Dead Malls of Canada

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Rumour has it the mall is slated for demolition.

So ends another dark chapter in the history of the Forest City.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Wharn

So ends another dark chapter in the history of the Forest City.

Haha, ya. I hope they demolish it, I've already got my own dream proposal drawn up for the sight.

[vid]

Originally Posted by shreddog

This blew my mind when I heard this ... does T Bay really need 3 Walmarts???

Considering how busy the current Walmart is, I think so. Sudbury has two of them and will end up with at least 3 or 4 under the same deal that is giving us two Walmarts. Zellers is basically a slightly more expensive Walmart, anyway.

Originally Posted by shreddog

Hmmm, not that I disagree, but this is how I would categorize it

Malls recently dead and back alive ...
T Bay Mall

Malls never dead
Intercity
Granview (<< strange as it seems)

Malls dead and gone (or soon to be)
County Fair (the one in Vid's post)
Keskus (torn down)

Dead and still dead
Northwood
Victoriaville

What would be your 2 back to life other than T Bay mall?

Northwood has had some trouble keeping an anchor tenant in the former Zellers, but for the most part that mall isn't doing too bad. I would say it is more of a zombie. Not dead but not living either. It's kind of amazing that it has done so poorly considering how disconnected Northwood is from Intercity.

Victoriaville has been getting minor renovations all over the place and with the courthouse development it has a lot of opportunities. A coalition of Victoriaville tenants has been working on getting the mall re-branded as Fort William Business Centre. It is, at this point, a large office complex with some street level stores. (It would have been more cool if the stores were underground like in Winnipeg.) The city is putting more effort into moving city offices into it, and I think it would make a logical re-location for the Government services centre and St. Joseph's Care Group facility in County Fair, since the downtown core is designated as a government centre but currently lacks any provincial facilities, and SJCG has a large operation in the mall. When you go to Victoriaville at lunch time, it is surprising how busy that place is.

Grandview never was dead but with the uncertainty around SAAN, the controversy of A&P's expansion (a bunch of long time tenants were kicked out to accommodate it) and now the uncertainty around the Shoppers Drug Mart (a new Shoppers is being built a mile down the street at the Brew Pub site so the County Fair location might not be the only one to close) and Royal Bank (RBC has been on a new branch building kick lately and they close two branches for every new one) might see the mall in jeopardy again. Its small size is probably why it has done so well, though.

Regarding County Fair, I can't find the website of its owners and can't recall who they were, but I found this PDF from Colliers International. It shows the property line for County Fair Plaza. I didn't know the Canadian Tire was also separately owned from the mall. Walmart will own the blue area in the map on page two; it is currently owned by Zellers, and under the national agreement, Walmart is buying about 170 such properties from Zellers. I am unsure about the situation regarding the Zellers in Arthur Street Marketplace.

Map of County Fair Mall:



Red properties are vacant as of this week. I surprised myself at being able to name almost every store that was in those spots when I was a kid.

[russman]

The laundromat in County Fair is now vacant as well.

Also vid, the medical facility is TBRHSC not St Joe's.

[vid]

I thought it was St. Joes? They both use a lot of yellow so I guess I got confused.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Haha, ya. I hope they demolish it, I've already got my own dream proposal drawn up for the sight.

I like your proposal, although frankly I'd be happy with any new urbanist development at that site. We should acknowledge, however, that redevelopment along pedestrian-friendly principles is a little difficult since the entire site basically sits in a giant ditch.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I like your proposal, although frankly I'd be happy with any new urbanist development at that site. We should acknowledge, however, that redevelopment along pedestrian-friendly principles is a little difficult since the entire site basically sits in a giant ditch.

Ya, it's more of a pipe dream really! The empty field across the street would be perfect though. I agree that I'd take anything else at this site, because it has to be at the most depressing intersection in London.

[Taeolas]

Well, Highfield Square in Moncton's death bell is ringing. The Bay has been given its marching orders, and from other comments so have the rest of its tenants. No official word yet on what will replace it, but there's a lot of hope for Moncton's new (as yet unannounced) Convention centre.

[suburbanite]

I haven't been to many malls in Canada, but I do remember going to the old mall in downtown Sarnia When I was younger and it was absolutely deserted. I think there were two stores open in the entire place. All of downtown Sarnia was pretty barren though, the placement of wal-mart and other big box stores away from core has really killed the downtown area.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I haven't been to many malls in Canada, but I do remember going to the old mall in downtown Sarnia When I was younger and it was absolutely deserted. I think there were two stores open in the entire place. All of downtown Sarnia was pretty barren though, the placement of wal-mart and other big box stores away from core has really killed the downtown area.

I went into Lambton Mall in the summer of 2010, and it was dead with a lot of vacant stores. The same day I went to Birchwood Mall in Port Huron, Michigan, and it was packed. Half the license plates in the parking lot were Ontario plates.

I really wish the Ontario government would recognize that government regulations which make operating businesses more expensive in Ontario than in Michigan are not allowing local businesses in border communities to compete effectively with similar businesses across the border. Then again, I have noticed that gas stations in Sarnia don't even try to compete with the gas stations in Port Huron, while gas stations in Niagara Falls and even Welland tend to be significantly cheaper than gas stations closer to Hamilton.

[BretttheRiderFan]

One thing I'd love to see is every mall dead in Canada (save for the ones that don't promote massive sprawl and parking lots ala Pacific Centre in Vancouver or the Eaton's Centre.

[Symz]

This is a bit off topic, but the thread title made me think of something. The introduction of the biggest mall in Windsor in the 70's killed our downtown retail and effectively made it a retail deadzone. It's still struggling to this day while the mall thrives.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I went into Lambton Mall in the summer of 2010, and it was dead with a lot of vacant stores. The same day I went to Birchwood Mall in Port Huron, Michigan, and it was packed. Half the license plates in the parking lot were Ontario plates.

I really wish the Ontario government would recognize that government regulations which make operating businesses more expensive in Ontario than in Michigan are not allowing local businesses in border communities to compete effectively with similar businesses across the border. Then again, I have noticed that gas stations in Sarnia don't even try to compete with the gas stations in Port Huron, while gas stations in Niagara Falls and even Welland tend to be significantly cheaper than gas stations closer to Hamilton.

I agree with you Manny, Windsor retail has to compete with Detroit, and the prices in the states are so low anyone who's not used to it would probably find it shocking.

Myself I stick to shopping here in Windsor. I know the retailers need the business and I support them, even if it costs me a little more.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by Symz

This is a bit off topic, but the thread title made me think of something. The introduction of the biggest mall in Windsor in the 70's killed our downtown retail and effectively made it a retail deadzone. It's still struggling to this day while the mall thrives.

I wonder how much of a coincidence it is that since the West Edmonton Mall opened, development in the city centre has been relatively stagnant.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

I wonder how much of a coincidence it is that since the West Edmonton Mall opened, development in the city centre has been relatively stagnant.

W.E.M. is still the biggest mall in Canada right? Is it still the biggest mall in North America? Or was it ever? Just curious.

I know in the states they have those crazy malls that they even based reality TV shows on..

[Doug]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

I wonder how much of a coincidence it is that since the West Edmonton Mall opened, development in the city centre has been relatively stagnant.

It definitely contributed, but there were other factors at play:

1) The oil bust of the early 80s
2) Growth in the provincial bureaucracy slowed dramatically (and shrank for a while in the 90s)
3) Some Provincial government workers moved to suburban locations (ex. Neil Crawford Center)
4) LRT construction on Jasper in the 80s disrupted business for so long that many customers never came back
5) Edmonton made some dubious attempts to prop up downtown in the 80s like subsidizing the Eaton Center and Manulife 2 developments. This produced a lot of low quality product that was mostly vacant, further promoting the White Elephant image of downtown
6) Whyte Ave emerged as the entertainment street
7) Other suburban malls expanded in an attempt to compete with WEM (ex. Kingsway in 91, Londonderry in 92, Westmount in 90)

[chrisallard5454]

At one point it was the largest in the world. now it is the Largest in N.A. And something like the 8th largest in the world. Dubai now has the worlds largest mall.



Wikipedia



Same



Do I need to say?

[vid]

My street was totally rebuilt in 1994/1995, and in 2000 they rebuilt the bridge connecting it to the city, and while both projects were intended to help the neighbourhood, they just made things worse. Sure, the street itself is pretty, but all the business is gone. The bridge project resulted in our bus route having its frequency cut in half, as well. About a third of the building stock that existed in 1995 has either burned down or been demolished.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by Symz

W.E.M. is still the biggest mall in Canada right? Is it still the biggest mall in North America? Or was it ever? Just curious.

I know in the states they have those crazy malls that they even based reality TV shows on..

Still the biggest mall in Canada and North America...and was the biggest mall in the world until recently.

There have been a ton of malls built in Asia in the last ten years that are larger than the WEM, here's a list of the largest on Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by Doug

It definitely contributed, but there were other factors at play:

1) The oil bust of the early 80s
2) Growth in the provincial bureaucracy slowed dramatically (and shrank for a while in the 90s)
3) Some Provincial government workers moved to suburban locations (ex. Neil Crawford Center)
4) LRT construction on Jasper in the 80s disrupted business for so long that many customers never came back
5) Edmonton made some dubious attempts to prop up downtown in the 80s like subsidizing the Eaton Center and Manulife 2 developments. This produced a lot of low quality product that was mostly vacant, further promoting the White Elephant image of downtown
6) Whyte Ave emerged as the entertainment street
7) Other suburban malls expanded in an attempt to compete with WEM (ex. Kingsway in 91, Londonderry in 92, Westmount in 90)

I don't know why but I've always loved Jasper Avenue, though I do admit that Whyte is pretty damn cool.

I'm currently in the process of deciding whether to go to MacEwan and stay near Jasper, or go to the U of A and stay near Whyte....

My parents want me to stay in Grande Prairie for a year and go to college here but I would definitely prefer to get away asap, even though I feel like an angsty teenager.