Phoenix Area Low- and Mid-Rise Development Thread

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

I agree. At least these apartments are a step above the 2-3 story stucco boxes that were built 10 years ago.

The more residences will bring more retail, restaurants, etc. And as density increases and empty lots are filled up, then we get the cool high rises down the road.

Agree. We can't go from 0-100. It takes time. While we all see more potential in these projects, the facts are that it takes time. As density increases and less land becomes available, the prices of the land will rise, requiring that building become even taller to justify the ROI on the land.

[mdpx]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Compare the projects done by the locals to those done by National developers and you will see why DT is still so incoherent. MetroWest (Union), Wetta (?; Portland), Eric Brown (Artisan Village and Homes)... these projects all raise DT through quality, mix of the right uses, etc. Meanwhile, Alliance, Baron, and Wood Partners have knocked over the history of a city that means nothing to them and the 4-story overparked boxes don't make up for the loss of things like Canvas, the Bodega 420 house, GreenHAUS, etc. When these giants demo, the city ends up with a net loss and miles of leasing centers.

Midtown seems to have lost all momentum and while LRT means that density in the area is a good thing since it connects to DT, lowrises and infill will never amount to enough to attract urban retail and so it will continue to be a car-based neighborhood. I would much rather see the infill in DT where historic districts don't limit development to a linear path.

For all of the talk of renovations and conversions happening 2-3 years ago, Midtown looks awfully similar. As you said, interesting structures have been knocked over and we wait for generic boxes to be built in there place, even on intersections like McDowell/Central that should have been cake to design right.

This article kind of craps on your assessment of Midtown.

How Midtown Phoenix turned into a submarket hotspot

http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/...idtown-phoenix

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by mdpx

This article kind of craps on your assessment of Midtown.

How Midtown Phoenix turned into a submarket hotspot

http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/...idtown-phoenix

I agree 100%. I live in Midtown and just looking out the window, I see cranes everywhere. Sure, not high-rise cranes, but density and new development everywhere.

I honestly think a small outdoor mall with residential and office would KILL at Park Central. Several new restaurants have popped up there in the past several months. Can't image how great it would be a redevelopment that had a street presence.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by mdpx

This article kind of craps on your assessment of Midtown.

How Midtown Phoenix turned into a submarket hotspot

http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/...idtown-phoenix

Lol.

Too bad the City didn't cluster the PBC in a sprawled campus and then expand to North Phoenix... mixed use Biomed buildings in collaboration with Banner could've been a big deal for Park Central. Something similar to RED's redev of Town and Country would be great... infill with more urban designs along the edges and a good mix of anchors (Nordstrom Rack, WF, LAF, F21, etc). Maybe that could be possible with the addition of residential on top a la Kierland? It'd be nice to at least see Earll turned into a wide, shaded boulevard with a linear park leading directly into the main mall and lined by stores like RED did ^.

[muertecaza]

Another Wood Partners 4-story apartment box in planning stages for north 7th st., north of Bethany Home.

https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-27-17n.pdf

This one interests me because it would combine 12 single family home parcels, demolish the homes, and demo the cul-de-sac that (some of) the homes are on. If Phoenix's core is going to really densify, I imagine there would have to be more of this type of blunt force redevelopment, and this could be a good test case.

[mdpx]

Wow! It's really so different that anything I've seen.

[biggus diggus]

So unique, can't wait for it to happen.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I honestly think a small outdoor mall with residential and office would KILL at Park Central. Several new restaurants have popped up there in the past several months. Can't image how great it would be a redevelopment that had a street presence.

I hope it's better now than when I worked there from 2007 to 2009 (I haven't been through that area in a long time).

Aside from a Starbucks, Kobalt, Jamba Juice and The Good Egg, there wasn't much activity there aside from us office drones in what used to be (I think!?) the JC Penney building.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I hope it's better now than when I worked there from 2007 to 2009 (I haven't been through that area in a long time).

Aside from a Starbucks, Kobalt, Jamba Juice and The Good Egg, there wasn't much activity there aside from us office drones in what used to be (I think!?) the JC Penney building.

It's still a place that lives off the lunch crowd and it still has the big deli (Park Central Deli). However, the old Qdoba is now a Pita Bistro, and a Fired Pie and Jimmy Johns were added... because you can't have too many sandwich places apparently.

[Buckeye Native 001]

At least there's a Chipotle that's closer (7th Ave/McDowell?) than having to drive all the way over to 20th and Camelback (I hate Qdoba, good riddance)

[ASU Diablo]

Got this flyer in the mail. New affordable housing project going up at NEC of 2nd Ave and Fillmore (lot that's next to the shitty Circle K). The existing building will be knocked down. 6 stories & 63 units. Can't complain!

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Got this flyer in the mail. New affordable housing project going up at NEC of 2nd Ave and Fillmore (lot that's next to the shitty Circle K). The existing building will be knocked down. 6 stories & 63 units. Can't complain!

Wasn't the last NAC housing development around the corner on 2nd Ave kind of a disappointment from an urban standpoint? I hope this one is much better. Hard to tell with the flyer.

[Jjs5056]

Yep, this looks like another shitty NAC project. As always, we get plenty of "active frontage" speak, when what they mean is a private gym and a leasing center. A large amount of retail is not needed in this location, but a commercial space along Fillmore, and live/work type retail on 2nd Ave would be appropriate. I also wish PHX would stop segregating its affordable housing.. this model is outdated and essentially creates what some might perceive as slums vs. integrated with market rate and being diverse.

[Obadno]

Phoenix still ranks as top apartment market

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...nt-market.html

Good news, hopefully this boom continues and the city keeps getting denser!

[biggus diggus]

I had an interesting conversation with one of the more important cogs with Baron the other day who told me, as if already surmised, that rents were starting to come down across the market due to the now increased competition downtown. It's time for someone to build a less expensive product and enter that market which is not already saturated. That's how you'll do well if you want to build at this point. The $1,600+ one bedroom stuff is too easy to find.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I had an interesting conversation with one of the more important cogs with Baron the other day who told me, as if already surmised, that rents were starting to come down across the market due to the now increased competition downtown. It's time for someone to build a less expensive product and enter that market which is not already saturated. That's how you'll do well if you want to build at this point. The $1,600+ one bedroom stuff is too easy to find.

The 1600$ for a bedroom nonsense is why im probably going to buy in the fall instead of renting for another year or two.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Yep, this looks like another shitty NAC project.

Yeah, NAC is so terrible, what with them helping the very poor and disabled.

Seriously? Check your privilege.

As always, we get plenty of "active frontage" speak, when what they mean is a private gym and a leasing center. A large amount of retail is not needed in this location, but a commercial space along Fillmore...

NAC doesn't own the lot fronting Fillmore. That lot has been on and off for sale for at least a decade and nobody's bought it.

and live/work type retail on 2nd Ave would be appropriate.

Live/work barely works on East Roosevelt St in those units, it's not gonna work here. Construction costs should go to their mission rather than having an empty or impossible to fill storefront.

I also wish PHX would stop segregating its affordable housing.. this model is outdated and essentially creates what some might perceive as slums vs. integrated with market rate and being diverse.

This comment would have made some sense several years ago when the only type of housing going up was affordable housing. That's not the case today.

[Ballister]

Originally Posted by combusean

Yeah, NAC is so terrible, what with them helping the very poor and disabled.

Seriously? Check your privilege.

Bam!

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by combusean

Yeah, NAC is so terrible, what with them helping the very poor and disabled.

Seriously? Check your privilege.



NAC doesn't own the lot fronting Fillmore. That lot has been on and off for sale for at least a decade and nobody's bought it.



Live/work barely works on East Roosevelt St in those units, it's not gonna work here. Construction costs should go to their mission rather than having an empty or impossible to fill storefront.



This comment would have made some sense several years ago when the only type of housing going up was affordable housing. That's not the case today.

Do you ask anyone who dares to complain about the Westward Ho's use as senior apts to check their privilege?

As far as I knew, this was much more so a place to discuss urban design than to discuss social program and policy. Just because Parsons Center for HIV/AIDS does great work doesn't mean their building destroys downtown's connection to Hance Park. And, just because NAC provides services to Native Americans doesn't mean that the design of their projects are awful. Live/work has been successful all over downtown - Artisan Village is nearly always filled, and Alta Phoenix has had 4/5 spaces leased since being built. Live/work units would help integrate the projects into the neighborhood and provide upward mobility for its residents to own a home and small business. I know, that's a horrible thing to say... design that benefits the neighborhood and the underserved?

Your last comment misses the point entirely. Nearly every modern city dedicates space within their market rate projects for affordable units. It doesn't matter what goes up around the affordable housing downtown; keeping a group of lower socioeconomic class in a secluded development is still seclusion. It still allows whatever challenges the group faced previously to fester, for adjacent property values to drop, and for pedestrians to avoid uninviting monoliths of people who are not like them.

Even if that last point held true, this 2nd project between McKinley and Fillmore will give NAC at least 50% of the real estate on that block. Yea, that's integrated.

How bored are you to rant under the assumption that anyone would come to this place and have negative things to say about the residents of any project? When has that ever been the case? Everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt their critique is toward the architect/developer? Give me a break.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Do you ask anyone who dares to complain about the Westward Ho's use as senior apts to check their privilege?

As far as I knew, this was much more so a place to discuss urban design than to discuss social program and policy. Just because Parsons Center for HIV/AIDS does great work doesn't mean their building destroys downtown's connection to Hance Park. And, just because NAC provides services to Native Americans doesn't mean that the design of their projects are awful. Live/work has been successful all over downtown - Artisan Village is nearly always filled, and Alta Phoenix has had 4/5 spaces leased since being built. Live/work units would help integrate the projects into the neighborhood and provide upward mobility for its residents to own a home and small business. I know, that's a horrible thing to say... design that benefits the neighborhood and the underserved?

Your last comment misses the point entirely. Nearly every modern city dedicates space within their market rate projects for affordable units. It doesn't matter what goes up around the affordable housing downtown; keeping a group of lower socioeconomic class in a secluded development is still seclusion. It still allows whatever challenges the group faced previously to fester, for adjacent property values to drop, and for pedestrians to avoid uninviting monoliths of people who are not like them.

Even if that last point held true, this 2nd project between McKinley and Fillmore will give NAC at least 50% of the real estate on that block. Yea, that's integrated.

How bored are you to rant under the assumption that anyone would come to this place and have negative things to say about the residents of any project? When has that ever been the case? Everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt their critique is toward the architect/developer? Give me a break.

BAM