NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[Manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

For real man??... Get some perspective and lighten up.

Yeah, and what's so special about 2,000'? I'd rather have 3 supertalls than a 2,000' personally. 2,000' would destroy the scale of the skyline and make all those 800' suddenly look tiny.

I don't think we should break the 2,000' barrier until we have at least 10 towers of 1,500'+

[mrnyc]

be careful what you wish for.

someone might build a supertall and jack it up to 2k' with a 1wtc type anten ... i mean spire.

i'll take new added gateway tracks and penn south/empire redevelopment at any heights.

[Dylan Dude]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

Yeah, and what's so special about 2,000'? I'd rather have 3 supertalls than a 2,000' personally. 2,000' would destroy the scale of the skyline and make all those 800' suddenly look tiny.

I don't think we should break the 2,000' barrier until we have at least 10 towers of 1,500'+

True. I kinda thought the chicago spire was too tall. It's awesome the grand hyatt will be 1,650 ft. I think it'd be nice to have 1,800 ft in this madison square garden area if possible, but if not its all good.

Also one of the buildings says 1,300 ft, not bad. When will these proposal's be set in stone with renders?

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

Yeah, and what's so special about 2,000'? I'd rather have 3 supertalls than a 2,000' personally. 2,000' would destroy the scale of the skyline and make all those 800' suddenly look tiny.

I don't think we should break the 2,000' barrier until we have at least 10 towers of 1,500'+

I think one 1650+ and a bunch of 900-1200+ buildings would be ideal for me. There's nothing wrong with 800' looking tiny, 800' ain't much in the skyscraper world anymore.

I think it would be nice to have a signature tower, NY is one of the few skylines a 2K footer wouldn't totally overpower IMO.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Dylan Dude

Also one of the buildings says 1,300 ft, not bad. When will these proposal's be set in stone with renders?

Keeping in mind those numbers are conservative estimates, that 1,300 ft tower, when actually designed could reach 1,500 ft or more. We know Vornado controls the northern sites (4-8). The southern sites, the towers built above the new rails, will be sent out to an RFP. Most likely one of the big, experienced developers will get it. Personally, I want to rule out Related and Vornado. They already control a lot in the area. But once a team is selected, their initial proposals will go through the design process.

[Zapatan]

Keeping in mind those numbers are conservative estimates, that 1,300 ft tower, when actually designed could reach 1,500 ft or more.

Which is super exciting, those heights more or less resemble downtown Moscow (counting its current UC tallest).

NY is insanely spoiled.

[faridnyc]

List of tallest building in new York city in 2030
One world trade center will always be a tallest building
There is no building can exceeding the 1wtc tip height .

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by faridnyc

List of tallest building in new York city in 2030
One world trade center will always be a tallest building
There is no building can exceeding the 1wtc tip height .

Amazing ability to predict the future in 9 years, what else is up in 2030?

[Crawford]

This is probably the most likely location for a 2,000 ft. tower. Even more likely than Grand Central area or Billionaire's Row.

[binjakob]

Why isn´t block 807 included in the plan?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by binjakob

Why isn´t block 807 included in the plan?

They don’t need it. The blocks south of 31st street is where the expansion takes place.

[Crawford]

Block 807 is 11 Penn Plaza, which is a really nice office building with Apple as prime tenant. I imagine it would be one of the last blocks in that district to be redeveloped.

[jackster99]

Originally Posted by faridnyc

I am so disappointed , new York city will never ever get a megatall , i was thinking that peen station will be home of first new York city megatall, i am outraged .
Even in 2030 nyc will never see a +2000ft height building

I understand English is most likely your second language, but the content of your posts are troll level annoying. Same thing over and over again about 2000ft+ tall towers and "peen station"

[Manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Block 807 is 11 Penn Plaza, which is a really nice office building with Apple as prime tenant. I imagine it would be one of the last blocks in that district to be redeveloped.

Block 806 is the one that pains me. Those buildings should absolutely not be demolished.

I'm already at peace with Hotel Penn going down (though I still think it should have been renovated), but not 806. I'd rather lose all of 754 than 806.

[mrnyc]

so where do they start?

is this about right?

that basically sites 1-3 will happen together depending on gateway news, but sites 4-8 could be redeveloped individually at any time?

that is, are 4-8 just id'd for upzoning, or do they need to do penn work underneath those sites first as well?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Block 807 is 11 Penn Plaza, which is a really nice office building with Apple as prime tenant. I imagine it would be one of the last blocks in that district to be redeveloped.

There is also new construction at the other end of the block, and relatively new construction midblock. In fact, while some people were calling for more residential development on the sites, there has already been a lot of resi development in the area.

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

Block 806 is the one that pains me. Those buildings should absolutely not be demolished.

I'm already at peace with Hotel Penn going down (though I still think it should have been renovated), but not 806. I'd rather lose all of 754 than 806.

Block 754 is actually a nice residential block, which is rare considering it's proximity to everything else.

Originally Posted by mrnyc

so where do they start?
is this about right?

that basically sites 1-3 will happen together depending on gateway news, but sites 4-8 could be redeveloped individually at any time?

that is, are 4-8 just id'd for upzoning, or do they need to do penn work underneath those sites first as well?

Gateway is considered a separate project from this one. Though the two will work together, this is primarily the commercial redevelopment of the area, which in turn pays for the expanded station and improvements to the existing station.

The expansion of Penn south will be on sites (1-3). That's estimated to be complete within 8 years and operational. The timeframe for the towers on those sites will be up to whichever developer is selected to build them. Vornado controls the northern sites, and has previously stated that 15 Penn would be the next order of business following work on 1 and 2 Penn Plaza. But that could all change once the redevelopment plan is officially in place. I wouldn't mind seeing 5 and 6 get built soon.






Sites 7 (15 Penn) and 8 would have almost indentical programming, with equal amounts of office and retail, with nearly a half million sf of retail between them. I would like to see a nice winter garden between the two towers there.






A little more reading on how it all ties in...

[SkyHigher]

Twin Supertalls Revealed as Part of Garden City, Possible Relocation of Madison Square Garden, in Midtown Manhattan

https://www.newyorkyimby.com/2021/01...manhattan.html

[Crawford]

Yes, please. This would be fantastic.

And even the community board NIMBYs are on-board. Probably because the neighborhood is almost entirely non-residential.

[chris08876]

I literally shouted "holy shit". Wow!



Happy Friday everyone!!!!!!!!

[BuildThemTaller]

Wow! This would be awesome. I love the idea of a bright, open, glassy MSG with a huge map on the ceiling, too.

The massing of these towers reminds me a lot of the recently-completed NEMA Chicago designed by Raphael Vionly. There's a similar design going up in Detroit, the Hudson Block. It was originally planned as the shorter of two twins but the second has not been developed yet. My sincere hope is that they avoid as much blue glass as possible here in this part of the city. There's way too much of that already.