Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

To my knowledge Céline Dion never recorded a French version of My Heart Will Go On (the Titanic song).

In Quebec you hear both French and English material by Céline on the radio.

My favourite songs of hers tend to be the ones written by the Parisian Jean-Jacques Goldman. (I tend to like Goldman's style in general.)

Dion has always been a better artist singing in French, imho.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Ah, Roch Voisine! The girls were crazy about him. Never understood it. Wasn't he gay anyway?

There were rumours about him being gay for decades, but he's never had any known relationships other than with women, including some very long ones. (And has had kids with them.)

[kwoldtimer]

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[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm a late Gen X almost Millennial. Obviously I grew up with Celine Dion. I have come across Zoomers who basically bucket her into some old lady their parents listened to. For them Drake would carry far more name recognition. It might be different with Francophone Zoomers. And when it comes to Alphas?

What's with North American and this ridiculous way of "labeling" generations with silly names, as if we weren't some diverse individuals, but just fitted in a box. Americans love to do that, always putting people in a box.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Something else y'all are forgetting is how exposure to music works in the modern world. Kids don't listen to the radio anymore. They listen to Spotify. They are having their tastes reinforced by the algorithm.

Algorithms are a pain in the ass. Youtube always serves me the same songs, I feel like killing them. That's why I prefer to listen to the radio. More diversity. And you stumble upon songs you hadn't listened to in a long time.

Also keep in mind that when people drive, they are more likely to listen to the radio than to Deezer or other online platforms.

Also don't underestimate the intelligence and curiosity of younger generations. They know there's a world out there beyond their bubble, and just as I like to listen to 1920s Jazz music which was way before my time, because I made the conscious decision to explore, they will explore too what came before them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think this is very generational. I'm a late Gen X almost Millennial. Obviously I grew up with Celine Dion. I have come across Zoomers who basically bucket her into some old lady their parents listened to. For them Drake would carry far more name recognition. It might be different with Francophone Zoomers. And when it comes to Alphas? Most of them definitely have no clue who she is, because they are listening to what's on Spotify or YouTube right now and are unlikely to be familiar with her.

As for what today's teens are listening to in 2040, it's more likely to be Drake than Celine Dion. Though probably more likely to be BTS than Drake, Lol. I think some of you forget how these age cohorts work and what they were exposed to. Zoomers come from 1997 to 2012. Alphas come from 2013 onwards. The oldest Zoomers have just finished university. Most are finishing high school and starting university now. Alphas are still in elementary school and are more likely to be familiar with Baby Shark than Celine Dion.

Something else y'all are forgetting is how exposure to music works in the modern world. Kids don't listen to the radio anymore. They listen to Spotify. They are having their tastes reinforced by the algorithm. Chances your Alpha will be exposed to Celine Dion by the algorithm are rather low.

I recently made a Seinfeld reference to a middle Millennial I commute with. He did not get it at all. Yet, I don't know any Anglo Gen X who doesn't know Seinfeld. I think people forget how quickly pop culture can age.

I don't think it's a question of having everyone in Gen Z around the world being familiar with Céline Dion, but rather that more of them know her than the number of people outside of Drake's core generational market know him.

My guess is that by metric Céline still wins this easily. This may change over time of course as older people pass on and younger generations come to dominate.

YMMV though and age isn't the only factor. People from my generation were all born after the Beatles broke up, but I'd say the Beatles are more well-known among us (with more hummable and singable songs) than someone like Dr. Dre is, even though he was huge in his heyday and closer to us in age and time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It doesn't have to do much with booze and partying. It's more how many from Quebec from my observations try to fit in with the local culture and more common among those aged 50 and up. I've seen them also pretend that they are pro-socialist/communist and that the system there is wonderful, especially among the lefty pro-sovereignty types. It also happens among some Canadians from other parts of Canada but not to the same degree.

OK thanks for clarifying that. Yes, some Québécois will do this, though obviously it's still just a minority.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My favourite songs of hers tend to be the ones written by the Parisian Jean-Jacques Goldman. (I tend to like Goldman's style in general.)

Yeah, Jean-Jacques Goldman was a genius. A lot of these French artists were. If Americans weren't language-racists, so to speak, they would have achieved much more worldwide fame. I'm thinking Mylène Farmer for example, she should be as world famous as Prince or Cher. Her only "problem" is she sings in French, not in English.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yeah, Jean-Jacques Goldman was a genius. A lot of these French artists were. If Americans weren't language-racists, so to speak, they would have achieved much more worldwide fame. I'm thinking Mylène Farmer for example, she should be as world famous as Prince or Cher. Her only "problem" is she sings in French, not in English.

I think her problem is she has no voice and her material is mediocre and repetitive at best. To compare her to Prince… comment dire ?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My kids and their friends listen to Aya Nakamura, so as a result I would recognize that song of hers immediately.

Not our best cultural export.

But I had a feeling you would say that considering the "blédardisation" of Montréal you (and a few others) have been describing. It oddly rapproche nos deux pays, in a way.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What's with North American and this ridiculous way of "labeling" generations with silly names, as if we weren't some diverse individuals, but just fitted in a box. Americans love to do that, always putting people in a box.

It's a more accurate way of categorizing demographics. If I say "young people" you will have no idea what ages I am referring to.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Also keep in mind that when people drive, they are more likely to listen to the radio than to Deezer or other online platforms.

New cars all come with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. The likelihood that kids will listen to the radio over streaming services in the car, goes down with every single car sale.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think it's a question of having everyone in Gen Z around the world being familiar with Céline Dion, but rather that more of them know her than the number of people outside of Drake's core generational market know him.

My guess is that by metric Céline still wins this easily. This may change over time of course as older people pass on and younger generations come to dominate.

I would honestly bet the other way with Zoomers. Seriously. Again, I think in these conversations people are mixing up Millennials and Zoomers. Millennials are 80s/90s kids who grew up watching the Titanic. That single song alone imprinted Celine Dion in the heads of many of that generation. Literally every Zoomer and Alpha was born after that movie came out. Think of the 2010s when all these Zoomers were in elementary school and high school. How much Celine Dion do you think they were exposed to, compared to Drake?

Originally Posted by Acajack

YMMV though and age isn't the only factor. People from my generation were all born after the Beatles broke up, but I'd say the Beatles are more well-known among us (with more hummable and singable songs) than someone like Dr. Dre is, even though he was huge in his heyday and closer to us in age and time.

I would chalk this up to Gen X being so much smaller than the Baby Boomers and basically having Boomer tastes largely imposed on Gen X. And also radio. I just don't think it works the same way anymore with streaming services.

I think some of y'all are projecting. It's hard to admit that we're old and not with it anymore. So we tend to say things like, "Of course these young uns will discover and like exactly the stuff we like in another two decades." I just don't see things working like that. Personally, I'm a big fan of Motown. And the best of that was 60s/70s. But I am not by any chance going to pretend that there's more young people today who know who recognize Diana Ross or Marvin Gaye than Drake or that The Temptations will have the same recognition as BTS among teenagers.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I think her problem is she has no voice and her material is mediocre and repetitive at best. To compare her to Prince… comment dire ?

She's an absolute show-woman. I've never been a fan, back when we were teenagers my sister listened to Mylène Farmer all the time in her bedroom and that drove me nuts as I didn't like her at all, but now I've come to appreciate her actually. She has 3 to 4 songs that are really great, and you can't deny that she really puts on a show only the likes of Prince or Cher were able to do, filling entire stadiums with pyrotechnics effects. She also has an incredibly devoted fan base. They meet in groups just to talk about their idol Mylène Farmer. I knew a 18 y/o a few years ago who was part of one of these groups.

If French was the world language instead of English, there is absolutely no doubt she would be one of the most famous singers worldwide.

• Video Link

Her 2019 concerts had a spectacular start. Few artists are able to do that these days...

• Video Link

[Acajack]

LOL at the idea that Mylène Farmer has less of a voice than Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears or even... Taylor Swift!

And her material isn't any more repetitive than any of these above or many other huge global stars of today.

I mean, we can like or not like, but there is no way these three songs are repetitive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYRZxaC6psk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAS2XAvINtc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmC9Hj73C0

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's a more accurate way of categorizing demographics. If I say "young people" you will have no idea what ages I am referring to.

There's no such thing as a "zoomer" or an "alpha" (first time I hear these names anyways, they are not used here). There are diverse individuals with diverse personalities and interests.

In any case in France young people now define themselves according to their birth year, which I find ugly. Recently I met a guy born in 2006, and the first thing he told me was "je suis un 2006". So here you're not a millennial or a zoomer or a whatever name, but you're "un 2006", or "un 2010". The "2006" are known to harass the "2010" and make fun of them, etc.

NOTE to the Québecois forumers here: don't tell me teenagers in Montréal now also call themselves "un 2010", or "un 2008"?

[Truenorth00]

Alors, je viens de découvrir Claude Dubois. J'aime beaucoup ses chansons. Vous pouvez observer: je suis démodé comme ça.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There's no such thing as a "zoomer" or an "alpha" (first time I hear these names anyways, they are not used here). There are diverse individuals with diverse personalities and interests.

In any case in France young people now define themselves according to their birth year, which I find ugly. Recently I met a guy born in 2006, and the first thing he told me was "je suis un 2006". So here you're not a millennial or a zoomer or a whatever name, but you're "un 2006", or "un 2010". The "2006" are known to harass the "2010" and make fun of them, etc.

NOTE to the Québecois forumers here: don't tell me teenagers in Montréal now also call themselves "un 2010", or "un 2008"?

Just checked with one of my kids, and apparently they don't do this. But we are in Gatineau, not Montreal.

Though I personally do jokingly say about my kids "c'est un modèle 2004"...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Alors, je viens de découvrir Claude Dubois. J'aime beaucoup ses chansons. Vous pouvez observer: je suis démodé comme ça.

Bravo!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There's no such thing as a "zoomer" or an "alpha" (first time I hear these names anyways, they are not used here). There are diverse individuals with diverse personalities and interests.

In any case in France young people now define themselves according to their birth year, which I find ugly. Recently I met a guy born in 2006, and the first thing he told me was "je suis un 2006". So here you're not a millennial or a zoomer or a whatever name, but you're "un 2006", or "un 2010". The "2006" are known to harass the "2010" and make fun of them, etc.

Good for France. These terms became common in the US because of Neil Howe and William Strauss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straus...ational_theory

And they are in common use in Canada. Even if Canadians apply the labels wrongly.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just checked with one of my kids, and apparently they don't do this. But we are in Gatineau, not Montreal.

Though I personally do jokingly say about my kids "c'est un modèle 2004"...

I am fairly sure I've seen generational labels in franco media. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think talking about Millennials or Zoomers or X'ers or Boomers is a particularly anglo thing.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAS2XAvINtc

This song is one of the best songs that was ever made about California. It's my favorite song by Mylène Farmer too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's a more accurate way of categorizing demographics. If I say "young people" you will have no idea what ages I am referring to.



New cars all come with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. The likelihood that kids will listen to the radio over streaming services in the car, goes down with every single car sale.



I would honestly bet the other way with Zoomers. Seriously. Again, I think in these conversations people are mixing up Millennials and Zoomers. Millennials are 80s/90s kids who grew up watching the Titanic. That single song alone imprinted Celine Dion in the heads of many of that generation. Literally every Zoomer and Alpha was born after that movie came out. Think of the 2010s when all these Zoomers were in elementary school and high school. How much Celine Dion do you think they were exposed to, compared to Drake?



I would chalk this up to Gen X being so much smaller than the Baby Boomers and basically having Boomer tastes largely imposed on Gen X. And also radio. I just don't think it works the same way anymore with streaming services.

I think some of y'all are projecting. It's hard to admit that we're old and not with it anymore. So we tend to say things like, "Of course these young uns will discover and like exactly the stuff we like in another two decades." I just don't see things working like that. Personally, I'm a big fan of Motown. And the best of that was 60s/70s. But I am not by any chance going to pretend that there's more young people today who know who recognize Diana Ross or Marvin Gaye than Drake or that The Temptations will have the same recognition as BTS among teenagers.

I think you may have misunderstood. I am not saying that more Zoomers know Céline than Drake. I am saying that among all people alive right now things tilt to Céline and this is partly because older non-Zoomer demographics are more numerous and because Céline penetrates with Zoomers (even if all Zoomers might not know her) more than Drake penetrates with Gen Xers, Boomers and maybe even Millenials slightly.

The numbers don't add up for Drake's admittedly huge current renown among Zoomers pushing him over the edge to make him more famous than Céline among the entire living population of all ages.