are a truly oppressed minority.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

It's because officialdom in the capital of Ontario treats French as a nuisance that's imposed on them (and it's so obvious how GTA bureaucrats here treat you when you have the indignity of requesting for french services). The french fact just doesn't fit the narrative of the pretty multicultural mosaic of Toronto.

Many people are probably not aware of how much resistance there is to French in the private sector in Ottawa. When you think of Ottawa's national reputation and the federal government's, it's almost shocking how English only anything non-governmental is in Ottawa.

While bilingualism ramped up in Ottawa in the 70s and 80s, it's actually been regressing over the past 30 years. Places that used to have bilingual signs subtly replace them with English only signs.

I think a big part of it is a lingering bitterness in Ottawa over the bilingual staffing requirements in the federal public service.

And that the private sector won't "give in" to bilingualism... well... to French.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And yet the anglo community of Quebec cannot simply bask in the good fortune it has of being part of such a prodigious and ubiquitous culture, and still needs to make comparisons to Nazi Germany because signs at shopping malls say ENTRÉE, stop signs say ARRÊT, and demands that service staff add a "hi" to their "bonjour" to make them happy.

I generally find your posts interesting and thought provoking, but this took the level of discourse on this thread down several notches.

Unfortunate.