LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[citywatch]

I suddenly realize the map from urbanobserver doesn't even show the parking lot where the onni tower is going up. however, it does show #17...the lot across from macys plaza, where the apt tower from the devlpr from oregon is going up, & #20....the lot next to the brockman, where the carmel proj is going up.

iow, there are layers upon layers of areas throughout dt that need to be cleaned up, filled in. that photo also doesn't mark all the old rundown bldgs....all over the southern half of dt.....that ideally will eventually be torn down & replaced by something bigger & nicer.

dweebo2220 has a great set of pics of LA in ssp's photo forum. one of his posts is...

Originally Posted by dweebo2220

Thanks, everyone, for the kind words! And glad to hear others admiring LA's beauty like I do... sure it's rough around the edges and sometimes pretty hideous... but often it's absolutely gorgeous!

when ppl say the city can be sometimes pretty hideous, is that cuz the bldgs in dt aren't taller, not urban enough, too monolithic, cuz its newer projs aren't of pritzker prize quality? maybe so....but I kind of doubt it.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by brudy

I would be wary of using the Brockman as a model for anything. 3k/month for an interior facing studio is only an indicator that people aren't willing to overpay.

I don't know the specifics of all their apts & the ones that are taking longer to lease up. however, their first block of rentals did seem to move fairly quickly. The ones that are taking longer to be filled seem to be located in spots throughout the bldg that don't appear to be any better or worse than the others. I wish the Apex had a similar interactive map, since that's a much bigger proj, so there are more units that need to be rented....which would give a better sense of the amt of demand right now.

One reason why the apt projs from GH palmer have always been easy to track....to figure out how ppl were responding to them....is cuz their websites have always included a current list of unleased apts, going back to the beginning. that's why I know that while many ppl go about their design or the faux euro concept behind them, they've filled up surprisingly quickly....which is an even more telling sign since I believe he owns more apt units in dt than any other devlpr, so he has a lot more riding on his investments.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I don't know the specifics of all their apts & the ones that are taking longer to lease up. however, their first block of rentals did seem to move fairly quickly. The ones that are taking longer to be filled seem to be located in spots throughout the bldg that don't appear to be any better or worse than the others. I wish the Apex had a similar interactive map, since that's a much bigger proj, so there are more units that need to be rented....which would give a better sense of the amt of demand right now.

One reason why the apt projs from GH palmer have always been easy to track....to figure out how ppl were responding to them....is cuz their websites have always included a current list of unleased apts, going back to the beginning. that's why I know that while many ppl go about their design or the faux euro concept behind them, they've filled up surprisingly quickly....which is an even more telling sign since I believe he owns more apt units in dt than any other devlpr, so he has a lot more riding on his investments.

It's quite concerning to know the general public likes his designs. I wonder what Ace Hotel will think about being across the street from one of his monstrosities. Kind of ruins their entire 'hip' factor.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by HunterK

I wonder what Ace Hotel will think about being across the street from one of his monstrosities. Kind of ruins their entire 'hip' factor.

it's odd how he keeps cloning his bldgs, over & over again. He doesn't want his architect to modify more than a few tiny details, if even that. it's like he has a devlpr's version of tourette's syndrome.

I remember he originally was worried....back around 2000....that he'd flip the mkt, or cause so many new apts to flood into dt, that vacancies would soar & he & other owners would be hurt. maybe that early fear, & then the popularity of his projs, have made him sort of paranoid, overly cautious, & wanna do the same thing over & over...like a person with tourette's.

it really has gone beyond ridiculous that every one of his new bldgs looks like a twin of the others, including the new one going up near USC & the one that recently broke ground near the water & tower bldg. I can't believe he's so obsessed that he'd like to repeat the exact same formula on broadway. if he has any self respect, I'd think he would want to try doing something different there.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by HunterK

It's quite concerning to know the general public likes his designs. I wonder what Ace Hotel will think about being across the street from one of his monstrosities. Kind of ruins their entire 'hip' factor.

I have (a small bit of) faith that Donatello or April O'Neil or Casey Jones or whatever Palmer decides to build will fall into some sort of design guideline. Despite the success of Palmer's mutations (see what I did there), there is no way that what he builds in City West would wind up in the middle of downtown. Not to mention on Broadway next to a gem like the United Artists Theatre/Ace Hotel.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

I don't think anyone on this forum prefers what is being built at 8th and Grand to what was originally proposed by Sonni Astani. That proposal was superior in design, density, and effect on the skyline. But what's being built will still be a huge boon to the immediate area (and the surrounding areas), so it's still a win, at least in the short term, for downtown. And as Mojedo pointed out, the success of this - and it's relatively short height - will make the remaining surface lots surrounding it more attractive to higher density development as they will be in the middle of a more vibrant neighborhood and will have relatively protected views (a major selling point).

My only regret in this current iteration is that it's not being built to the density it was originally entitled for. I think this is a long-term mistake given its proximity to the 7th/Metro station one block away. Hopefully some of that unused density can be transferred to the surface lots across the street, and that the developers who eventually build there are savvy enough to request that from the City.

I agree 100%. People that gripe about 8th and Grand not being (for lack of a better word) 'grand' enough should only take a look at the giant parking lot map. Or what could best be described as Penthouse Pet of the Month for February 2013 (Penthouse if citywatch were in charge and not Larry Flint). Sure it's not as tall as it should be. But it isn't as if DTLA is devoid of any space for ground up development (as we are all keenly aware especially in the boom that DTLA is currently enjoying).

I happen to like 8th and Grand in it's current form. I'll save my final judgement for when we see new renderings but I do like how it activates the entire block. With the success of Botega Louie, I can only imagine what the outflow will be heading down Grand into South Park. I hope that iHope (which is next to IHOP ), 8th and Grand, as well as the Onni Tower will be a cataylist for development on the 2 blocks between Hope and Olive and 8th and 9th.

We've been saying it for years but Park Tower almost has to happen. I mean look at it.


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8042/parktower1rl4.jpg

^ Must happen. I lost any faith in Zen being built so Park Tower is my new white unicorn.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

^ Must happen. I lost any faith in Zen being built so Park Tower is my new white unicorn.

Never loose faith!

[brudy]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I have (a small bit of) faith that Donatello or April O'Neil or Casey Jones or whatever Palmer decides to build will fall into some sort of design guideline. Despite the success of Palmer's mutations (see what I did there), there is no way that what he builds in City West would wind up in the middle of downtown. Not to mention on Broadway next to a gem like the United Artists Theatre/Ace Hotel.

Are the building designs required to go through some kind of aesthetic approval process? Does Broadway get special treatment because of Huizar's Bringing Back Broadway initiative?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

^ Must happen. I lost any faith in Zen being built

If you're referring to the tower that was proposed for a site on Hill St near 4th, then I never took that seriously in the first place. Its owner always seemed very iffy to me. but it's merely one more location in dt that isn't shown on that map....along with the parkfifth tower originally planned across from pershing sq. That proj I DID take seriously, if only cuz the owner spent big $$ on elaborate models, a formal sales ctr, & a fairly sleek website.

Add up all the locations that need to be filled in or cleaned up....along with existing projs like the clark hotel & embassy bldg that are taking forever & ever to be completed & opened....then you can understand why I'm puzzled when ppl treat some new proj as a huge lost opportunity....sounding like its failings mean the hood will never recover.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by brudy

Are the building designs required to go through some kind of aesthetic approval process? Does Broadway get special treatment because of Huizar's Bringing Back Broadway initiative?

The latter, I believe.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I have (a small bit of) faith that Donatello or April O'Neil or Casey Jones or whatever Palmer decides to build will fall into some sort of design guideline. Despite the success of Palmer's mutations (see what I did there), there is no way that what he builds in City West would wind up in the middle of downtown. Not to mention on Broadway next to a gem like the United Artists Theatre/Ace Hotel.

Thats what I assumed at first. But then I thought about it.. Who (working for the city) would want to stop him? I'm sure they are beyond in love with him and what he's done.

Then I'm thinking, well the people will rise up because we hate his crap. But it's only a few of us here who dislike it so much.. The general public (with their beyond terrible taste in all things including architecture) loves looking at his buildings. Living in them. Etc.

On the flip side, if he were to surprise us all (which he won't) and build a magnificent tower that has 0 resemblance to his previous projects, he would be redeemed in my eyes at least.

[citywatch]

Along with the Santa Monica lease, Microsoft is taking 25,000-square-feet at the Reserve building just to the north of the Playa Vista complex. (The Reserve, formerly a Postal Service facility, is also where TMZ will be moving into.) The leases are further examples of how the Playa Vista area, along with Santa Monica and Venice, are morphing into a formidable media and technology presence - what boosters have been dubbing Silicon Beach. Google, You Tube, Facebook and others have established outposts in the area. The big loser in this migration is downtown L.A.: Microsoft is vacating 37,000 square feet at the Wells Fargo Tower, reports the Business Journal.

And some ppl think the biggest problem in dt is that its new projs aren't....tall enough, or lack stores on the 1st floor, or don't fit an urban ideal?

[brudy]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Thats what I assumed at first. But then I thought about it.. Who (working for the city) would want to stop him? I'm sure they are beyond in love with him and what he's done.

Then I'm thinking, well the people will rise up because we hate his crap. But it's only a few of us here who dislike it so much.. The general public (with their beyond terrible taste in all things including architecture) loves looking at his buildings. Living in them. Etc.

On the flip side, if he were to surprise us all (which he won't) and build a magnificent tower that has 0 resemblance to his previous projects, he would be redeemed in my eyes at least.

Don't be too sure people love living in his buildings. Yelp has the Orsini at 2 stars, although it's mostly for security issues. Reading some of those reviews makes J.G. Ballard's stories look positively utopian.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by citywatch

And some ppl think the biggest problem in dt is that its new projs aren't....tall enough, or lack stores on the 1st floor, or don't fit an urban ideal?

37k square feet? In the DTLA vacant office space big picture (millions upon millions of vacant offices), thats nothing. Nada. Zip.

Originally Posted by brudy

Don't be too sure people love living in his buildings. Yelp has the Orsini at 2 stars, although it's mostly for security issues. Reading some of those reviews makes J.G. Ballard's stories look positively utopian.

Thats good news. I haven't looked at their reviews, I'm just going off of the crazy people I've met who live in his buildings and rave about it.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by citywatch

And some ppl think the biggest problem in dt is that its new projs aren't....tall enough, or lack stores on the 1st floor, or don't fit an urban ideal?

If I had a dollar for every post you made that included the words "biggest problem in downtown is that new projects aren't tall enough," I could lease 37,000 square feet of office space in the Wells Fargo Tower.

Office tenants come and go. Tech companies like being near tech companies, thus Playa Vista/Santa Monica makes more sense than downtown. Electronic Arts is basically across the street from that old post office. ICANN is headquartered a few blocks east on Jefferson. Youtube has a large office within Playa Vista. You get the picture.

For the record, the Wells Fargo/KPMG complex is actually one of the stronger performers in the downtown office market. I did the math for their occupancy rate a few months back, and they were well over 90%. They take a hit by losing Microsoft, but overall it's not that bad.

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by citywatch

And some ppl think the biggest problem in dt hats new projs aren't....tall enough, or lack stores on the 1st floor, or don't fit an urban ideal?

Seriously, why do you feel the need to repeat yourself 1000000 times (you basically repeated the same thing from post #6881)? You're not going to change anyone's mind. This is SkyscraperPage not BuildAnythingPage. I'm not hating on 7 story buildings, I just don't think building just any low density un-pedestrian friendly crap with zero retail will be good in the long run.

Btw, the Onni project site on the parking lot map is #61

[DJM19]

I don't have a problem with 8th/Grands height, I have a problem with its width. If it was the same height but on 1/4 the land, I would think its perfectly fine. I think Downtown needs some kind of design guidline for non-commercial structures that says a buildings width to height ratio cant be greater than 1.5:1...i'm even willing to say no greater than 1.25:1. This should prevent projects from being monoliths in width. It breaks up the facade along the sidewalk, adding more visual interest and character.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by DJM19

I don't have a problem with 8th/Grands height, I have a problem with its width. If it was the same height but on 1/4 the land, I would think its perfectly fine. I think Downtown needs some kind of design guidline for non-commercial structures that says a buildings width to height ratio cant be greater than 1.5:1...i'm even willing to say no greater than 1.25:1. This should prevent projects from being monoliths in width. It breaks up the facade along the sidewalk, adding more visual interest and character.

Of course, many cities have floor-area ratio requirements but this usually is used to limit density.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by citywatch

But regrettably I think we're a long way off from much of the land being filled up....fixed up....as you describe...

Why do you say that? If anything, to me it's the complete opposite. We're still in a "recovery", and there has already been ENORMOUS progress on several fronts, and the movement just keeps building.

We've only barely started. We havent even hit the economic boom years yet...

I'm very curious as to basis of your predictions...

One thing you fail to realize is that not only are there plans in the pipeline for many of those parking lots, but that several of them are taking up MORE THAN ONE.

I don't have a crystal ball

Obviously not, since you've been completely wrong on the momentum for quite a while now.

but I suspect that current trends won't change so dramatically in the immediate future, that the hood will become like an urban version of the new burbs. I hope I'm wrong, but the past doesn't lead me to believe otherwise.

Here you go again, looking toward a past time period; one in which downtown lacked NUMEROUS characteristics it has now for the better.

btw, that image above doesn't even show all the parking lots & gaps around the civic ctr, around the OBD, on bunker hill, around little tokyo, & so on & so forth. There's plenty...plenty....of spaces that need filling in.

So? Not every parking lot is gonna get built on before developers start to tear down existing structures.

[ConstructDTLA]

Took some more pics today at lunchtime for those of you living out in the 'burbs.



Imagine a day when Coco Laurents patio is filled. Hope they hang in there long enough!



More to follow.