Halifax Population & Growth

[DB_in_Cbus]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Maritime Bus seems to have the inter-city(community) travel well under control:

Screenshot 2023-07-31 4.37.12 PM by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

One of my nephews visiting from Vancouver this summer used the bus service between Halifax and Bridgewater on a few occasions and thought it fine other than the issue of how do you get to your final destination upon arrival in your destination community. Upon arrival in Halifax he used Uber rather than public transit. The Uber use inspite of the fact that city bus service could have delivered him to within 400 meters of my house. He, like many (most?) doesn't much care for city buses.

If BRT could use coach-style buses and avoid train track crossing stops, bridges, intersections, bicycles and pedestrian crossing then perhaps it could work.

In the aughts when I used to bus frequently between HFX and Bridgewater, the trip took two fucking hours! With the obligatory stops in Hubbards, Chester, Mahone Bay, and Lunenburg. The line had trouble staying afloat, and eventually folded. I think something more direct would probably gain a lot more traction. Just looking at the current schedule, it runs MWF, and takes 1:50 from Bridgewater to Halifax. People won't give up their cars for that.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by DB_in_Cbus

In the aughts when I used to bus frequently between HFX and Bridgewater, the trip took two fucking hours! With the obligatory stops in Hubbards, Chester, Mahone Bay, and Lunenburg. The line had trouble staying afloat, and eventually folded. I think something more direct would probably gain a lot more traction. Just looking at the current schedule, it runs MWF, and takes 1:50 from Bridgewater to Halifax. People won't give up their cars for that.

Thanks for sharing. You're right that what passes for public transportation in Nova Scotia in 2024 is pathetic, at time when we claim to be serious about greening transportation. I too was familiar with that south shore route, though at an even earlier time. I commuted weekly between Halifax and Bridgewater for much of a two-year period in the late 70s. At the time, MacKenzie Bus Line serviced this route with, I believe, three daily departures, including one that extended to Yarmouth. (In the mid 60s, it was four departures; by the mid 90s, it was down to two, although one was an express on highway 103 that made the trip to Bridgewater in 85 minutes.)

The two photos are from the public album of David Slater. The first is of MacKenzie bus 29 (MCI Winnipeg, 1973) loading Yarmouth-bound passengers at the quaint depot on York Street in Bridgewater in September of 1992. The depot has since been converted into residential.



The second photo is of buses at the company's Bridgewater garage. a former aircraft hanger, relocated from CFB Greenwood post WWII. The site, at the corner of York Street and Victoria Road, is now vacant.


Two images credit: Ipernity

MacKenzie exited the bus business in 1998. NL-based DRL Coach Lines took over the route until 2005. Maritime Bus now runs four days a week, but not past Bridgewater.

It's worth recalling that fifty years ago someone travelling between Halifax and Yarmouth could choose round trips daily between at least three buses (MacKenzie via Bridgewater; Acadian via Kentville), two trains (DAR/VIA) and one jet flight (Air Canada/Jazz).

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Thanks for sharing. You're right that what passes for public transportation in Nova Scotia in 2024 is pathetic, at time when we claim to be serious about greening transportation. I too was familiar with that south shore route, though at an even earlier time. I commuted weekly between Halifax and Bridgewater for much of a two-year period in the late 70s. At the time, MacKenzie Bus Line serviced this route with, I believe, three daily departures, including one that extended to Yarmouth. (In the mid 60s, it was four departures; by the mid 90s, it was down to two, although one was an express on highway 103 that made the trip to Bridgewater in 85 minutes.)

The two photos are from the public album of David Slater. The first is of MacKenzie bus 29 (MCI Winnipeg, 1973) loading Yarmouth-bound passengers at the quaint depot on York Street in Bridgewater in September of 1992. The depot has since been converted into residential.



The second photo is of buses at the company's Bridgewater garage. a former aircraft hanger, relocated from CFB Greenwood post WWII. The site, at the corner of York Street and Victoria Road, is now vacant.


Two images credit: Ipernity

MacKenzie exited the bus business in 1998. NL-based DRL Coach Lines took over the route until 2005. Maritime Bus now runs four days a week, but not past Bridgewater.

It's worth recalling that fifty years ago someone travelling between Halifax and Yarmouth could choose round trips daily between at least three buses (MacKenzie via Bridgewater; Acadian via Kentville), two trains (DAR/VIA) and one jet flight (Air Canada/Jazz).

I have vague childhood memories of "Air Nova" which I believe had flights from Yarmouth to Halifax and also Maine.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by kzt79

I have vague childhood memories of "Air Nova" which I believe had flights from Yarmouth to Halifax and also Maine.

Air Canada itself operated DC-9s on the Halifax-Boston route, with a stop in Yarmouth both ways, for many years before its regional partner Air Nova existed. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Air Nova ever operated to Maine.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Air Canada itself operated DC-9s on the Halifax-Boston route, with a stop in Yarmouth both ways, for many years before its regional partner Air Nova existed. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Air Nova ever operated to Maine.

I don't know. I do recall an Air Nova or Air Atlantic Dash-8 flight to Boston. I think the fillings in my teeth are still loose as a result of the buzzing. Hated that aircraft, especially for a long flight like that.

Other flights to/from Boston and YHZ were in DC-9s and more recently in other small regional jets. I didn't mind the DC-9.

[terrynorthend]

Starlink air service ran a route between Portland and Yarmouth, and as recently as 2010 Twin Cities flew a daily route. Don't know if Air Nova ever did.

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Air Canada itself operated DC-9s on the Halifax-Boston route, with a stop in Yarmouth both ways, for many years before its regional partner Air Nova existed. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Air Nova ever operated to Maine.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I don't know. I do recall an Air Nova or Air Atlantic Dash-8 flight to Boston. I think the fillings in my teeth are still loose as a result of the buzzing. Hated that aircraft, especially for a long flight like that..

Interesting. I've flown on the Smash-8/Q400 lots of times, including Halifax-Boston and Halifax-Toronto (Billy Bishop), as well as shorter routes, and have never found it uncomfortable or had any bad experiences. Except for the fact that it's slower than a jet, I quite like the airplane.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Interesting. I've flown on the Smash-8/Q400 lots of times, including Halifax-Boston and Halifax-Toronto (Billy Bishop), as well as shorter routes, and have never found it uncomfortable or had any bad experiences. Except for the fact that it's slower than a jet, I quite like the airplane.

I find rows 5-7 can be an adventure, being close to the blade tips.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Interesting. I've flown on the Smash-8/Q400 lots of times, including Halifax-Boston and Halifax-Toronto (Billy Bishop), as well as shorter routes, and have never found it uncomfortable or had any bad experiences. Except for the fact that it's slower than a jet, I quite like the airplane.

I think I am allergic to propeller-driven passenger planes. I recall flying to Charlottetown and back on one with the same reaction, and also to other destinations like Sydney, Moncton and Fredericton several times. They make me feel like I am going back to the 1950s. I can understand their value for short hops, but flying to Boston was way too far for that equipment.

[dtown]

I have flown on the Q400 a few times and the only bad experience I ever had was flying from Ottawa to Halifax about 10 - 12 years ago. We were about 30 minutes or so into the flight and I can recall something not feeling 'right' like we were dragging along going slow for some reason. I looked out the window and to my surprise saw the propeller of the engine directly next to me was not moving what so ever. Shortly after that the captain confirmed the situation and we had to make an emergency landing in Montreal. That was a frightening ordeal, but to Porters credit the pilots handled it well, and fortunately they didn't make us get back on that plane that day.

It worked out in the end because I got put up in a decent hotel and ended up catching a Canadiens playoff game that night. But now whenever I hear or think of those planes this is the first thing that comes to mind, and while I wouldn't say I will never fly on it again, it will never be my first choice.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by dtown

I can recall something not feeling 'right' like we were dragging along going slow for some reason. I looked out the window and to my surprise saw the propeller of the engine directly next to me was not moving what so ever.

Fortunately they're designed and built to be safely flown on one engine. And that's a very rare event; the PW100 series engines have an excellent record.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Air Canada itself operated DC-9s on the Halifax-Boston route, with a stop in Yarmouth both ways, for many years before its regional partner Air Nova existed. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Air Nova ever operated to Maine.

Maybe it was "Air Canada" or even some other operator. Although fascinated by aviation, I was a very young child at the time!

[Musquodoboit County]

HRM is abnormally large (geographically) and also we seem to be taking some population from outside HRM (east Hants/elmsdale) to enhance our population numbers. Could we draw up an official "city of Halifax" boundary and give the population for that. I bet it would only be 400,000.

[fatscat]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

HRM is abnormally large (geographically) and also we seem to be taking some population from outside HRM (east Hants/elmsdale) to enhance our population numbers. Could we draw up an official "city of Halifax" boundary and give the population for that. I bet it would only be 400,000.

In my mind, the regional centre is the "city of Halifax" boundary, to the chagrin of those in Dartmouth

[q12]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

HRM is abnormally large (geographically) and also we seem to be taking some population from outside HRM (east Hants/elmsdale) to enhance our population numbers. Could we draw up an official "city of Halifax" boundary and give the population for that. I bet it would only be 400,000.

100,000 people don't live in Elmsdale. Halifax, Dartmouth, Bedford, Lower Sackville make up most of the Halifax Census Metropolitan area.

This is not the latest data but still shows a good visual of where most people live:


https://pudding.cool/2018/10/city_3d/

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

HRM is abnormally large (geographically) and also we seem to be taking some population from outside HRM (east Hants/elmsdale) to enhance our population numbers. Could we draw up an official "city of Halifax" boundary and give the population for that. I bet it would only be 400,000.

I tend to think that we obsess on these numbers a little too much, as if it's some kind of sport. To me, it's all somewhat meaningless compared to what it actually feels like to live here, and what services are working well and which are not.

The only time I place any value on the "numbers" is when we are talking about our housing situation, which IMHO is the most important issue that Halifax has in front of it at the moment. Not how many people live in the rural areas comprised by the HRM boundaries, or whether we've reached some magical factor of 100,000 that finally proves that we are a real city or whatever.

[q12]

^I agree. Planning for Housing, Transit, Hospitals, Schools etc. all need the latest population numbers. They are incredibly important to driving home the point to government the need for new infrastructure in Halifax. As we know many local politicians (and maybe future politicians) have read and participated in this forum.

The government needs to be building infrastructure for a Halifax Metro of 550,000 in 2024 with additional capacity by around 2030 for a Halifax Metro area possibly in the 650,000 range. (and as much as 700,000 if growth rates stay very high).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

HRM is abnormally large (geographically) and also we seem to be taking some population from outside HRM (east Hants/elmsdale) to enhance our population numbers. Could we draw up an official "city of Halifax" boundary and give the population for that. I bet it would only be 400,000.

Statistics Canada applies the same methodology for constructing metropolitan areas across the country and they added those new areas to the metro in 2021 because of commuting patterns. They'll release the 2023 metropolitan population estimates in May and Halifax will likely be at 530,000 or so.

[DB_in_Cbus]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Thanks for sharing. You're right that what passes for public transportation in Nova Scotia in 2024 is pathetic, at time when we claim to be serious about greening transportation. I too was familiar with that south shore route, though at an even earlier time. I commuted weekly between Halifax and Bridgewater for much of a two-year period in the late 70s. At the time, MacKenzie Bus Line serviced this route with, I believe, three daily departures, including one that extended to Yarmouth. (In the mid 60s, it was four departures; by the mid 90s, it was down to two, although one was an express on highway 103 that made the trip to Bridgewater in 85 minutes.)

The two photos are from the public album of David Slater. The first is of MacKenzie bus 29 (MCI Winnipeg, 1973) loading Yarmouth-bound passengers at the quaint depot on York Street in Bridgewater in September of 1992. The depot has since been converted into residential.

It's worth recalling that fifty years ago someone travelling between Halifax and Yarmouth could choose round trips daily between at least three buses (MacKenzie via Bridgewater; Acadian via Kentville), two trains (DAR/VIA) and one jet flight (Air Canada/Jazz).

I remember that building! I was too young to travel it before it closed, but my cousin had a paper route around there and I remember seeing the bus in the morning.

In the aughts, the bus would leave Bridgewater at 10am, and get to Halifax around noon. The reverse trip when from 6-8pm.

It was better than *nothing* (I didn't have a car), but not convenient at all. Not to mention that the bus left from the one of the Irvings by the 103, making it even more difficult to get to.

I know there's been discussion of extending local transit from just Bridgewater, into Lunenburg and Mahone Bay. I'd love to see a subsidized line to Halifax too.

I've been keeping an eye on the number of proposed/planned new housing units for Bridgewater, and it's absolutely insane. There's been something like 5,000 units proposed since 2020 (both for the town and immediate surrounding villages). It's time to think bigger than a bus to Halifax that only runs three days a week.

[Musquodoboit County]

A daily bus would be a start (phase 1)
Phase 2 would be a daily express coach that only stops at 103 exits with smaller community busses serving the towns and villages of the south shore. This would give the fastest trip into Halifax daily.
Phase 3 would be adding a second and third trip daily.
Phase 4 would be than a commuter rail line however this would be extremely expensive build because the the towns are all coastal and that coast is extremely irregular and not in any straight line at all. So might be buses and coach buses for the next 50+years (not in my lifetime)