PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Nice little infographic article on capping highways: https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240821.html

The top image of a pre-i95 waterfront is gut-wrenching.

Here's a question for everybody, based on this. What would the ideal, perfect Philly waterfront look like? I've been thinking about this, especially because I was in Boston last week. Now, Boston's waterfront is practically perfect and no one can beat it, but that doesn't change that Philly's could be greatly improved.

I would like the historic buildings like the Market Street Ferries, but at the same time I would want it to be as expansive as the existing/future waterfront. Ideally, no I-95. And hey, while we're dreaming, how about the SS United States as the centerpiece?

[Skintreesnail]

Boston does have a great waterfront, particularly the north end. Philadelphia could have had elements of that if 95 didn't plow through, but I'm sure it was in pretty bad shape. Would probably have given us some pretty interesting buildings though.
https://digital.librarycompany.org/i...gitool%3A62154

Baltimore has a pretty nice waterfront, especially fells point. Seattle is going to have a nice one too now that the highway is gone. Chicago is impressive but not intimate enough for my liking.

[Justin7]

Eliminate the the inland side of Delaware Avenue through CC. In the narrow areas (that aren't capped) build tall and dense enough to completely block out 95.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Eliminate the the inland side of Delaware Avenue through CC. In the narrow areas (that aren't capped) build tall and dense enough to completely block out 95.

Love it. Del Ave is just as or more damaging to the waterfront connection as 95.

There is no reason to have a 6 lane highway next to 95 that allows dip$hits to drive 90 miles an hour through a city when people are walking/running/biking and enjoying the waterfront.

Del Ave IS the problem.

[gjrip]

I think there's legitimate value in them having their own venue

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by gjrip

I think there's legitimate value in them having their own venue

Agreed. They’ve been protective over others using though. We went to a huge marching band competition there back in 2018; fans loved the location and it was well attended. But stadium ownership banned further marching band comps bc the feet messed up the turf. I call BS on that. Events like that coupled with an economic business plan around the stadium, would be great for Chester.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Mr Saturn64

Here's a question for everybody, based on this. What would the ideal, perfect Philly waterfront look like? I've been thinking about this, especially because I was in Boston last week. Now, Boston's waterfront is practically perfect and no one can beat it, but that doesn't change that Philly's could be greatly improved.

I would like the historic buildings like the Market Street Ferries, but at the same time I would want it to be as expansive as the existing/future waterfront. Ideally, no I-95. And hey, while we're dreaming, how about the SS United States as the centerpiece?

Sadly, I think a Boston style waterfront is out of reach. Phillys in the future would probably be like a hybrid of NYCs Hudson and DC Wharf. Cavanaughs and Morgans Pier will eventually be replaced with development. I could see a Little Island type park popping up at some point, along with a return of a marina somewhere. I wish we’d get a beach added near Northbank….just sand, not necessarily water access. I think it’d be very popular.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

They should put all of their efforts into getting in Philly or even Camden with transit access. They should try and mitigate the costs by splitting a stadium with Temple football, Penn soccer or Rutgers Camden in Camden. Callowhill, sports complex, Walmart piers in south Philly, Broad and Girard, Fishtown waterfront by the Battery would all be great locations.

Temple doesn’t need a stadium. Ship has sailed there with conference realignment. As costs rise and amateurism fades away, I think there’s a greater chance of TU football is cut than a stadium getting built. People will come at me for saying that….its the truth though.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Temple doesn’t need a stadium. Ship has sailed there with conference realignment. As costs rise and amateurism fades away, I think there’s a greater chance of TU football is cut than a stadium getting built. People will come at me for saying that….its the truth though.

Temple has wanted out of the Linc for some time. Too expensive, and too big for the meager crowds they get. If they could partner with the Union, or someone else, and build a stadium say in the Northeast, that might be an option, but the partner would have to be the owner/developer, and Temple would be a tenant.
I really doubt they'd cut the football program.
Temple is really hamstrung as far as building an on-campus stadium. Who knows, though, with John Fry coming in as president? He has been known to make things happen.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

Temple has wanted out of the Linc for some time. Too expensive, and too big for the meager crowds they get. If they could partner with the Union, or someone else, and build a stadium say in the Northeast, that might be an option, but the partner would have to be the owner/developer, and Temple would be a tenant.
I really doubt they'd cut the football program.
Temple is really hamstrung as far as building an on-campus stadium. Who knows, though, with John Fry coming in as president? He has been known to make things happen.

Temple has spent untold budget trying to improve football to no success. They are in a struggling conference with extremely high travel costs, the best schools leaving for better conferences, and expected decreases TV rights. Now abolishment of NCAA amateur causes will lead to even lower football recruits and higher costs to Temple for payouts to attract top players.

I hate being doom and gloom bc I loved going to games when they were good at one point. But it’s a terrible ROI for a university operating in a landscape where fewer students planning to go to college bc of high tuition costs with lower value after grad. Temple would be better off cutting football and using that budget for scholarships, at this point.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Temple would be better off cutting football and using that budget for scholarships, at this point.

that might be true, but it doesn't meant they're going to do it. again, I am sure Fry will at least make an effort to do something to resuscitate it and make it worthwhile.

[bigfish]

It would be awesome if the Union moved to Franklin Field.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

that might be true, but it doesn't meant they're going to do it. again, I am sure Fry will at least make an effort to do something to resuscitate it and make it worthwhile.

Why do you think Fry would focus on football? He seems like he’s going headfirst into an innovation district. Not sure an arena fits that model.

For the record, I don’t think they’ll cut football. But I think it’s time to take an unemotional look at that option. It hasn’t succeeded and costs more than value or potential opportunity IMO.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Why do you think Fry would focus on football? He seems like he’s going headfirst into an innovation district. Not sure an arena fits that model.

not saying he'll focus on football, but it is a problem to be solved.

[PHLtoNYC]

One less vacancy, but whyyy can't somehow just instead knockdown this block of Market Street already??

Five Below and Ross set store opening dates in King of Prussia, Center City

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=1#cxrecs_s

Ross Stores plans to open a new outpost at 11th and Market streets in Center City on Oct. 12. Both stores are taking the place of other national retailers, with Ross filling space formerly occupied by Marshalls...

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

One less vacancy, but whyyy can't somehow just instead knockdown this block of Market Street already??

For as banged up as that block may be, it is still architecturally superior, more urban, and a better pedestrian experience than the "new stuff" on the north side of 1000 block of Market.

(I coincidentally walked both sides yesterday afternoon.)

[thoughtcriminal]

Results of 76ers arena study finally released.
Summary:
Pros: the arena should be economically viable, and be a boost for center city. Might even increase transit usage on event days.
Cons: traffic will probably increase on event days, even with increased transit usage. Will likely hurt Chinatown.
So no real news, same things everyone has been saying all along.
The team wants the city to make a decision by end of this year so they can get going on this or explore other options.
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...y-traffic.html

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Why do you think Fry would focus on football? He seems like he’s going headfirst into an innovation district. Not sure an arena fits that model.

For the record, I don’t think they’ll cut football. But I think it’s time to take an unemotional look at that option. It hasn’t succeeded and costs more than value or potential opportunity IMO.

Sure I don't think he cares about football but he is a developer and if he can get a joint stadium with the Union at Broad and Girard and develop bars/restaurants/apartments there? To be clear, I agree about Temple football. The future is not bright, they will be a bottom dweller and the new NCAA is not forgiving to a school like them but their program is from 1894 and I think it's important for it to stay. I think a smaller stadium near campus (Broad and Girard) would be great for them and the students. Temple could also consider dropping down to FCS level like Villanova.

A Franklin Field renovation for soccer would be amazing but Penn will never go for it as they need turf for durability.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

One less vacancy, but whyyy can't somehow just instead knockdown this block of Market Street already??

Five Below and Ross set store opening dates in King of Prussia, Center City

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=1#cxrecs_s

Ross Stores plans to open a new outpost at 11th and Market streets in Center City on Oct. 12. Both stores are taking the place of other national retailers, with Ross filling space formerly occupied by Marshalls...

Our most important retail corridor is is a dollar store haven. That's pathetic.

I wonder how long the storefront at the LIT building will sit vacant?

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Our most important retail corridor is is a dollar store haven. That's pathetic.

I wonder how long the storefront at the LIT building will sit vacant?

If only there was a transformative project that would bring hundreds of thousands of new people to 11th and Market 100+ days a night...