Burnaby Updates

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by madog222

That's Station Square, everything west of Station St.

Nice! Thanks

[Migrant_Coconut]

Silver Drive is indeed excellent. It's also very much one of the aforementioned side streets and not a part of Kingsway, which is the point.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

... Silver Drive is amazing and if a bit bigger and extended will serve thw community well while the mall is still there for a high street. While Kingsway will remain Highway 1A, much like a Georgia St.

Agreed. And that defeats the original premise, that Kingsway will become an even better Great Street (TM) than Broadway - nope, it's just another big throughfare.

[madog222]

1A officially doesn't exist as of 2006 even if Google maps still has Kingsway labeled as such.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Okay, so bus lanes on central Willingdon, then scrap the SB parking lane and NB shoulder on Lougheed - still four lanes each, and now walkability at the intersection is 250% better. Again, if the Millennium Line and Willingdon Line are both open, I'm not seeing the need for most people to reach Metrotown by car (TCH drivers can detour to Boundary if need be).

I suspect the Boundary Loop will continue to exist as long as Vancouver and Burnaby remain two separate cities.

19 was extended to the Metrotown Exchange.

Boundary also shares an exit with Grandview Hwy. It's about as bad as Willingdon.
Drivers could use Kensington if they upgraded that exit to allow easy bidirectional access to Deer Lake Ave, though.

I don't think you're particularly familiar with the Brentwood Exchange.
123 and 25 (and other misc. buses) use the side HOV/right-turn lanes on Lougheed (meaning Lougheed is de-facto already 2 lanes+ left turn lanes here.)
130/222 uses the HOV lanes on Willingdon.
https://infomaps.translink.ca/system...od_station.pdf

You might be able to move 123 or 25 to use stations on Willingdon instead, or move the station for them to Dawson or Skyline Dr (most people get off 123 and 25 on the Dawson St. Station anyways because it's faster.)

Either way, all you're really doing is moving the bus exchange off Lougheed to side streets, which IMO doesn't really accomplish much.

Also, I've seen far worse intersections than Willingdon + Lougheed. If you really need it, revive the south Brentwood Station entrance.

I'm not even sure Broadway is a comparable example, as it was upgraded from being a regular urban arterial into a regional highway (making it easier to convert back into an urban arterial) rather than Lougheed and Kingsway, which were always regional highways.

It's like asking Langley Bypass to be anything other than a car pit.
I'm not sure that's possible. It's probably better to just ignore it and have the community open out into the side streets rather than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Originally Posted by madog222

1A officially doesn't exist as of 2006 even if Google maps still has Kingsway labeled as such.

It's a bit iffy.
The old road signs keep being maintained, and even if they aren't, everyone basically acts as if they're still regional highways.
This is why most mapping services keep the designation.

The only change, really, is that the removal of the 'official' designation allowed municipalities to do with them what they wanted by transferring jurisdiction from the Province to the municipalities/TransLink.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Silver Drive is indeed excellent. It's also very much one of the aforementioned side streets and not a part of Kingsway, which is the point.



Agreed. And that defeats the original premise, that Kingsway will become an even better Great Street (TM) than Broadway - nope, it's just another big throughfare.

Oh that's wild I had no idea the concept is go make Kingsway a Great Street. I was under the assumption its role was to carry on the Highway 1A legacy, hence the 6 or whatever lanes it is.

[GenWhy?]

Also just realizing that the City designed a new street layout with bikelanes, and parking meters even though they are forcing new developments to build sufficient underground visitor parking.

Maybe they'll remove the street parking for bus lanes one day

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

- snip -

I’ve taken a bus from Brentwood before... it’s literally a few bus stops next to each other, which does not an exchange make. And none of those would be moved up or down the street with traffic calming, just one lane inward.

Again: if Broadway (among many other arterials) can handle a much higher volume of buses and traffic with just four lanes, Lougheed should be able to as well – it even already has a SkyTrain, so turning that highway into an arterial shouldn’t be too difficult.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Oh that's wild I had no idea the concept is go make Kingsway a Great Street. I was under the assumption its role was to carry on the Highway 1A legacy, hence the 6 or whatever lanes it is.

Only an SSP suggestion, not any actual plan. See, the original argument was "could we turn Lougheed or Kingsway into a Great Street?" with yes and no arguments, and then Klazu jumped in with "please, Kingsway will be even Greater than Broadway because the road is wider and the towers are taller!" and then it turned into "that's a dumb argument, Kingsway is practically unwalkable and Silver Street/Station Square/Metrotown are luring all the customers away."

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I’ve taken a bus from Brentwood before... it’s literally a few bus stops next to each other, which does not an exchange make. And none of those would be moved up or down the street with traffic calming, just one lane inward.

Again: if Broadway (among many other arterials) can handle a much higher volume of buses and traffic with just four lanes, Lougheed should be able to as well – it even already has a SkyTrain, so turning that highway into an arterial shouldn’t be too difficult.



Only an SSP suggestion, not any actual plan. See, the original argument was "could we turn Lougheed or Kingsway into a Great Street?" with yes and no arguments, and then Klazu jumped in with "please, Kingsway will be even Greater than Broadway because the road is wider and the towers are taller!" and then it turned into "that's a dumb argument, Kingsway is practically unwalkable and Silver Street/Station Square/Metrotown are luring all the customers away."

Broadway will only have the 9 once the SkyTrain goes through (probably).
123 and 25 are some of the busier buses on the network, and will not have their demand sucked out by SkyTrain.
25 already has more demand than 9.
Yes, they need more space than 9 will.
If 15/50 is any comparison, 9 will get ~3mil annual boardings after SkyTrain.

25 has 8.5mil, and 123 is 1.85 mil.

Not really comparable, even if 25 has some of its riders leave due to SkyTrain to UBC.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Broadway will only have the 9 once the SkyTrain goes through (probably).

No, TransLink said the 14, 16 and 17 will return to their previous routes once construction is completed.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Not to mention most of the 25 and 123’s ridership demand is UBC, BCIT, Brentwood or Metrotown; once you can reach them all via SkyTrain, much of the 123 empties out at Canada Way, and the 25 goes back to being just another local trolley route.

I mean really, if Broadway doesn’t need six lanes to run its buses, Lougheed definitely doesn’t.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Thanks.

It would be easier to block off lanes if you had a large number of parallel roads- however, only Vancouver and New Westminster really have functional 'grids' outside the arterials.

This doesn't mean you couldn't try creating alternate routes, (like Still Creek Dr. or Broadway for Lougheed and Wayburn for Metrotown), but they usually require controversial things like building through parks or destroying some homes to be possible.


Surrey's learning this the hard way, and the North Shore will too.

There's also the problem of actually trying to get people to use the alternate routes- Surrey put up signs showing how long different routes take to go down to Surrey Central for this reason.

That still should probably be done (on the short run, it allows for better traffic flow and access, and on the long run, would allow enough excess capacity to narrow the arterial streets and have the cars passing through bypass the town centers instead (see: Lougheed Hwy/Haney Bypass through Maple Ridge, Langley Bypass, 12th Ave, etc.).


Eg. for a Broadway Extension to 1st Ave:


Bypassing Amazing Brentwood (this would destroy the Willingdon Heights Dog Park and single-family homes):



I think the traffic calming of Broadway was only politically viable due to the pandemic. Otherwise, the traffic load would be too great to consider the option seriously.

However, Broadway does have 1 other advantage that Lougheed and Willingdon do not have- which is that 12th Ave is the primary pathway for cars passing through the area, rather than Broadway itself.

Without that, even the unique circumstances that allowed Broadway to be narrowed wouldn't exist.

I think I am not entirely sure what those two maps are about. So are the maps showing two alternative routes you’ve mapped going from east to west (and vice versa)? In which case yeah, I would probably want those through traffic to go even further around if possible. In this specific scenario you’ve mapped there, it actually seems like the best way to travel would be to take Hwy 1 to me

I am making these following assumptions:
- Making urban centres more people-friendly will objectively decrease cars usage. As some trips will be replaced by other mode of transportations.
- The pandemics effect of people working from home is still something to take into consideration.
- In various cities around the world that are moving away from car-centric designs actually do want cars to take alternative routes to reach destination. Similar to how bikes and quite frankly, sometime pedestrians as well, have specific routes which can be a little meandering, same would happen to cars as well. This creates differing preferred routes for both cars and bikes which may actually make both mode of travel more enjoyable.
- Those same cities are aggressively making previously-unthinkable roads more pedestrian-friendly so we have real world examples of it being possible!
- At various times, Lougheed Hwy already function like 2 lanes each anyways due to people avoiding parked cars, designated turn lanes and so on. I have personally not observed nor heard of any traffic apocalypse yet but I certainly could be wrong. I think my suggestion basically simply codify it more permanently.
- I am also not necessarily saying this needs to happen now but in the future when more of those developments are completed. Look at the amount of buildings that will be built in the next 5+ years. I say take that opportunity and re-work the roads to make the centre more walkable. I am quite hearten by some of the cycling/pedestrian considerations they’re putting into some of the new developments. I just hope they can keep up the good work and be bold!

https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/stra...ommunity-plans

All of those points combined make me think there won’t be traffic apocalypse and that fear may not come into fruition. I think people who still needs to drive will be able to use the existing alternative roads (like some of them are now due to constructions). I also think there will be overall less cars usage if we make alternative travels more attractive. I think two lanes each way around Brentwood is the best I can hope for for now, but I know it may sound controversial! Personally, I am rather enjoying all this discussions with different perspectives from a lot of people We are truly a bunch of passionate nerds!

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Also just realizing that the City designed a new street layout with bikelanes, and parking meters even though they are forcing new developments to build sufficient underground visitor parking.

Maybe they'll remove the street parking for bus lanes one day

The fact that there's any street parking on Kingsway through Metrotown is ridiculous. There is no shortage of surface and underground parking in the neighborhood. Plus the parking blocks drivers' view of the sidewalk and bike lane so there will be way more incidents than if there was no street parking.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I think I am not entirely sure what those two maps are about. So are the maps showing two alternative routes you’ve mapped going from east to west (and vice versa)? In which case yeah, I would probably want those through traffic to go even further around if possible. In this specific scenario you’ve mapped there, it actually seems like the best way to travel would be to take Hwy 1 to me

I am making these following assumptions:
- Making urban centres more people-friendly will objectively decrease cars usage. As some trips will be replaced by other mode of transportations.
- The pandemics effect of people working from home is still something to take into consideration.
- In various cities around the world that are moving away from car-centric designs actually do want cars to take alternative routes to reach destination. Similar to how bikes and quite frankly, sometime pedestrians as well, have specific routes which can be a little meandering, same would happen to cars as well. This creates differing preferred routes for both cars and bikes which may actually make both mode of travel more enjoyable.
- Those same cities are aggressively making previously-unthinkable roads more pedestrian-friendly so we have real world examples of it being possible!
- At various times, Lougheed Hwy already function like 2 lanes each anyways due to people avoiding parked cars, designated turn lanes and so on. I have personally not observed nor heard of any traffic apocalypse yet but I certainly could be wrong. I think my suggestion basically simply codify it more permanently.
- I am also not necessarily saying this needs to happen now but in the future when more of those developments are completed. Look at the amount of buildings that will be built in the next 5+ years. I say take that opportunity and re-work the roads to make the centre more walkable. I am quite hearten by some of the cycling/pedestrian considerations they’re putting into some of the new developments. I just hope they can keep up the good work and be bold!

https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/stra...ommunity-plans

All of those points combined make me think there won’t be traffic apocalypse and that fear may not come into fruition. I think people who still needs to drive will be able to use the existing alternative roads (like some of them are now due to constructions). I also think there will be overall less cars usage if we make alternative travels more attractive. I think two lanes each way around Brentwood is the best I can hope for for now, but I know it may sound controversial! Personally, I am rather enjoying all this discussions with different perspectives from a lot of people We are truly a bunch of passionate nerds!

The idea is for surface traffic to bypass Brentwood Centre.

[gaviscon]

6630 Telford Avenue

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Klazu

This got me really excited! All I can say is FINALLY and there is huge potential to build something great here. The SkyTrain guideway lighting was well-implemented, but without something under it, it serves very little purpose.

https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/proj...cement-project

• Video Link

Originally Posted by mcj

If they extend this program between Royal Oak and Edmonds, another beer garden across from Studio Brewing would make a lot of sense (if they operate it of course). Would show they're taking their brewery district plans seriously

I sent a message through the site and finally heard back:

Thank you for your interest in the project and feedback! Currently the project scope is between Kingsway and Royal Oak Avenue and doesn’t expand beyond that. But we will keep your suggestion in mind when we start the site analysis work in summer to explore the said areas. We will also host public events and ask for public feedback via survey in June which will be advertised shortly. Look forward to hear your thoughts then.

[Spr0ckets]

So this was a topic of discussion on this forum not that long ago - the rumour about the City of Burnaby wanting to build a new City Hall in Metrotown.

‘Civic heart’: Burnaby wants to build a new city hall in Metrotown

“The new city hall will be a significant investment in our community and will enhance the civic heart of Burnaby’s true downtown," said (Mayor Mike) Hurley in the press release. “We are committed to building a new facility that reflects the diversity of our community – a place that is safe, inclusive and welcoming to people from all walks of life.”

The existing building at 4949 Canada Way was built in 1955, and the city says it “lacks sustainability and inclusivity provisions.”
......

Council picked the Metrotown area as the preferred location for a new city hall as it was designated as Burnaby’s downtown in the 2017 Metrotown Downtown Plan and it’s a “regional city centre” in Metro Vancouver’s Regional Growth Strategy.


https://www.burnabynow.com/local-new...rotown-6961383

So I imagine the fact that it's now in the press and the Mayor is commenting about it, makes it more official, and less in the realm of rumour.

Especially if they've even set up a project website for it.

At the moment all it says is that they're still holding consultations with the public regarding questions such as where it would be located.

Back when we talked about it, I think the sentiment was that it would make most sense being located in one of the city's "public" lands in the area and in keeping with the rumour that they envisioned a complex that was either adjacent to or straddling the Skytrain line, the most likely candidate seemed like the Public Library lot at Willingdon and Central Boulevard (which would also give them an opportunity to bridge the city hall complex building with a potential Transit hub link between a future Skytrain extension line or Rapidbus from Metrotown to Brentwood (and potentially to North Van), and the Metrotown Skytrain station.

The only other location that could possibly meet this need might be the Bonsor complex and park, but that's a bit of a ways away from the Skytrain line, and being technically a public park and recreation center, it's almost certain they'd get a ton of public pushback to tearing down the complex to replace it with a City Hall building, or taking some of the land to do so. Unless they could sweeten the pot by pledging to build a replacement Rec. Center as part of a new mega Civic-complex with both the City Hall and a new Bonsor park recrational facility.


Anyway, I imagine there's going to be more on this in the ether, in coming weeks and months ahead, now that it's been commented on publicly.

My bet remains on them taking over the library building and land and building a new library to go with their new City Hall building adjacent to the Skytrain station/line and linking both the Millennium line, and a Willingdon based, Metrotown-Brentwood line

[Lexus]

I put my money that it will be near Bosnor. City bought Firefighters club there too.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

My bet remains on them taking over the library building and land and building a new library to go with their new City Hall building adjacent to the Skytrain station/line and linking both the Millennium line, and a Willingdon based, Metrotown-Brentwood line

Originally Posted by Lexus

I put my money that it will be near Bosnor. City bought Firefighters club there too.

Of those two I'd say Bonsor is a more likely bet. Alternately they could move the Maywood School across the street to Bonsor, buy up the couple old buildings at Central & Imperial and have a big complex there with the firefighters and / or rec centre.

Or it could be in one of the rebuilt sections of the mall, depending on how long they want to wait. Or they could put in Central Park over by Patterson Station (the one viewcone in the city).

Of course none of those options would cause a Nimby reaction...

[madog222]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Pretty sure Burnaby doesn't have any vacant industrial land left.

They'd have to get ALR approval to remove some of the agricultural lands in Big Bend, or get rid of the Riverview Golf course.

There are some vacant or underutilized (used car lot) sites just east of Boundary, between Joffre and Greenall specifically, most of the vacant lots there are city owned.
The golf course is ALR, not sure if that's what you meant or not.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by madog222

There are some vacant or underutilized (used car lot) sites just east of Boundary, between Joffre and Greenall specifically, most of the vacant lots there are city owned.
The golf course is ALR, not sure if that's what you meant or not.

I meant that- the golf courses should be removed from ALR (they're not agricultural), but I guess the ALC is worried they'd just become suburbs, then.

Most likely, really, Burnaby just sends the green waste to Richmond or some new facility further out from the city.


The green waste facility made sense to be proposed where it was because it would be right next to the existing incinerator.
Anywhere else, and it's not as clear if the benefits are worth it.