Phoenix Development News (3)

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

True - but didn't the city just issue permits for Barrister and supposedly the Central Station building is a "go" . . . has the city done any other RFPs similar in the past with vacant plots or buildings?

I don't think any permits were pulled for Barrister - the sale of the land was just finalized. For both that project and Central Station, I'll believe it when the shovel hits the ground. Not a single market rate or owner-occupied multifamily project has broken ground in downtown since Roosevelt Point, which could actually be considered student housing, aside from the 3rd Ave Townhomes. I don't know if financing just isn't available or what, but we've been waiting ages for some of these projects.

Some other RFP's:
- CityScape was the result of an RFP, IIRC, for the PSP block at the very least
- JSED was also the result of an RFP for an entertainment district, but wasn't tied to any specific city-owned land; this was a failed project that resulted in a PUD on the blocks from the railroad tracks - Lincoln, 4th Street - 3rd Street where the Ballpark Apartments are planned... but have yet to break ground
- ArtHAUS on 1st Ave/McDowell was the result of an RFP after the Opera/Ballet Arizona didn't use the western portion of their plot; AFAIK, construction has yet to begin
- I believe Central/Adams was RFP'd and was to become an Aloft during the boom days; obviously, that project failed and the lot has been talked about again recently with the Adams Street Activation study and project
- Currently, there is an RFP out for the vacant retail along Adams from 2nd Ave - 2nd Street, as well as a few spaces within the Convention Center; I have no idea how that's going but I haven't heard of any new tenants
- As mentioned, the city RFP'd two historic homes and a vacant lot on 2nd avenue for restoration/development; MetroWest has since renovated the existing homes, but I don't know the status of the vacant lot... according to the agreement, I believe they were supposed to have started construction on it by the end of 2014
- The City recently issued an RFP for land near the Mayo Clinic for a 2nd Bioscience hub... a terrible decision, IMO, when the downtown campus has been built up so slowly and could use as many city resources as possible to get it booming with new employers
- The City is preparing to RFP the land of the former Pappas School between 4th and 5th Avenues (VB - Fillmore); I foresee that one being a real cluster of poor designs

[PHX31]

Does anyone know what's happening on the south side of Virginia Ave between 7th St and 3rd St? They are demolishing a big semi-crappy office plaza, including all of the mature ficus trees along the street ().

I'd assume they're just going to try to sell the land and it will sit empty forever, but I'm not sure.

[PHX31]

Did anyone else see this posted on Vanishing Phoenix's Facebook page?

https://www.facebook.com/10207040651...type=1&theater

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Did anyone else see this posted on Vanishing Phoenix's Facebook page?

https://www.facebook.com/10207040651...type=1&theater

Wow. I just had lunch at Paz Cantina today and thought that if anyone can make this space work after two high-profile restaurant failures at the same site, Paz can. What a shame if the restaurant has to leave after just a few months, but maybe they can find another location Downtown. The bigger questions are what we'd lose with the demolition of the current buildings and how well the proposed new building will interact with the new Roosevelt streetscape.

[Jjs5056]

Virginia
The Virginia site might be for a new Native Connections project. A grant was given to a project named "Virginia @3rd" recently -- but no address or other details were provided aside from the developer. In a city with so few new market rate residential breaking ground, I'm not too fond of the percentage of restricted housing that's been built since the boom. I'm also borderline with these projects' designs; the one on 2nd Avenue is fairly nice and urban for the location, but I think anything built on Central should have a mixed use component which that one is missing.

Roosevelt
As for the second Wood Development project, I'm a big believer in HP, especially in downtown and in the Roosevelt Row area where a sense of place seems somewhat attainable if the right projects connected some of the dots. But, that piece of Roosevelt is a huge gap in connecting said dots, especially if built along with the projects at Roosevelt/3rd and Roosevelt/4th.

Because of its potential to create a unified streetscape from 7th-7th essentially (with those other projects), and the need for housing, housing, and more housing in this area, I am almost sold on my support of it.

However...
1) I need to see the design in detail... any design should include space where the local businesses being displaced could be relocated or replaced by other, new local establishments, especially along Roosevelt given that the other two projects won't feature any ground level uses.
2) Part of me feels its just civically irresponsible for any developer to come into this neighborhood and remove ANY existing structures; it smells of greed and lack of any attempt to give the project context. IMO, rather than demo-ing, there should be a conscious effort on their part to incorporate the buildings as part of a unique mixed use project, or to work with the city on moving the structures to any of the blighted empty lots that plague downtown.

With "The Row" project falling through and no guarantee that a new RFP will bring successful bids, the City should consider having all of these buildings moved to the lots along 2nd Street surrounding - and across from - the Knipe House. I don't know what tools or resources they have to make it happen, but given the fact that they are responsible for clearing out Evans Churchill and land-banking most of the lots for a Biomedical campus that might never come, the least they could do is try to use their influence to create some semblance of connectivity.

In fact, I would actually prefer that the houses be moved to those lots than stay in their current position regardless. If clustered together, and in proximity of Carly's, The Nash, and all of the other establishments in the area, they'd make much more of an impact as adaptively reused retail. Clustering retail arround the Knipe House might also spark interest in that property from a developer vs. trying to sell the house along with barren wasteland as they currently are through the RFP. Lastly, even if this Wood project fails, clearing the land between 3rd and 4th would make a future sale and development more likely.

[Jjs5056]

^ exit kind of beat me to it; and, I also wonder how the CANVAS property fits into this? The owners went through the hassle of redeveloping it, and actively pursuing tenants only to sell out to a developer? Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by that, but I am.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Virginia
The Virginia site might be for a new Native Connections project. A grant was given to a project named "Virginia @3rd" recently -- but no address or other details were provided aside from the developer. In a city with so few new market rate residential breaking ground, I'm not too fond of the percentage of restricted housing that's been built since the boom. I'm also borderline with these projects' designs; the one on 2nd Avenue is fairly nice and urban for the location, but I think anything built on Central should have a mixed use component which that one is missing.

I think you're right. Check this out: http://www.nativeconnections.org/new...rginia-on-3rd/

Given that I live right near there and drive by it every day, their plans actually sound pretty good to me. Not perfect, and I'm still mad they cut down all those trees, but I'm sure it will have new trees and it's better than the land sitting vacant.

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Roosevelt
As for the second Wood Development project, I'm a big believer in HP, especially in downtown and in the Roosevelt Row area where a sense of place seems somewhat attainable if the right projects connected some of the dots. But, that piece of Roosevelt is a huge gap in connecting said dots, especially if built along with the projects at Roosevelt/3rd and Roosevelt/4th.

Because of its potential to create a unified streetscape from 7th-7th essentially (with those other projects), and the need for housing, housing, and more housing in this area, I am almost sold on my support of it.

However...
1) I need to see the design in detail... any design should include space where the local businesses being displaced could be relocated or replaced by other, new local establishments, especially along Roosevelt given that the other two projects won't feature any ground level uses.
2) Part of me feels its just civically irresponsible for any developer to come into this neighborhood and remove ANY existing structures; it smells of greed and lack of any attempt to give the project context. IMO, rather than demo-ing, there should be a conscious effort on their part to incorporate the buildings as part of a unique mixed use project, or to work with the city on moving the structures to any of the blighted empty lots that plague downtown.

With "The Row" project falling through and no guarantee that a new RFP will bring successful bids, the City should consider having all of these buildings moved to the lots along 2nd Street surrounding - and across from - the Knipe House. I don't know what tools or resources they have to make it happen, but given the fact that they are responsible for clearing out Evans Churchill and land-banking most of the lots for a Biomedical campus that might never come, the least they could do is try to use their influence to create some semblance of connectivity.

In fact, I would actually prefer that the houses be moved to those lots than stay in their current position regardless. If clustered together, and in proximity of Carly's, The Nash, and all of the other establishments in the area, they'd make much more of an impact as adaptively reused retail. Clustering retail arround the Knipe House might also spark interest in that property from a developer vs. trying to sell the house along with barren wasteland as they currently are through the RFP. Lastly, even if this Wood project fails, clearing the land between 3rd and 4th would make a future sale and development more likely.

This is precisely how I feel and I like your ideas. Glad you're much better than me in putting together your thoughts.

[Jjs5056]

Some more (outdated) positive news in the meantime...

Marriott is launching an incubator program for food and beverage entrepreneurs, and the first two properties selected are a JW Marriott in China, and the downtown Phoenix Renaissance. Random, but it sounds like a really cool opportunity to get a new, locally inspired restaurant along an area that the City has shown interest in investing in (Adams between 2nd St and Central).

I hope the new restaurant is 1) open to the public/street vs. a lobby establishment or something similarly insular, and 2) reflects the visions outlined in the Adams St Activation Study. IOW, I hope the outward design is urban and includes a nice patio that is engaging and adds to the street scene and isn't just a small sign underneath those huge arches.

http://www.meetings-conventions.com/...novations-Lab/

In other 2014 hotel news, Best Western is expanding with 2 new brands: a boutique brand Vib, and the BW Premier Collection. Being a Phoenix-based chain, it would be great if they could launch one of those in downtown... there seems to be a lack of both these types of hotels - the "hip" lifestyle brands (AC Marriott, Element, Hilton Canvas, Indigo, Aloft, etc.) and the more upscale brands (Hilton, JW Marriott, W, Omni, etc.). Seems like either would be a perfect fit for the convention market; Adams/Central, please?

http://www.meetings-conventions.com/...ds-Two-Brands/

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I think you're right. Check this out: http://www.nativeconnections.org/new...rginia-on-3rd/

Given that I live right near there and drive by it every day, their plans actually sound pretty good to me. Not perfect, and I'm still mad they cut down all those trees, but I'm sure it will have new trees and it's better than the land sitting vacant.

They've also built two successful projects and received at least one grant (and are/were eligible for additional ones given the uses) so at least the possibility of it sitting vacant/stalled is pretty low. I just Google Mapped the area and they cleared out a LOT if they really went all the way to 7th. Especially sad over the trees - I wasn't expecting to see that many even though you mentioned them.

Question - how far east did they demo along Virginia? Did they clear all the way to 7th, including Bandaids? I hope it's gone, because 1) it's disgusting, and 2) it's the only property with a parking lot fronting Virginia - and a huge one at that. If they left it, I'd say the development is a wash... they really aren't creating any infill or removing any vacant lots or parking lots even.

Here is a rendering of the housing component: http://www.nativeconnections.org/hou...er-development ; decent design as usual. Built to the street, 4 levels (so decent density), and they at least have the lobby/leasing center fronting Virginia with storefront glass. It makes for a nice TOD development, even if there is no retail... which I don't think would be appropriate or needed anyway, unless it does indeed front 7th Street as well, as I could see retail doing well along there. Anyway, it's hard to tell where on the block it's located because the rehab center will probably go just west judging by what looks to be a parking lot for it in the rendering.

Also, more thoughts on the Wood Partners' project - the more I look at it, the more I think they're a terrible company, even if I'm still almost okay with the project. But, it's a huge footprint for what will likely be only 200 or so apartments. I bet it's no taller than 4 stories, and it has a large garage fronting 3rd Street. They could have easily built higher, and/or wrapped the garage, or placed it below the apartments (whether underground or on floors 2-5 or what not)... this would've allowed them to build up to the Bodega house instead of on top of it. They're leaving the house behind it, so it really would've just taken a small design modification to salvage what's probably the biggest loss. Had they known anything about the area, they would know how important local businesses are, how important historic preservation is to the area, and how important it is to save any in-tact structures given the dominance of empty lots. Instead, they didn't bother getting creative with the design (clean it up and lease it out for retail? use it as the leasing center, gym, and/or clubhouse for the complex?), or modifying it to get the same density in a smaller footprint.

Anyway, I still think the 2 houses should be moved, but I think Vanishing Phoenix might be making a big deal over nothing. CANVAS was a cool project, but the building it sits in is hardly a gem; as long as there is retail included, no big loss there. And, to mention the ARTS Market seems counterintuitive -the T in ARTS stands for TEMPORARY. We've lost a lot more than 2 houses for lesser projects, or worse - stalled/abandoned projects. They should know that these local businesses need a stronger residential base in order to survive. Between the 3 projects scheduled for this intersection, almost 600 units are being proposed. That's HUGE for Roosevelt Row, which has no permanent market rate housing outside Artisan Village west of 1st avenue. 600 units is what will keep businesses at Artisan alive, allow a place like Bodega to survive the next time, motivate Matt Poole to open something in the former Tavern, make a company with deeper pockets see potential in more expensive retail sites like Roosevelt Pointe... the problem is that even if this project includes retail, it needs to actually be affordable for small businesses, or else Roosevelt Row will lose its identity.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

They've also built two successful projects and received at least one grant (and are/were eligible for additional ones given the uses) so at least the possibility of it sitting vacant/stalled is pretty low. I just Google Mapped the area and they cleared out a LOT if they really went all the way to 7th. Especially sad over the trees - I wasn't expecting to see that many even though you mentioned them... they'd better have a great landscape plan.

Question - did they raze Bandaids on 7th or did they stop with the property just west? I hope it's gone, because 1) it's disgusting, and 2) it's the only property with a parking lot fronting Virginia - and a huge one at that. If they left it, I'd say the development is a wash... they really aren't creating any infill or removing any vacant lots or parking lots even.

They only razed the one building that had the inner courtyard and parts of the parking lot. They have the whole area fenced off from the ~4 story office building on 3rd St (not a part) to the small 1 story medical/office buildings (not a part). Unfortunately Bandaids is still going strong.

[Jjs5056]

Thanks; sucks that Bandaids remains, but I'm glad they didn't demo much more than they did. This ( http://www.nativeconnections.org/hou...er-development ) is much denser and an upgrade from what was there. I thought that was going to be covering much more land that's currently developed, which made me question it a little.

[HooverDam]

RE: Developments on Roosevelt:

The developer is being lazy to be frank. Demolishing the canvas building and the historic homes will be a major loss. They're the sort of human scaled, fine grained buildings that have helped make the area appealing in the first place. Multiple projects built right around the same time, with the same massing, etc. will likely turn that section of Roosevelt into a soulless blah. Roosevelt Point already looks like a Soviet Block apartment building for the 21st century. While I appreciate the density, they can design in a more sensitive way.

A smart developer would build a little taller and around the existing structures. In addition to losing the buildings, their project also appears to necessitate an alley abandonment. So it seems pretty terrible so far.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

A smart developer would build a little taller and around the existing structures. In addition to losing the buildings, their project also appears to necessitate an alley abandonment. So it seems pretty terrible so far.

I think smart is the wrong word. The developer is likely doing what is cheapest and results in the most profits for them. I would classify that as smart.

A concerned developer who is willing to make less money in order to deliver a nicer project and maintain historic buildings is what I think we all are hoping to see more of, or at least see the city mandate such things.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I think smart is the wrong word. The developer is likely doing what is cheapest and results in the most profits for them. I would classify that as smart.

A concerned developer who is willing to make less money in order to deliver a nicer project and maintain historic buildings is what I think we all are hoping to see more of, or at least see the city mandate such things.

In the long run, I would assert doing the latter option makes you more profit, and opens up the potential for vastly greater future profits by not degrading the area you're investing in.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

RE: Developments on Roosevelt:

The developer is being lazy to be frank. Demolishing the canvas building and the historic homes will be a major loss. They're the sort of human scaled, fine grained buildings that have helped make the area appealing in the first place. Multiple projects built right around the same time, with the same massing, etc. will likely turn that section of Roosevelt into a soulless blah. Roosevelt Point already looks like a Soviet Block apartment building for the 21st century. While I appreciate the density, they can design in a more sensitive way.

A smart developer would build a little taller and around the existing structures. In addition to losing the buildings, their project also appears to necessitate an alley abandonment. So it seems pretty terrible so far.

Yes, thank you for saying what I wanted to in a much more concise way. I am okay with losing the Canvas building in exchange for a quality project that interacted with its surroundings appropriately, which means: 1) a small (in the grand scheme) design change to save the old Bodega building, 2) providing affordable retail space so that the small businesses being displaced have some opportunity of relocating or at least being replaced; developments like Skyline have managed to lease space at an affordable rate AND preserve areas for art installations/galleries - there's no reason this development can't do the same, 3) creating a quality urban design that is friendly at the ground level (shade, massing, etc.) where retail does not exist.

It's a catch 22. The buildings being demolished (and Roosevelt Point) sit empty because there aren't enough permanent residents nearby to support that amount/type of retail. Yet, in order to get that density, the overall character and attraction of the area is threatened. They need to come back with a design that includes retail along Roosevelt, integrates that heinous parking garage, and reduces the unnecessary courtyards in order to preserve at least the Bodega house.

The one development on 3rd/Roosevelt (Scientology building) seems like it is going out of its way to incorporate public art and fit into the Roosevelt Row landscape. But, it will still be creating a massive deadzone in the fabric of Roosevelt if all of 2nd - 5th is essentially apartment walls. 20' sidewalks for what?

[Jjs5056]

Looks like the Marriott CANVAS project I wrote about earlier will be taking over the spot formerly occupied by Starbucks on Central/Adams. The space is only 1400 square feet - I was hoping it was for the corner of Adams/1st Street - but I really hope some great ideas are submitted that incorporate an indoor/outdoor setup to activate that intersection. It would've been neat to have had Adams turn into what they've done at the airport with clustering together all of the top restaurants in the Valley (obviously, not the ones with a downtown presence). Conventioneers are looking more and more for an authentic experience when they travel and what better way than to give them a taste of our food scene? Ah well - hopefully at least this corner offers something local and inspired. A coffee shop would really suck.

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/27...aurant-concept

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Looks like the Marriott CANVAS project I wrote about earlier will be taking over the spot formerly occupied by Starbucks on Central/Adams. The space is only 1400 square feet - I was hoping it was for the corner of Adams/1st Street - but I really hope some great ideas are submitted that incorporate an indoor/outdoor setup to activate that intersection. It would've been neat to have had Adams turn into what they've done at the airport with clustering together all of the top restaurants in the Valley (obviously, not the ones with a downtown presence). Conventioneers are looking more and more for an authentic experience when they travel and what better way than to give them a taste of our food scene? Ah well - hopefully at least this corner offers something local and inspired. A coffee shop would really suck.

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/27...aurant-concept

If Paz Cantina must leave the other Canvas, the building at 3rd St. & Roosevelt, I wonder if this could be a good new home for the restaurant. The Downtown core really needs authentic Mexican food. Visitors expect it and are disappointed when told they need to travel to other parts of town for it.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

If Paz Cantina must leave the other Canvas, the building at 3rd St. & Roosevelt, I wonder if this could be a good new home for the restaurant. The Downtown core really needs authentic Mexican food. Visitors expect it and are disappointed when told they need to travel to other parts of town for it.

While there is no such thing as too much good Mexican food - Fuego at Cityscape is awesome, and any good concierge would recommend a quick Uber to Carolina's on 12th St. to any Downtown visitor looking for authentic Mexican food.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

If Paz Cantina must leave the other Canvas, the building at 3rd St. & Roosevelt, I wonder if this could be a good new home for the restaurant. The Downtown core really needs authentic Mexican food. Visitors expect it and are disappointed when told they need to travel to other parts of town for it.

Unfortunately, the deadline is next week and given that they just opened, I doubt they were made aware of the fact that they may need to relocate in the not so distant future.

I agree that an authentic Mexican restaurant is one of the best options for the space. I would love a microbrewery to open along Adams, but the space just isn't large enough. It would be neat for the Mexican place to incorporate an outdoor ordering window and/or food truck, along with patio seating.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

While there is no such thing as too much good Mexican food - Fuego at Cityscape is awesome, and any good concierge would recommend a quick Uber to Carolina's on 12th St. to any Downtown visitor looking for authentic Mexican food.

Thanks for the reminder about Fuego. That is a good place that doesn't always get the recognition it deserves.