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  #4041  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 3:13 PM
bobcat bobcat is offline
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100 story buildings are usually built to make a statement because they rarely make sense economically. One will be built in LA if and only if a developer can be convinced it makes financial sense.
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  #4042  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 5:48 PM
Wilcal Wilcal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJXN View Post
Chicago built the Sears Tower because it wanted to consolidate all of it's offices (which were scattered all over the city) into one central location. Keep in mind that Sears Roebuck was (at the time) the largest retailer in the world with over 350k employees so it was a necessity. Fast forward a couple of decades and Sears is falling further an further downhill. I live across the street from a Sears store and I haven't been inside one since my grandmother brought me a pair of Bugle Boy pants when I was like 10.

In the US, there are only 4 buildings with 100+ stories. Sears (I refuse to call it Willis), John Hancock, One World Trade, and the Empire State Building. Skyscrapers are fine and dandy only if the situation calls for it. London has a population around 8 million but just one supertall that the US Bank Tower is still taller than. Your lust for a 100 story building in LA is fine but LA should focus on increasing it's urbanitity as opposed to building supertall skyscrapers just because. So what if it does? And then what? Back in the 90's, LA proposed the 9th and Figueroa Tower which was 90 stories and 1,270 feet tall. Cancelled. Plus, it would've stuck out but not in a good way.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/...b10b0753_o.jpg
Brandon,
while I do agree with your argument as a whole, it is interesting to note that yes the 1990's proposed supertall would have stuck out for some time, but given the current buildings and future proposals it would have been an interesting focal point of a newer southward migrating cluster of skyscrapers in DTLA.
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  #4043  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 6:17 PM
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^ I realize this is a thread devoted to skyscrapers......this is skyscraperpage.com, after all.....which is fine & all, but that may make ppl forget the reality of....

It's the economy, stupid!

some of the ppl most devoted to...or obsessed by...the idea of new devlpt in dtla being as tall as possible, or being preferably super tall, often don't seem as interested in the economics of the hood, or of LA in general. If so, their fandom about tall bldgs....with virtual reality....will always be in conflict with actual reality.

I wish LA's economy could support what skyscraper fans want to see happen. I myself would be thrilled to see something like that super tall next to angel's flight become more than cheap talk. But I've been waiting yrs & yrs for dt's economy to finally support all the existing office space in the hood, much less new space. But reports keep coming out about how many businesses & the ppl who go with those businesses still prefer working, if not living....elsewhere, esp areas like silicon beach or glendale, or hollywood.

similarly, many ppl have vastly different tastes. I think of all the ppl who despise GH palmer's apt bldgs....hardly surprising since that devlpr is a stereotype of a person obsessed with creating the exact same cheesy style over & over again. He must have OCD.

His newest apt bldg in dt, the one on broadway near the ace hotel, has a street facing facade that suggests his OCD has finally given way to something less obsessive & compulsive.

Guess again.



broadwaypalaceapartments.com


broadwaypalaceapartments.com


broadwaypalaceapartments.com


broadwaypalaceapartments.com


I was in dt last night & it's quite a sight to see quite a few windows lit up in another palmer apt bldg....the one that burned down 2 yrs ago....that sits right next to.....perilously close to.....the fwy.

Another new apt bldg, by another devlpr, at 2nd & san pedro st, near city hall, is also complete & its tenants....with several of their windows lit up....make their presence known. such things create a big difference in making dt finally....finally.....feel friendlier & lived in.

the human element....& what the average person likes or doesn't like, or wants or doesn't want....can be forgotten when inanimate things like the architecture, height & urbanism of new devlpt are focused on almost to the exclusion of the animate....involving the ppl who actually are in dtla.

the sense of dt really coming to life was also evident around the whole foods mkt last night, with ppl out & about.....with things like the renovation of the Giannini bldg at 7th & olive or the bldg at 7th & olive directly east of the coulter mandell lofts, both covered in tarps, being noticeable & promising the addition of a new layer to the hood in the future.

Even the metro417 apt bldg helps things....I noticed the flood lights on the top of that bldg must have been replaced not too long ago since many of them were working instead of being noticeably burned out, as they've been in the past. the sight of the large construction site, even at night, next to it instead of a vast parking lot is also a relief.

The style of palmer's bldgs is very kitschy & ridiculously compulsive. But enough ppl apparently don't mind that since they fill up rather quickly. It's the animate....the human element...& not just the inanimate, or things like AIA awards or theories promoted by urban experts, that quite a few ppl ultimately are more likely to respond to.


Video Link



It's the amenities, stupid!



broadwaypalaceapartments.com


^ things like that in palmer's broadway palace apt proj presumably add sizzle to the sale. Even though I've read that many of those type of amenities aren't used by most tenants in the typical apt bldg....here or anywhere else.... they do help draw a distinction between his bldgs & those of his competitors. They, along with things like heavy landscaping & decorative fountains, also must add quite a bit of cost to new devlpt.
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  #4044  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 8:35 PM
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Wasn't in town long. Snapped a few pics. Looks like the 10 story section of Broadway Palace is working on it's last floor. I wish the height minimum for this street was 14 stories rather than 10. It's still decent infill. I like how you can see 888 S Hope in the last photo.

DSC_8270 by mojeda101, on Flickr

DSC_8271 by mojeda101, on Flickr

DSC_8272 by mojeda101, on Flickr

DSC_8280 by mojeda101, on Flickr

DSC_8277 by mojeda101, on Flickr

DSC_8278 by mojeda101, on Flickr
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  #4045  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 9:02 PM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJXN View Post
Chicago built the Sears Tower because it wanted to consolidate all of it's offices (which were scattered all over the city) into one central location. Keep in mind that Sears Roebuck was (at the time) the largest retailer in the world with over 350k employees so it was a necessity. Fast forward a couple of decades and Sears is falling further an further downhill. I live across the street from a Sears store and I haven't been inside one since my grandmother brought me a pair of Bugle Boy pants when I was like 10.

In the US, there are only 4 buildings with 100+ stories. Sears (I refuse to call it Willis), John Hancock, One World Trade, and the Empire State Building. Skyscrapers are fine and dandy only if the situation calls for it. London has a population around 8 million but just one supertall that the US Bank Tower is still taller than. Your lust for a 100 story building in LA is fine but LA should focus on increasing it's urbanitity as opposed to building supertall skyscrapers just because. So what if it does? And then what? Back in the 90's, LA proposed the 9th and Figueroa Tower which was 90 stories and 1,270 feet tall. Cancelled. Plus, it would've stuck out but not in a good way.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/...b10b0753_o.jpg
9th & Fig was an ugly box located outside the central skyscraper mass at the time, so it unbalanced the skyline. I'd like a retro-modern "neo Art Deco" with a tall spire, right in the center--maybe on Pershing Square? Or Bunker Hill? Something like an updated Richfied Tower (demolished in 1968 to make way for ARCO Plaza) or the Eastern Columbia, but much much taller. Or even something like the super-modern faceted Oceanwide Tower under construction in S.F., but even taller. Gehry has done some great work, and some not so great. Give him & his team a chance at a 80+ story in DTLA. Or make it an open competition. I have some ideas. I'm all for dense lower and mid-rises, 10-40 stories, but skylines need some high exclamation points too. Maybe not 100 stories, but 80-90 would be nice, & at least 1250 feet tall with a tall spire & observation & restaurant level at top. 1/3rd office floors (with some retail at the bottom), 1/3rd condo/apts, & 1/3rd hotel. Given the housing (if not office) shortage, economics would support one or more such 80+ story multiuse towers in DTLA. Look at Toronto, a much smaller city. Use the Chinese & Korean money while it is still flowing freely. The money spigot may not last forever.

Last edited by CaliNative; Jan 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM.
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  #4046  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 9:05 PM
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What is Neo Art Deco?
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  #4047  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2017, 11:20 PM
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^ A lot of the work SHoP is doing in NY could be considered Neo Art Deco. The one under construction on 57th Street (which could also be Neo Gothic) and the proposed supertalls in Brooklyn and downtown Manhattan. Those would all qualify loosely as Neo Art Deco. I'd personally love to see something like those (albeit shorter) built on the remaining lots at Wilshire and La Brea where the Purple line extension is being built. It would compliment the existing architecture so well.
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  #4048  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 2:04 AM
King Kill 'em King Kill 'em is offline
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Photos taken yesterday. I'll start out with an image that could spur conversation.

DSC_0491 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0462 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0466 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0469 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0471 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0472 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0474 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0475 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0476 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0485 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0486 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0487 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0488 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0489 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0493 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0494 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0495 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0496 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0497 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0501 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0502 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0503 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0504 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0506 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0508 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0509 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0511 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0512 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0513 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0514 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

hopefully they grow vines up these

DSC_0515 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0516 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0518 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0519 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0521 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

DSC_0522 by Oscar Gake, on Flickr

Also I have a funny story to share. Yesterday while I was taking pictures this guy asked if I was getting paid to do so. I said no and explained that I'm part of a group of people who are enthusiastic about construction and development in LA. They was kind of confused and laughed because it seemed strange to him I think.

Last edited by King Kill 'em; Jan 8, 2017 at 2:24 AM.
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  #4049  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 2:58 AM
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Thanks for your update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kill 'em View Post
Also I have a funny story to share. Yesterday while I was taking pictures this guy asked if I was getting paid to do so. I said no and explained that I'm part of a group of people who are enthusiastic about construction and development in LA. They was kind of confused and laughed because it seemed strange to him I think.
Yes, let's face it... our hobby is little nerdy.
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  #4050  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 3:48 AM
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Amazing update! What is that a groundbreaking tombstone?
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  #4051  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 4:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJXN View Post
Chicago built the Sears Tower because it wanted to consolidate all of it's offices (which were scattered all over the city) into one central location. Keep in mind that Sears Roebuck was (at the time) the largest retailer in the world with over 350k employees so it was a necessity. Fast forward a couple of decades and Sears is falling further an further downhill. I live across the street from a Sears store and I haven't been inside one since my grandmother brought me a pair of Bugle Boy pants when I was like 10.

In the US, there are only 4 buildings with 100+ stories. Sears (I refuse to call it Willis), John Hancock, One World Trade, and the Empire State Building. Skyscrapers are fine and dandy only if the situation calls for it. London has a population around 8 million but just one supertall that the US Bank Tower is still taller than. Your lust for a 100 story building in LA is fine but LA should focus on increasing it's urbanitity as opposed to building supertall skyscrapers just because. So what if it does? And then what? Back in the 90's, LA proposed the 9th and Figueroa Tower which was 90 stories and 1,270 feet tall. Cancelled. Plus, it would've stuck out but not in a good way.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/...b10b0753_o.jpg
I work in Architecture and you are almost there. Architecture and real estate are a business, buildings are built on money and demand. Skyscrapers are very hard to come by due to the high cost of building one and maintaining one. Everyone on this site probably knows that in business districts where land is valuable and thus expensive, towers are the way to go to get more bang for your buck. Developers expect a return on their investment as soon as possible when developing plots of land for commercial offices, retail, or housing.

When it comes to the architecture of whatever is getting built, developers have different tastes and visions of their projects, and the architect's job is to compromise all factors that are in the way of the final product, including the building code, the local zoning code and standards, community input, the contractor, the engineering aspect, and developers (at the minimum). LA is too spread out in the zoning to push for more conceivable supertall projects, that and the cost of the parking requirements (I think it is currently at 2 spaces per unit for residential) alone makes it hard for developers to be willing to spend that money for a large risk. (I feel that with our underdeveloped public transportation system, it is difficult to force the parking requirements to change, since to move around in our city, Metro only allows access to a small percentage of the county/city and many amenities are not within walking distances from stations. Cars are still needed by people and if developers decide to not have parking, they risk missing out on potential tenants.)

The 2008 economic crisis didn't help at all in terms of developers. Though the 2008 crisis had a ton of different factors at play for the collapse (due to the amount of projects, GCs got greedy and pumped up their bidding prices and thus elevating the costs of many projects as one example), developers don't want to risk investing money on a building that will remain empty. Downtown LA already had issues with empty office space even before 2008, so there is no real incentive to go high with towers. Office space returns more profit to developers much faster than residential, which is why you rarely see relatively tall residential towers (the NYC supertalls are a weird misnomer), so developers have even less incentive to build high in LA.

I wanted to become an architect because I wanted to one day be on a team to design a tower, but you learn that there is a ton of factors at play in getting to build one other than fantasies. I still want to see LA densify but many people need to face reality that money is needed and that there needs to be a market for it. There is a reason why not a lot of affordable housing doesn't get built as often, because the return on the investment is not acceptable to profit-seeking developers as luxury housing. Btw, most affordable housing is developed by non-profit organizations sadly.

Sources: I interviewed AIG, The Moinian Group, Champion Real Estate while working on my Senior Project at Architecture School four years ago (I did my project design at the now u/c Oceanwide Plaza) and worked for an office that did affordable housing.
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  #4052  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThebiteofSuarez View Post
I work in Architecture and you are almost there. Architecture and real estate are a business, buildings are built on money and demand. Skyscrapers are very hard to come by due to the high cost of building one and maintaining one. Everyone on this site probably knows that in business districts where land is valuable and thus expensive, towers are the way to go to get more bang for your buck. Developers expect a return on their investment as soon as possible when developing plots of land for commercial offices, retail, or housing.

When it comes to the architecture of whatever is getting built, developers have different tastes and visions of their projects, and the architect's job is to compromise all factors that are in the way of the final product, including the building code, the local zoning code and standards, community input, the contractor, the engineering aspect, and developers (at the minimum). LA is too spread out in the zoning to push for more conceivable supertall projects, that and the cost of the parking requirements (I think it is currently at 2 spaces per unit for residential) alone makes it hard for developers to be willing to spend that money for a large risk. (I feel that with our underdeveloped public transportation system, it is difficult to force the parking requirements to change, since to move around in our city, Metro only allows access to a small percentage of the county/city and many amenities are not within walking distances from stations. Cars are still needed by people and if developers decide to not have parking, they risk missing out on potential tenants.)

The 2008 economic crisis didn't help at all in terms of developers. Though the 2008 crisis had a ton of different factors at play for the collapse (due to the amount of projects, GCs got greedy and pumped up their bidding prices and thus elevating the costs of many projects as one example), developers don't want to risk investing money on a building that will remain empty. Downtown LA already had issues with empty office space even before 2008, so there is no real incentive to go high with towers. Office space returns more profit to developers much faster than residential, which is why you rarely see relatively tall residential towers (the NYC supertalls are a weird misnomer), so developers have even less incentive to build high in LA.

I wanted to become an architect because I wanted to one day be on a team to design a tower, but you learn that there is a ton of factors at play in getting to build one other than fantasies. I still want to see LA densify but many people need to face reality that money is needed and that there needs to be a market for it. There is a reason why not a lot of affordable housing doesn't get built as often, because the return on the investment is not acceptable to profit-seeking developers as luxury housing. Btw, most affordable housing is developed by non-profit organizations sadly.

Sources: I interviewed AIG, The Moinian Group, Champion Real Estate while working on my Senior Project at Architecture School four years ago (I did my project design at the now u/c Oceanwide Plaza) and worked for an office that did affordable housing.
Thanks for your input.

Supertalls are nice to look at, but more often than not they don't make a lot of sense to build. Especially in a place like LA where there's still a ton of places in the city's core to build on (don't tell me we're running out of room, cuz we're not).
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  #4053  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:35 AM
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America's Favorite FF Chain, Chick-Fil-A, to Open First Downtown LA Location on 7th Street

http://brighamyen.com/2017/01/08/chi...on-7th-street/
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  #4054  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by colemonkee View Post
^ A lot of the work SHoP is doing in NY could be considered Neo Art Deco. The one under construction on 57th Street (which could also be Neo Gothic) and the proposed supertalls in Brooklyn and downtown Manhattan. Those would all qualify loosely as Neo Art Deco. I'd personally love to see something like those (albeit shorter) built on the remaining lots at Wilshire and La Brea where the Purple line extension is being built. It would compliment the existing architecture so well.
Neo Art Deco & Neo Gothic are better than the boxes that characterizes most modern architecture. The Seagrams and Lever House were fine but in the 1950s through the 1970s almost every building was a knockoff of these Mies curtain wall boxes. Functional, but boring repetition. Who doesn't love spires on tall buildings and even some gargoyles in moderation? Architecture can be fun and playful, and an homage to the past as well as a search for new styles. "Post modern", although flawed and eclectic and sometimes a mish mash of styles, at least broke out of the box mentality. The 150 foot height limit L.A. had until the late 1950s deprived it of some tall skyscrapers that would have become classics. Even in the 1920s, L.A. without a 150' limit would probably have had several 25+ story Art Decos and gothics. We thankfully do have 454' City Hall (exempted from the limit) a Mayan pyramid revival and good because it is not a box. Most people around the world could recognize it as an L.A. building. Aliens blasted it in the original "War of the Worlds" film in 1953, and it was Clark Kent's "Daily Planet" in the T.V. series. Capitol Records too--Hollywood. Our boxy skyscrapers? Few could place them in L.A. We do have some stubby examples that somehow evaded the 150' limit a bit, like the Eastern Columbia with a clock tower, a bit over 200' and the old Texaco Building, about the same height. The demolished Richfield tower went even higher, 380' with the "oil derrick" spire. Spires add interest. Boxes are boring. Repeal of the helicopter landing pad law was a permission slip for spires, and that will add interest to the skyline. Like I've said before, a 900-1100' neo Richfield building somewhere in DTLA would be magnificent. Facing a refurbished Pershing Square, perfect.

Last edited by CaliNative; Jan 8, 2017 at 11:11 AM.
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  #4055  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 10:19 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty View Post


America's Favorite FF Chain, Chick-Fil-A, to Open First Downtown LA Location on 7th Street

http://brighamyen.com/2017/01/08/chi...on-7th-street/
The old "post modern" Home Savings headquarters is one of my fave buildings in DTLA. Great French mansard roof. Old style individual windows. Stone facing. If it were 20 stories higher with a pointy spire on top--even better.

Last edited by CaliNative; Jan 8, 2017 at 10:50 AM.
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  #4056  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 1:55 PM
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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...130-story.html

Apparently Downtown is having its largest boom since the 1920's.
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  #4057  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 3:26 PM
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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...130-story.html

Apparently Downtown is having its largest boom since the 1920's.
Just wait til the purple line is finished. I have a feeling DTLA, ktown and west lake are just getting started.
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  #4058  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 4:18 PM
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Great Job King Killem on the construction photos.
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  #4059  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojeda101 View Post
Wasn't in town long. Snapped a few pics. Looks like the 10 story section of Broadway Palace is working on it's last floor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kill 'em View Post
Photos taken yesterday.




the article in the LA Times about all the new devlpt going on in dt obviously is for those ppl in LA who don't closely track what's going on the way that ppl do in this thread....which means most ppl. So it doesn't answer too many questions that forumers don't already know the answer to or aren't already familiar with. It would have been helpful if it went into detail about how quickly or slowly new apts are being rented in projs like 8th & grand...but that wasn't the point of the article.

It said that what's going on today is the greatest amt of growth in dt since the 1920s. but it didn't mention one major difference between what's occurring right now & the past is the amt of higher quality housing. Not a lot of that...or any of that....was built over 80 yrs ago in dt.

the lack of appeal of that section of LA as a place to not just work but also live greatly hurt the hood's advancement. It was a big reason the center went downhill so dramatically starting around the 1940s.

when visiting dt the other evening, even with all the new construction or renovation sites in darkness, I still felt a level of confidence about dt....about its future....that I've never had before. But it should have been this way from the very beginning.....& maybe it would have been if more ppl in LA in the past had been more like this about new devlpt.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kill 'em View Post
explained that I'm part of a group of people who are enthusiastic about construction and development in LA.



there are rumors this proj may not be in the bag for dtla....or the southern branch of dt....after all. Something to do with where ppl....when looking at cable cars & a large rust colored bridge...are more likely to want to leave their hearts? If so, boo to that.

Quote:
The Bay Area could soon learn whether billionaire filmmaker George Lucas will try — again — to build a high-profile museum on a prime spot on San Francisco Bay.

The board of the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art is likely to meet by the end of this week to vote on whether to pursue development plans on Treasure Island, across from the Ferry Building in San Francisco, or in Los Angeles at Exposition Park near the University of Southern California.

San Francisco’s bid for the museum includes an expectation that Lucas would pay roughly $26 million for the 4-acre site, an amount that city officials say is above market value. Los Angeles proposes to lease its 7-acre site to Lucas for a nominal $20 a year.

“Treasure Island is all about the future,” Lee said, talking about how the planned community emphasizes alternatives to automobiles, including a new ferry terminal next to Lucas’ desired site. “Having the Lucas museum there would make the island that much more innovative.”

By contrast, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti stressed the central location of Exposition Park, where the Lucas museum would replace a pair of parking lots near such attractions as the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and the California African American Museum.

“We’ve got an incredible site that’s the center of the universe, at the crossroads of our mass-transit system, educational institutions, entertainment and arts and sports,” Garcetti said Friday. “It’s not on an island in the bay.”

A potential obstacle is the Treasure Island site would require an OK from the California State Lands Commission, which has regulatory control over much of the island. However, the commission’s staff has indicated that making room for a museum shouldn’t be a problem, although the final decision must be approved by the actual commission.
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  #4060  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:25 PM
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WestCoastSupertall WestCoastSupertall is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty View Post


America's Favorite FF Chain, Chick-Fil-A, to Open First Downtown LA Location on 7th Street

http://brighamyen.com/2017/01/08/chi...on-7th-street/
More activation of that corner! Great! Although I'm still boycotting them
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