Metro Vancouver Transportation & Transit Plebiscite

[BCPhil]

It's actually funny to hear how many people on Skytrain bash Skytrain. Like they have never been anywhere else, and don't actually comprehend how good they have it on Skytrain.

No one knows that the average speed end to end is better than most other transit lines in the world, or its frequency is higher and more reliable than almost everywhere, we've never had an in service train collision or derailing, or that it actually carries more people in a day than than all but 9 other rapid transit systems in North America (7 excluding Mexico, and we have better boardings per mile than some of the ones ahead of us). We are not the 10th biggest metro population, we are 35th in North America.

Skytrain is an unparalleled success that most people in this province don't understand. I don't know what it is about our culture that makes it easier for us all to pick on the 1 or 2 negatives (like a single evening of non-operation) instead of appreciate all the positives.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

People voting on this had better be educated that Translink takes care of the Major Road Network. Translink should be getting every media source to spread that.
Many drivers are ignorant about that, and say this referendum doesn't affect them cause they don't use Transit.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/docu...ork%20map.ashx

Just about every commuting driver uses one of those roads, or one of their bridges:
Knight Street Bridge
Pattullo Bridge
Golden Ears Bridge
Westham Island Bridge

Also would be a good idea for the "YES" side to demonstrate where that $36 million extra a year would go towards road projects, ie, give specifics on corridors that would be done X years sooner with the "YES" vote passing. Show to drivers its not all about transit only.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

It's actually funny to hear how many people on Skytrain bash Skytrain. Like they have never been anywhere else, and don't actually comprehend how good they have it on Skytrain.

No one knows that the average speed end to end is better than most other transit lines in the world, or its frequency is higher and more reliable than almost everywhere, we've never had an in service train collision or derailing, or that it actually carries more people in a day than than all but 9 other rapid transit systems in North America (7 excluding Mexico, and we have better boardings per mile than some of the ones ahead of us). We are not the 10th biggest metro population, we are 35th in North America.

Skytrain is an unparalleled success that most people in this province don't understand. I don't know what it is about our culture that makes it easier for us all to pick on the 1 or 2 negatives (like a single evening of non-operation) instead of appreciate all the positives.

It's the fact that "nobody builds with SkyTrain anymore" (ignoring the fact that the argument is one of grade-separation, not technology.) People assume everybody else is doing it right, whereas the truth is we just invest more heavily for a higher quality service.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

It angers/scares me that so many people just say "VOTE NO, CUT THE EXECUTIVE'S SALARIES, AND EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE". If that happened, most of the executives would probably just find new jobs, and since their positions would pay less, any applicants to fill their roles would typically be less experienced and educated. Also, it's like they fail to realize that public transportation isn't really a profitable business. With my (probably wrong) math, cutting salaries would only save between $2-3 million annually; to put that into perspective, it costs translink $1.6 million annually to operate the 364, a 30 minute frequency bus route.

So yeah, lets turn down the referendum, cut the executive's salaries, forget all the other projects, and we get approximately 3 new low-frequency bus routes!!

There is an advantage to higher paid public employees: they are less susceptible to bribes. People with well paying jobs are less likely to risk their employment (it's not impossible though). I think we've been lucky to escape the kind of corruption they have back east because the combination of location (nicest place on earth) and good pay has attracted very talented people and honest people. The perks some of them get, and the size (not pay) of middle management could be reduced. But on the whole we have been very lucky that knowledgeable people have been in places of power in this province. We have had some problems with cronyism, but nothing compared to Ontario and Quebec.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WBC

4) Do b-lines only if you can objectively make them rapid. Putting a "b-line" bus on Willington is laughable. Who needs a B line between Richmond and Metrotown? (there is existing sky train to use). B Line between Langley and Maple Ridge??? Seriously there are people living there without a car that are going to take a bus? That is where you built a new bridge - encourage car use there to pay the freaking bridge off (which is losing you tons of money right now).

A frequent express bus between Richmond and Central Burnaby would be super useful, actually. The existing 410 is a well used route that provides a direct route from downtown Richmond to 22nd Street SkyTrain Station. It is so much more convenient than taking a crosstown bus to connect between the Canada Line and the Expo/Millennium Line somewhere in Vancouver. The only trouble with it is that it is so time consuming to use and stops every second block it seems in the Queensborough area. In the absence of there ever likely being a SkyTrain connection between Richmond and Burnaby, which would form a triangle of rapid transit that allows suburb-to-suburb connectivity, a B-Line connection would be a significant improvement.

[GlassCity]

I have a question about the tax: do retailers have to pay it when they purchase goods from distributors? Say if London Drugs buys a Blu Ray player from their distributor, do they have to pay PST? Or is it just the consumer at the final point of sale?

[faston]

Originally Posted by WBC

there is nothing in the plan that discourages driving. No congestion charges, road pricing, etc.

So you expect the people that you want to social-engineer out of existence to go to the voting booth and vote for their own demise? Good luck with that.

[s211]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

The general driving public is so fucking ignorant.

And with generalizations like that, good luck ever getting any of them to respect your viewpoint, let alone consider it.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by s211

And with generalizations like that, good luck ever getting any of them to respect your viewpoint, let alone consider it.

Do I have to apologize twice? I'm sorry I generalized, but you have to admit the average driver is largely apathetic if not downright hostile to the idea of transit. That's all I was trying to say, just came out much worse in the heat of the moment.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by s211

And with generalizations like that, good luck ever getting any of them to respect your viewpoint, let alone consider it.

Exactly. Many of the anti-car / driving comments on this thread (and other forms of social media) are just as arrogant and one sided as the goofy anti-transit comments.

Put me down as one of those "fucking arrogant" general public drivers, who supports a better highway system in Metro-Vancouver.

BUT at the same time I am also a transit user that supports voting yes for this program and transit expansion, even though I feel the Surrey portion should be skytrain to Langley and BRT for the other two routes.

Also LOL at the "punish drivers and dont rebuild the Patullo" mindset. Such an approach will be great for the economy!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Exactly. Many of the anti-car / driving comments on this thread (and other forms of social media) are just as arrogant and one sided as the goofy anti-transit comments.

Put me down as one of those "fucking arrogant" general public drivers, who supports a better highway system in Metro-Vancouver.

BUT at the same time I am also a transit user that supports voting yes for this program and transit expansion, even though I feel the Surrey portion should be skytrain to Langley and BRT for the other two routes.

Also LOL at the "punish drivers and dont rebuild the Patullo" mindset. Such an approach will be great for the economy!

I'm not anti-car, I drive myself several times a week usually. I'm more anti-anti-transit if that makes any sense. I also support a better highway system, and I was completely against road pricing as a funding mechanism. I'm just tired of some vocal driver's hate towards transit. I don't know what else I can say.

[Millennium2002]

My problem with the RTST (regional transport sales tax) is that it's only going to increase the price discrepancies of goods even more between us and the valley / the states... which will surely drive people and revenues away from local retailers...

Heck, if people are so keen on kicking TransLink so much for what it is, I say bring on the across-the-board cuts... eventually we'll be driven back to our senses and will be forced to do something more reasonable about it.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

My problem with the RTST (regional transport sales tax) is that it's only going to increase the price discrepancies of goods even more between us and the valley / the states... which will surely drive people and revenues away from local retailers...

Heck, if people are so keen on kicking TransLink so much for what it is, I say bring on the across-the-board cuts... eventually we'll be driven back to our senses and will be forced to do something more reasonable about it.

Bingo. I would have looked at increasing the Hydro Transit Levy.

Doesn't matter now. We are boned. I may just invest in a jet pack.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by faston

So you expect the people that you want to social-engineer out of existence to go to the voting booth and vote for their own demise? Good luck with that.

Living in a large city makes your social-engineered to an inch of your life anyway. The question is whether you will be sitting in your car driving 7 km/h or whether we want to improve everybody's life and curb car use a bit (not kick people out of cars completely).

[WarrenC12]

0.5% people. $170/yr for the average family. That's peanuts.

[cornholio]

Good job, I will probably vote yes for this option. One of the few progressive options.

My only pet peeve is that more of the money raised should go towards improving our road and highway infrastructure.

[memememe76]

Who hates Skytrain? Pretty much everyone in the Lower Mainland wants Skytrain (except a few Point Grey residents).

Lots of people hate Translink, though.

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I have a question about the tax: do retailers have to pay it when they purchase goods from distributors? Say if London Drugs buys a Blu Ray player from their distributor, do they have to pay PST? Or is it just the consumer at the final point of sale?

They have to pay it, but they get to credit it back on their taxes. So zero net cost.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by memememe76

Who hates Skytrain? Pretty much everyone in the Lower Mainland wants Skytrain (except a few Point Grey residents).

Lots of people on the north shore are anti-public transit. Until their maid can't get to work, anyway.

If you can convince them that these improvements will make less traffic for them it might have a chance, but it seems like Translink is writing off the north shore vote.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Lots of people on the north shore are anti-public transit. Until their maid can't get to work, anyway.

If you can convince them that these improvements will make less traffic for them it might have a chance, but it seems like Translink is writing off the north shore vote.

Translink isn't writing off the north shore vote. The mayors and council there are. No one in politics there seem to be progressive enough to realize that they need mass transit. The politicians don't have the mandate of the people therefore when the mayors got together to list the next 10 years of priorities the north shore got squat. Don't blame translink blame the representatives from the area.