City Murder Rates

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by badrunner

It's not an assumption that suspension of civil rights and rule of law can lead to lower crime. Just look at authoritarian countries. It's not that we don't know how to fight crime. It's that we have different values.

And you presented no evidence São Paulo police reduced crimes dramatically by killing more. Nor explained why Rio de Janeiro is way more violent while their police kills much much more than São Paulo.

It's funny you're talking about "values", with a tacky sense of own superiority. It reminds me of the Brazilian Legal class which is also extremely arrogant and look down to the US as an uncivilized, vulgar place, with death penalty, life sentences, no paroles, mass incarceration, legal sponsored violence, while Brazilian Penal Law is much more enlightened, following its traditional Roman-German model and the most progressive law trends.

[Yuri]

As people insist to find the dark side of an increasing public safety, police lethality is not the best example of it. Social/racial profiling is the main issue by far.

I, for instance, live in maybe the only district in São Paulo where there are good degree social class mixing. And I'm fully aware I'll never be stopped by the police nor have an unpleasant interaction with them. On the other hand, they always ask, and not politely, to check the bags, the pockets of young (and not so young) men with a specific look.

As Brazil is still a violent country, and São Paulo while not that violent anymore, people here still carry psychological scars of the violent past and everybody sees it as a minor issue and are perfectly fine to allow the police to be tough. Police in São Paulo is very present and make itself visible everywhere.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

But I'm not excusing those deaths. I'm just saying the fact of Brazilian police being lethal, didn't help São Paulo to improve its rates on the past two decades.

In Rio de Janeiro state, for instance, police kills even more than São Paulo's in absolute numbers, even though RJ state population is only 1/3 of SP's. It goes without saying Rio is much more violent than São Paulo. Crime rates actually improved a bit there, but nowhere near close the scale of São Paulo.

Investing on police, improving crime rates, has nothing should with police killing more. It means police has good condition to do a better job.

I'm pretty sure that Brazil's drop in crime coincided with the police "pacification" programs... At least Rio's did. I don't know whether São Paulo also implemented a similar program (I suspect it did), but Rio basically struck an agreement with the gangs that they would focus on social issues in exchange for a reduction in violence. That is believed to have cut Rio's murder rate in half within like 5 years. But almost no U.S. city would translate "more police" into progressive policy (and, again, there are already enough police in most big cities).

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Yuri

It's funny you're talking about "values", with a tacky sense of own superiority. It reminds me of the Brazilian Legal class which is also extremely arrogant and look down to the US as an uncivilized, vulgar place, with death penalty, life sentences, no paroles, mass incarceration, legal sponsored violence, while Brazilian Penal Law is much more enlightened, following its traditional Roman-German model and the most progressive law trends.

Sorry if you read it that way. But that's probably more revealing of your own sense of inadequacy than any actual arrogance on may part. I'm actually very humble. And you shouldn't take it so personally when people point out that certain countries are still clearly lacking in the areas of civil society and rule of law, particularly when you are the one who held up Brazilian policing as a "model" for other countries to emulate.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm pretty sure that Brazil's drop in crime coincided with the police "pacification" programs... At least Rio's did. I don't know whether São Paulo also implemented a similar program (I suspect it did), but Rio basically struck an agreement with the gangs that they would focus on social issues in exchange for a reduction in violence. That is believed to have cut Rio's murder rate in half within like 5 years. But almost no U.S. city would translate "more police" into progressive policy (and, again, there are already enough police in most big cities).

In Rio de Janeiro not only that, but in several poor hoods, criminal gangs were replaced by "militias", formed by retired police, dirt cops and others. Common crimes fell as result, but they are themselves criminal organizations.

São Paulo public administration is much more organized, robust and effective than Rio de Janeiro, where the state is virtually broken for ages and always dependent on federal help. Organized crimes controlling vast sections of the city has always be a much bigger problem in SP than it was/is in Rio.

People from other states usually notice how much more visible police in São Paulo are. They are everywhere, with their cars, horses, bikes, helicopters, fed in real time with good intel and reacting extremely quick at calls. That certainly contributes to push crime rates down.

I concede that it might not work in Chicago, St. Louis or Baltimore though. Not sure how things are on the ground there. In São Paulo it worked very well. The state decided to act firmly and results came. I hear Medellín and Bogotá also reduced crime, but I know virtually nothing about those places nor how they tackle their problem there.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Sorry if you read it that way. But that's probably more revealing of your own sense of inadequacy than any actual arrogance on may part. I'm actually very humble. And you shouldn't take it so personally when people point out that certain countries are still clearly lacking in the areas of civil society and rule of law, particularly when you are the one who held up Brazilian policing as a "model" for other countries to emulate.

Not "Brazilian policing", but São Paulo policing, and more specifically, São Paulo policing between early 2000's and today.

If you see a good experience, specially in a field that helps a lot the welfare of the whole society, there's no problem to ackowledge this. Good experiences might take anywhere in the world, not only in the US as you seem to imply. Even in countries much poorer than Brazil we can maybe find good solutions to social problems we might have.

São Paulo state did a very good job reducing murder rates and crimes in general. São Paulo is definitely a much more liveable place because of that and literally tens of thousands of lives were spared in those past 20 years.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Yuri

If you see a good experience, specially in a field that helps a lot the welfare of the whole society, there's no problem to ackowledge this. Good experiences might take anywhere in the world, not only in the US as you seem to imply. Even in countries much poorer than Brazil we can maybe find good solutions to social problems we might have.

Organized crimes controlling vast sections of the city has always be a much bigger problem in SP than it was/is in Rio.

“ Two major organizations -- First Capital Command and Red Command -- dominate this hyperviolent contest for control. The core of their power lies in the connections between prison gangs and street gangs. From prison, these groups consolidate control over criminal enterprises, shape strategies, ruthlessly attack competitors and exert internal discipline over their members.”

https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...largest-cities

The problem is that crime in São Paolo, at least from English language reporting, is quite different from what exists in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore. Apparently in São Paolo, there’s a handful of large powerful organizations that exert *internal discipline over their members* who are able to negotiate under the table with government officials. Large hierarchical gangs are more predictable and can be deterred somewhat by regular police patrols.

A Chicago or Detroit gang on the other hand is often just a couple of kids in their teens or twenties who got riled up online over stupidity like arguments on social media, rap videos, girlfriends or stolen drugs, and decided to kill each over it…thus triggering multiple retaliatory killings. (Almost everybody killed has about 3 degrees or fewer separation from the shooter) Even the professional drug gangs are fairly small scale operations. But for the police who have to monitor and contain about 850 different feuding gangs with tens of thousands of members in total, it’s essentially like herding cats.

This touched off an online war between the two rappers that lasted for weeks, and young Chicagoans followed in real time as it escalated.
…
On September 4, 2012, Lil JoJo drove down Black Disciples’ block, a few streets from his own. He posted video footage to his Twitter account in which he shouts profanities at someone he passes who clearly shouts back, “I’ma kill you.” That same afternoon, amid a flurry of broadside taunts fired off on social media by each side, Coleman tweeted, “lmao im on 069 Stop The Fuckin flexin.” A little while later, while riding on the back pegs of a friend’s bicycle, JoJo was shot and killed on the 6900 block of South Princeton Avenue
…
Coleman’s murder sparked a round of back-and-forth retaliation killings—a 26-year-old parolee who appeared in a video mocking JoJo’s death, an 18-year-old in a JoJo sweatshirt on Christmas Day. #BDK and #GDK (Gangster Disciples Killers) became trending terms on Twitter, showing up in thousands of tweets. At Coleman’s funeral, posted to YouTube, hundreds of youths sang in unison the chorus to his online hit: They “claim 300 but we BDK.” The Chicago police fielded calls from departments in four different states, where officers were struggling to understand why people in their jurisdictions were declaring themselves to be warring branches of the Disciples and fighting over some kids from Chicago’s South Side.
…
The prevalence of gun crimes in Chicago is due in large part to a fragmentation of the gangs on its streets: There are now an estimated 70,000 members in the city, spread out among a mind-boggling 850 cliques, with many of these groupings formed around a couple of street corners or a specific school or park.

https://www.wired.com/2013/09/gangs-of-social-media/

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...largest-cities

The problem is that crime in São Paolo, at least from English language reporting, is quite different from what exists in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore. Apparently in São Paolo, there’s a handful of large powerful organizations that exert *internal discipline over their members* who are able to negotiate under the table with government officials. Large hierarchical gangs are more predictable and can be deterred somewhat by regular police patrols.

Now you quoted my post, I see I mispelled it. Rio de Janeiro had a bigger problem.

About government officials negotiating with organized crime in São Paulo is fake news originally made up by the left-wing opposition (São Paulo government is controlled by the centrist PSDB since 1994) and then readily adopted by the far-right when it started to rise around 2016, electing Bolsonaro in 2018. As the far-right talked lots about public safety without having any coherent plan to present aside "praise the police and make them kill criminals", they started to attack their opponents.

About First Capital Command, all their leaders are serving long-time sentences in federal penitentiaries outside São Paulo state precisely to lessen their grip over their members. This organization is still responsible by a good share of crimes, dominating international drug traffic and bank robbery but the idea they completely "control crime" in a 22 million metro area and seat at the table with state officials is laughable. Even the original authors of those fake news don't use them anymore as they're a patently false and the voters don't care anyways.

------------------------------------------

But it's ok, if you live up there and telling me there is nothing you can do about Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland crime, all posting murder rates 5x, 8x higher than São Paulo, despite being in a country with much more human and material resources than Brazil, I won't argue. Maybe there's nothing you can do about it and Chicago's 800 murders/year is something written in stone.

I just talking about there are jurisdictions out there that used to have insane high crime rates, took a political decision to cut them down and it worked. I guess not even the policymakers back in the year 2000 or so imagined they'd have such great results.

[Chisouthside]

I don't think anyone of us is arguing that nothing can be done, it's just that some of the methods you suggested have either been tried and not worked or would cause more harm. And while it might not be a "Brazilian" police model, the BOPE style police units are present in most of the big cites.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Yuri

But it's ok, if you live up there and telling me there is nothing you can do about Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland crime, all posting murder rates 5x, 8x higher than São Paulo, despite being in a country with much more human and material resources than Brazil, I won't argue. Maybe there's nothing you can do about it and Chicago's 800 murders/year is something written in stone.

Why are you comparing one Brazilian city to multiple US cities that happen to have the worst crime rates? What's the point of that?

Overall, murders and crime rates are MUCH higher in Brazil compared to the US... it's in another universe, but I guess nothing can be done about that either and you just don't care... maybe try slaughtering more civilians?

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I don't think anyone of us is arguing that nothing can be done, it's just that some of the methods you suggested have either been tried and not worked or would cause more harm. And while it might not be a "Brazilian" police model, the BOPE style police units are present in most of the big cites.

I think they’re severely underestimating how much general social trends in Brazil are responsible for the fall in crime more than policy. The homicide rates in the state of São Paolo are not stunningly different than the homicide rates in the general Southern region. The trend strongly resembles the fall in white and Hispanic homicide rates in the U.S. over a similar 20 year period.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...tm_name=iossmf

Also if there’s widespread consensus that a single powerful gang has achieved a monopoly over the local drug market in Sao Paolo, that’s a HUGE difference compared to U.S. cities. It doesn’t matter if the government negotiates with them or not, there will be fewer outbreaks of random gang warfare.

Central American countries that have not enacted policing or public safety reforms have also seen significant homicide declines once a powerful gang takes over, even if the national government became weaker over that time.

The PCC recognised that violence was bad for business and only attracted police scrutiny, so it opted for a “more professional way”, said Mr Manso, outlining how the 30,000-member gang created a structured system for selling narcotics, typically via WhatsApp. “São Paulo is today the least violent state, but it is the most important market for drugs,” he remarked.

In São Paulo, “we have a monopoly. There is no war because we have a monopoly in organised crime,” said Renato de Lima, president of the Brazil Forum for Public Security.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....2-f785092ab560

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I don't think anyone of us is arguing that nothing can be done, it's just that some of the methods you suggested have either been tried and not worked or would cause more harm. And while it might not be a "Brazilian" police model, the BOPE style police units are present in most of the big cites.

BOPE is an elite unit of Rio's police. Like the US SWAT. It has a movie quality, but it's not representative of daily policying in Brazil.

Reality is more bland. Type Polícia Militar Sao Paulo on Google Image and you come up with this: https://www.google.com/search?q=poli...&bih=914&dpr=1

That's more like reality. Straight grey uniforms, regular cars and weapons. Nothing glamourous.

Originally Posted by badrunner

Why are you comparing one Brazilian city to multiple US cities that happen to have the worst crime rates? What's the point of that?

Overall, murders and crime rates are MUCH higher in Brazil compared to the US... it's in another universe, but I guess nothing can be done about that either and you just don't care... maybe try slaughtering more civilians?

Because there are only handful cities in the world that managed to reduce crime rates in a very meaningful way. New York, that I don't need to talk about it as you're way more familiar with their realities, than you have São Paulo where I've been living for the past 9 years so I know one or two things about it and Medellín and Bogotá, places I know very little about it. There are not many examples.

What I'm arguing is, that's possible to reduce crime if the local authorities are commited with it. The point is, if São Paulo did it, why should I believe Chicago is helpless? But again, if you say Chicago cannot do it, let's agree to disagree.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I think they’re severely underestimating how much general social trends in Brazil are responsible for the fall in crime more than policy. The homicide rates in the state of São Paolo are not stunningly different than the homicide rates in the general Southern region. The trend strongly resembles the fall in white and Hispanic homicide rates in the U.S. over a similar 20 year period.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...tm_name=iossmf

Also if there’s widespread consensus that a single powerful gang has achieved a monopoly over the local drug market in Sao Paolo, that’s a HUGE difference compared to U.S. cities. It doesn’t matter if the government negotiates with them or not, there will be fewer outbreaks of random gang warfare.

Central American countries that have not enacted policing or public safety reforms have also seen significant homicide declines once a powerful gang takes over, even if the national government became weaker over that time.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....2-f785092ab560

Galleyfox, that's not accurate. Paraná and Rio Grande do Sul states homicides rates are way above São Paulo, even though they're "more white" and "less unequal". Curitiba (Paraná's capital) homicides rates peaked at stunningly 50/100,000 around 2014.

Santa Catarina (the whitest state, the more equal, and the smallest poverty rate) was traditionally the least violent state in Brazil, but saw its homicide rates to grow two, three-fold, specially in their bigger coastal cities (Joinville, Itajaí, Florianópolis).

Bringing the South into the discussion, reinforce São Paulo's case: PR and RS was much more violent and now they're improving their rates, by emulating some policies tested in SP whereas SC saw the crimes got completely out of control in the past three years.

P.S. "Brazil Forum for Public Security" is a left-wing organization of lawmakers, which is fairly common as Law class in Brazil is a bit left-leaning (used to be more in the past). Nothing wrong with being left, but they're biased. They believe Brazilian Criminal Law, which is one of the softest in the world, should be even softer or that there are too many people in jail in Brazil (1/3 of the US, despite being a much more violent country).

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by Acajack

More like 74, no?

Oops, it's even worse than I thought. A bad year for homicides. I don't know how I got 64, but it was somewhere on the T.P. website.

[KevinFromTexas]

2021 Austin Metro Murders

| Austin 73 | Travis Co. 78 | Bastrop Co. 1 | Caldwell Co. 5 | Hays Co. 2 | Williamson Co. 7 | Metro 93 |

Metro Cities

Austin - 73
Population - 995,484

Bastrop - 0
Population - 9,743

Buda - 1
Population - 17,544

Cedar Park - 3
Population - 81,040

Elgin - 0
Population - 10,756

Georgetown - 0
Population - 85,538

Hutto - 1
Population - 29,987

Kyle - 0
Population - 51,558

Lakeway - 0
Population - 16,216

Leander - 1
Population - 70,519

Lockhart - 1
Population - 14,069

Martindale - 3
Population - 1,189

Pflugerville - 3
Population - 66,826

Round Rock - 3
Population - 137,575

San Marcos - 1
Population - 66,350

Taylor - 0
Population - 17,921

Tilmon - 1

Causes metrowide
Shooting - 76
Stabbing - 7
Strangled - 0
Suffocation - 0
Throwing (of child) - 0
Beating - 0
Vehicular homicide - 0
Blunt force trauma - 2
Sharp force trauma - 0
Unlisted cause - 7
Domestic terrorism - 0

Austin totals
Downtown - 6
Central Austin - 3
East Austin - 13
North Austin - 15
Northeast Austin - 8
Northwest Austin - 7
South Austin - 8
Southeast Austin - 11
Southwest Austin - 1
West Austin - 1

Victims
Male - 66
Female - 17
Unlisted - 9

| Jan 7 | Feb 10 | Mar 11 | Apr 8 | May 9 | Jun 9 | Jul 7 | Aug 4 | Sep 15 | Oct 10 | Nov 3 | Dec 0 |

-

| Mon 17 | Tue 11 | Wed 14 | Thur 12 | Fri 7 | Sat 13 | Sun 18 |

-

Murder cases

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/suspect-charged-with-capital-murder-after-man-was-found-dead-in-round-rock/?utm_campaign=alert_bar&utm_source=side_bullets - Round Rock shooting - 1/9

1 dead - https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/one-person-dead-after-shooting-in-northeast-austin - Austin shooting - 1/11

1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-5000-brighton-road - Austin shooting - 1/18

1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/01/22/hays-county-sheriffs-office-investigating-apparent-shooting/6681601002/ - Buda shooting - 1/21

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-killed-after-shootout-between-two-groups-at-north-austin-complex-police-say/ - Austin shooting - 1/23

2 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-1912-w-35th-street - Austin shooting - 1/26

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/one-person-dead-after-shooting-in-north-austin/?fbclid=IwAR2QlQlGL89M9QlIMXNDSAU9spvMEhu31Cpqo8Jsl-tQaPXWOlrPLuNNY4o - Austin shooting - 1/29

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/police-investigating-suspicious-death-in-east-austin-2/ - Austin shooting - 2/2

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/police-investigating-suspicious-death-in-southeast-austin-3/ - Austin obvious trauma - 2/3

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/suspicious-death-being-investigated-in-central-austin/ - Austin shooting - 2/6

2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/elderly-couple-found-dead-in-suspected-murder-suicide-at-cedar-park-home/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2d0OJqQ9Lwib8K-06sGBipshijYzvjNIcP2vCkMkef1W-GjrUamnIZ9ws - Cedar Park murder/suicide - 2/9

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/19-year-old-man-stabbed-and-killed-northeast-austin-fight-police-say/ - Austin stabbing - 2/16

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-faces-murder-charge-after-wife-found-dead-at-south-austin-hotel-room/ - Austin unlisted cause - 2/16

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/toddler-dies-during-february-winter-storm-austin-police-investigating-as-homicide/ - Austin unlisted cause - 2/18

2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/travis-county/travis-county-deputies-investigate-possible-murder-suicide-involving-two-male-relatives/ - Pflugervile shooting - 2/19

1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/25/hutto-teacher-julie-hall-disappearance-husband-travis-hall-charged-with-murder/5352450001/ - Hutto blunt force trauma - 2/19 

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/one-man-dead-after-shooting-at-north-austin-apartment-complex/ - Austin shooting - 2/28

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/police-investigating-deadly-shooting-in-downtown-austin-early-sunday-morning/ - Austin shooting - 3/14

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-arrested-on-murder-charge-after-san-marcos-woman-found-dead-on-backyard-patio/ - San Marcos body found - 3/15

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/homicide-investigation-underway-after-death-thursday-morning-in-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 3/18

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/one-person-dies-in-southeast-austin-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 3/21

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/police-reporting-to-scene-of-shooting-incident-in-northwest-austin-residents-should-avoid-the-area/ - Austin shooting - 3/22

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-suspicious-death-in-south-austin-neighborhood/ - Austin shooting - 3/25

1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-6600-block-bradley-dr - Austin shooting - 3/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-taken-to-a-hospital-with-life-threatening-injuries-after-shooting-at-east-austin-home/ - Austin shooting - 3/28

1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-11100-block-n-ih-35-svrd - Austin shooting - 3/28 

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-homicide-in-nw-austin/ - Austin shooting - 3/31

1 dead - https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/leander-texas-police-knife-suspect/269-2018951c-a1c4-4d00-b9b4-c543b4ff4e3a - Leander stabbing - 3/31

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-deadly-shooting-in-se-austin/ - Austin shooting - 4/6

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/austin-police-investigating-homicide-in-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 4/13

3 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/active-shooter-reported-at-arboretum-in-northwest-austin-3-reportedly-injured/ - Austin shooting  - 4/18

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/poli...stin-homicide/ - Austin shooting - 4/25

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-south-austin/ - Austin shooting - 4/26

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...in-apartments/ - Austin shooting - 4/29

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...dziJCzKgAY6OeM - Austin shooting - 5/2

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/16-y...n-bell-county/ - Austin shooting - 5/5

1 dead - https://www.kvue.com/article/news/cr...a-a8fd7e9920c3 - Lockhart shooting - 5/7

2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...ldwell-county/ - Martindale shooting - 5/10

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...g-for-suspect/ - Austin shooting - 5/15

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/15-y...wntown-austin/ - Austin shooting - 5/20

1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homi...us-highway-290 - Austin shooting - 5/23

1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news...ty/5286265001/ - Pflugerville stabbing - 5/31

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/top-stories/tcs...-south-austin/ - Pflugerville shooting - 6/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...theast-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/11

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...mass-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 6/12

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/12

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...n-parking-lot/ - Austin shooting - 6/17

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/1-de...stin-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 6/20

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...n-east-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/23

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...y-expo-center/ - Austin shooting - 6/24

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...ied-by-police/ - Austin stabbing - 6/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-de...in-cedar-park/ - Cedar Park shooting - 7/7

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/man-dead-t...thwest-austin/ - Austin shooting - 7/12

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-pe...ar-6th-street/ - Austin shooting - 7/17

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/homi...tion-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 7/17

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/ceda...tment-complex/ - Cedar Park stabbing - 7/20

1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homi...-frontage-road - Austin stabbing - 7/23

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/will...ning-homicide/ - Round Rock shooting - 7/26

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/pers...unday-morning/ - Austin shooting - 8/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...austin-murder/ - Austin shooting - 8/2

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/33-y...tin-apartment/ - Austin shooting - 8/11

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...-south-austin/ - Austin shooting - 8/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...rly-wednesday/ - Austin shooting - 9/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...rly-wednesday/ - Austin shooting - 9/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/82-y...shot-to-death/ - Tilmon shooting - 9/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...n-east-austin/ - Austin shooting - 9/3

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/homi...-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 9/4

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...orth-austin-2/ - Austin shooting - 9/9

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...unday-morning/ - Austin shooting - 9/12

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...unday-morning/ - Austin stabbing - 9/12

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/1-person-w...-north-austin/ - Austin body found with trauma - 9/14

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...n-east-austin/ - Austin shooting - 9/16

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/22-y...-in-louisiana/ - Bastrop County beating - 9/18

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...stin-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 9/20

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/will...g-as-homicide/ - Round Rock shooting - 9/25

1 dead - https://www.kvue.com/article/news/cr...4-3d98ed2d5e24 - Austin shooting - 9/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/16-y...omplex-monday/ - Austin shooting - 9/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...orth-austin-2/ - Austin shooting - 10/3

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...theast-austin/ - Austin shooting - 10/6

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/cald...rtindale-home/ - Martindale shooting - 10/11 

2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...ting-homicide/ - Austin shooting - 10/19

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/trav...travis-county/ - Travis County shooting - 10/21

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...t-austin-home/ - Austin shooting - 10/23

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...thwest-austin/  - Austin shooting - 10/27

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-than-8-hours/ - Austin shooting - 10/27

1 dead - https://www.fox7austin.com/news/apd-...t-parking-spot - Austin shooting - 10/31

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/apd-search...y-house-theft/ - Austin shooting - 11/1

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...thwest-austin/ - Austin shooting - 11/4

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-north-austin/ - Austin unlisted cause - 11/4

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Pending cases

1 dead - https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/apd-investigating-deceased-person-in-hotel-room-in-north-central-austin - 2/14 

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/travis-county/18-year-old-found-dead-on-recycling-center-conveyor-belt-in-travis-county/ - 3/24

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/28-year-old-dies-morning-after-fight-at-east-austin-strip-club-suspect-arrested/ - Austin beating - 4/7

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/adult-pronounced-dead-after-being-found-in-ravine-by-bystanders-off-us-290/ - Austin body found - 5/20

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/man-dies-after-reportedly-being-run-over-by-car-in-north-austin-parking-lot/ - Austin vehicular homicide - 6/25

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/suspicious-death-in-northwest-austin-under-investigation/ - Austin body found - 8/11

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-officer-fires-weapon-during-gun-battle-in-downtown-austin-teen-in-critical-condition-after-shootout/ - Austin shooting - 10/9

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/hays...tJjOPmPcJyff54 - Wimberley body found  - 10/10

1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/hays...cvs-pharmacy/- Kyle body found - 10/13

-

Previous years

2020 - City - 44 - Metro - 68
2019 - City - 35 - Metro - 57
2018 - City - 35 - Metro - 44
2017 - City - 23 - Metro - 43
2016 - City - 28 - Metro - 50
2015 - City - 21 - Metro - 43
2014 - City - 31 - Metro - 42
2013 - City - 26 - Metro - 46
2012 - 32
2011 - 28
2010 - 31
2009 - 23
2008 - 24
2007 - 30
2006 - 20
2005 - 26

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Previous years per month

2021 - Jan 7, Feb 9, Mar 11, Apr 8, May 7, Jun 9, Jul 7, Aug 4, Sep 14, Oct 10,
2020 - Jan 6, Feb 6, Mar 9, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 9, Jul 5, Aug 6, Sep 5, Oct 6, Nov 6, Dec 2
2019 - Jan 4, Feb 7, Mar 4, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 5, Jul 6, Aug 6, Sep 2, Oct 1, Nov 5, Dec 8
2018 - Jan 4, Feb 1, Mar 8, Apr 3, May 4, Jun 5, Jul 2, Aug 5, Sep 8, Oct 1, Nov 3, Dec 1
2017 - Jan 1, Feb 6, Mar 7, Apr 1, May 5, Jun 3, Jul 3, Aug 6, Sep 2, Oct 2, Nov 0, Dec 7
2016 - Jan 1, Feb 1, Mar 1, Apr 3, May 4, Jun 6, Jul 10, Aug 6, Sep 11, Oct 6, Nov 4, Dec 6
2015 - Jan 2, Feb 6, Mar 3, Apr 5, May 1, Jun 4, Jul 2, Aug 3, Sep 4, Oct 1, Nov 4, Dec 9
2014 - Jan 4, Feb 3, Mar 6, Apr 2, May 1, Jun 4, Jul 2, Aug 1, Sep 4, Oct 5, Nov 7, Dec 5
2013 - Jan 3, Feb 6, Mar 1, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 2, Jul 4, Aug 2, Sep 6, Oct 5, Nov 2, Dec 5

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Austin area population

City: 961,855 2020 Census - source: US Census Bureau
Travis County: 1,290,188 2020 Census - source: US Census Bureau
Metro: 2,283,371 2020 Census - source: US Census Bureau

Area - City: 297 square miles (2010) - US Census Bureau
Area - Metro: 4,285 square miles - Wikipedia
Area - Travis County: 1,023 square miles - Wikipedia

[bossabreezes]

Not sure why this turned into a Brazil bashing thread considering this has always been a thread about American or Canadian homicide rates. Also, some people here generalizing Brazil, my home country, and lumping it together with Mexico are extremely ignorant.

Anyway

Austin’s homicide rate is probably going to end 100% higher this year than last year. Defund then police failed in Minneapolis amongst a public vote, so clearly Americans do not want this violence and are ready to hold politicians and criminals responsible. You’d never know it if you only watched mainstream media, since they are extremely anti-safety and pro impunity.

Chicago is at 725 as of yesterday, 10 shy of the 2020 total of 735. No problems there though, Chicago has always been violent.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I concede that it might not work in Chicago, St. Louis or Baltimore though. Not sure how things are on the ground there. In São Paulo it worked very well. The state decided to act firmly and results came. I hear Medellín and Bogotá also reduced crime, but I know virtually nothing about those places nor how they tackle their problem there.

American cities don't have the same "unorganized" characteristic. The roles of police agencies in every U.S. city are well defined, so there are no "off-limits" places that cops don't touch, which might exist in Rio and other parts of Brazil with "untouched" favelas.

Also, this conversation seems to not acknowledge that the U.S. is extremely policed already. There are no holes in police enforcement in the United States. If anything, the U.S. attributes too many societal functions to the domain of policing.

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Not sure why this turned into a Brazil bashing thread considering this has always been a thread about American or Canadian homicide rates. Also, some people here generalizing Brazil, my home country, and lumping it together with Mexico are extremely ignorant.

Anyway

Austin’s homicide rate is probably going to end 100% higher this year than last year. Defund then police failed in Minneapolis amongst a public vote, so clearly Americans do not want this violence and are ready to hold politicians and criminals responsible. You’d never know it if you only watched mainstream media, since they are extremely anti-safety and pro impunity.

Chicago is at 725 as of yesterday, 10 shy of the 2020 total of 735. No problems there though, Chicago has always been violent.

Curious as to where you got that figure of 725.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Not sure why this turned into a Brazil bashing thread considering this has always been a thread about American or Canadian homicide rates. Also, some people here generalizing Brazil, my home country, and lumping it together with Mexico are extremely ignorant.

Anyway

Austin’s homicide rate is probably going to end 100% higher this year than last year. Defund then police failed in Minneapolis amongst a public vote, so clearly Americans do not want this violence and are ready to hold politicians and criminals responsible. You’d never know it if you only watched mainstream media, since they are extremely anti-safety and pro impunity.

Chicago is at 725 as of yesterday, 10 shy of the 2020 total of 735. No problems there though, Chicago has always been violent.

I'd add that being soft on crime (or even perceived to be soft), specially on places plagued with this problem, is a very slippery road. Voters will punish such politicians in the due time. Look at Minneapolis...

All those notions that the US is somehow "superior" to Brazil, that public opinion up there is more "tolerant" are extremely naive. The US as a society, its judiciary, is way tougher on crime than Brazil, be it from the law enforcement or criminal legislation itself.

If Americans were subjected to the same degree of violence Brazilians are, they would demand a much more drastic response than anything people are fantasizing about São Paulo state police deeds. And it's be a non-partisan issue. I have zero doubt on that.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I'd add that being soft on crime (or even perceived to be soft), specially on places plagued with this problem, is a very slippery road. Voters will punish such politicians in the due time. Look at Minneapolis...

All those notions that the US is somehow "superior" to Brazil, that public opinion up there is more "tolerant" are extremely naive. The US as a society, its judiciary, is way tougher on crime than Brazil, be it from the law enforcement or criminal legislation itself.

If Americans were subjected to the same degree of violence Brazilians are, they would demand a much more drastic response than anything people are fantasizing about São Paulo state police deeds. And it's be a non-partisan issue. I have zero doubt on that.

The only places in the U.S. I can think of that are even remotely "soft on crime", perception or otherwise, are places like San Francisco or Portland, that have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. The rhetoric is severely out of line with reality, and is mostly driven by a partisan agenda. San Francisco has a murder rate that is half the rate in Dallas, and Portland's rate is a fourth of Dallas's, but you'd never know that from following the media rhetoric.