PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[jaysb]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Understood. But I live in Fishtown and I'm not going to 19th & Walnut to work out. I'm hoping Sprouts will be a big draw in the new Festival Pier development to attract a few other big name tenants like a gym, etc.

Tangentially...it's insane to me our parks don't have small calisthenics areas or elderly mobility equipment (I'm sure there are a few in Philly but I've yet to see them). But I guess it's just not common in the US.

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

Has anyone been near 37th and Chestnut lately? Someone on Reddit said it looks like the new Target was stalled/postponed.

I may or may not be that same person...
But I was out there I think two weekends ago and they were removing the fencing. Last weekend there was new fencing up in the same spot. Maybe one contractor was leaving so they took their fence with them? I haven't been on a weekday, so I can't comment on whether people have been working on the site.

The store was previously listed on Target's website but has since been removed. https://corporate.target.com/about/l...pcoming-stores
A store in San Diego was removed at the same time and there's been a decent amount of reporting on it.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Dan1

I may or may not be that same person...
But I was out there I think two weekends ago and they were removing the fencing. Last weekend there was new fencing up in the same spot. Maybe one contractor was leaving so they took their fence with them? I haven't been on a weekday, so I can't comment on whether people have been working on the site.

The store was previously listed on Target's website but has since been removed. https://corporate.target.com/about/l...pcoming-stores
A store in San Diego was removed at the same time and there's been a decent amount of reporting on it.

Crosschecking via the archive.org Wayback Machine, the Philadelphia listing was removed on September 27. There are two web page snapshots from that date — the earlier one (15:12:20) shows the Philadelphia store; in the later one (21:52:05) it is missing.

PA – Philadelphia:
Located at 3701 Chestnut St.; Approx. 22,000 sq. ft.

Interestingly that deletion occurred one day after their September 26 announcement of 9 store closings in major cities nationwide.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230000...pcoming-stores

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Crosschecking via the archive.org Wayback Machine, the Philadelphia listing was removed on September 27. There are two web page snapshots from that date — the earlier one (15:12:20) shows the Philadelphia store; in the later one (21:52:05) it is missing.

PA – Philadelphia:
Located at 3701 Chestnut St.; Approx. 22,000 sq. ft.

Interestingly that deletion occurred one day after their September 26 announcement of 9 store closings in major cities nationwide.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230000...pcoming-stores

I mean...they've been pulling stores outta Philly lately. Not a shocker.

I think these closures are just getting started.

[skyhigh07]

Its probably best not to not over speculate. People have been saying that the bottom is going to drop out with CC retail since 2020 if not longer. While there are certainly issues and concerns, closings can be attributed to a variety of factors. Its funny reading the comments on other forums. The two extremes are either "everything is fine, we don't need corporate retail anyway" or "Center City is a deserted hellscape". Reality is much more nuanced and tempered.

[Nanyika]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

Comcast or whoever owns the lots have been promising a lifestyle center for years now. I understand the Fusion Center didn't go as planned so far. I would love to see another Arena built and maybe more hotels, labs, offices and bars. I have my doubts it will happen but the opportunity exist for the amount of parking existing.

As I understand it, the city of Philadelphia still owns those lots, at least south of Pattison Ave. Comcast leases the land from the city. That area used to be designated as parkland, part of League Island Park (now FDR Park). Later, at the time of the Sesquicentennial Exposition of 1926, Municipal Stadium was built there. Originally, the stadium was surrounded by trees and green grass, not parking lots.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Its probably best not to not over speculate. People have been saying that the bottom is going to drop out with CC retail since 2020 if not longer. While there are certainly issues and concerns, closings can be attributed to a variety of factors. Its funny reading the comments on other forums. The two extremes are either "everything is fine, we don't need corporate retail anyway" or "Center City is a deserted hellscape". Reality is much more nuanced and tempered.

Agree 100%. People need to take a chill pill about the retail environment. It's a bumpy ride everywhere right now, so it's going to be moving forward in fits and starts.

Just saw a headline on PBJ that the big announcement for Wayfair at the KOP mall is now canceled. If that kind of thing is happening at one of the top retail destinations on the East Coast, it's obviously the case everywhere.

Everyone should keep in mind the macroeconomy here. There's clearly a lot of fallout from the commercial lending environment, which is going to take a toll on development/retail internationally.

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Crosschecking via the archive.org Wayback Machine, the Philadelphia listing was removed on September 27. There are two web page snapshots from that date — the earlier one (15:12:20) shows the Philadelphia store; in the later one (21:52:05) it is missing.

PA – Philadelphia:
Located at 3701 Chestnut St.; Approx. 22,000 sq. ft.

Interestingly that deletion occurred one day after their September 26 announcement of 9 store closings in major cities nationwide.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230000...pcoming-stores

I can't believe they'd be planning stores in midtown St. Louis and Detroit but would cancel a store in University City.

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Crosschecking via the archive.org Wayback Machine, the Philadelphia listing was removed on September 27. There are two web page snapshots from that date — the earlier one (15:12:20) shows the Philadelphia store; in the later one (21:52:05) it is missing.

PA – Philadelphia:
Located at 3701 Chestnut St.; Approx. 22,000 sq. ft.

Interestingly that deletion occurred one day after their September 26 announcement of 9 store closings in major cities nationwide.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230000...pcoming-stores

I can't believe they'd be planning stores in midtown St. Louis and Detroit but would (potentially) cancel a store in University City.

[el don]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

I can't believe they'd be planning stores in midtown St. Louis and Detroit but would (potentially) cancel a store in University City.

Neither of those cities have experienced looting in the past year.

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by el don

Neither of those cities have experienced looting in the past year.

That's true, but I also kind of doubt one night of it (when no Targets in the vicinity were hit) would cause them to instantly pull the plug on that store.

Plus, those cities have perpetually declining populations and nowhere near the foot traffic of University City.

[aprice1828]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

I can't believe they'd be planning stores in midtown St. Louis and Detroit but would (potentially) cancel a store in University City.

The St. Louis location will have a surface parking lot, not really your standard urban Target. Plus it's the 2nd location in a 66 sq mile city of 300k people where almost all of their customers own cars.

The closing of their 1128 Chestnut store was unfortunate but they probably weren't offering anything you couldn't find at the new Giant or Ross / Burlington / TJ Maxx / Primark. They were likely hesitant after having just closed a store.

[Dan1]

It appears Grocery Outlet is opening a new store at 4301 Chestnut St as shown in signage permits. I don't believe I've seen any mention of this yet.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/eclipse-doc...022-014243.pdf

There remains one large vacant retail space as well as a smaller leased restaurant space (I believe a local restaurant is relocating) in this Alterra modular apartment building.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

We need better gyms in Center City and its environs.

City Fitness isn't cutting it.

I'd love a Lifetime Fitness. Also, the Riverwards (NoLibs, Fishtown, South Kensington, Port Richmond) are a different submarket and we need a least one of everything that's downtown.

Fishtown def in the same boat. We need a bigger legit gym. City Fitness and PF are over capacity.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Dan1

It appears Grocery Outlet is opening a new store at 4301 Chestnut St as shown in signage permits. I don't believe I've seen any mention of this yet.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/eclipse-doc...022-014243.pdf

There remains one large vacant retail space as well as a smaller leased restaurant space (I believe a local restaurant is relocating) in this Alterra modular apartment building.

Great to see grocery stores popping up in many neighborhoods these days.

Wegman's just opened their first Manhattan store this week, I wonder where in Philadelphia a Wegmans would work??

[Dan1]

Some updates from today:
Target at 37th and Chestnut has seen no progress in the last couple of weeks

IMG_20231021_123849 by Dan100101, on Flickr
MVIMG_20231021_123828 by Dan100101, on Flickr

Just across 38th demolition is nearing completion for a new life science building.
IMG_20231021_124053 by Dan100101, on Flickr

And at 38th and Lancaster the triangular lot that formerly housed a bank is once again seeing some progress, with demolition of the old foundation.
IMG_20231021_125331 by Dan100101, on Flickr
IMG_20231021_125228 by Dan100101, on Flickr
IMG_20231021_125140 by Dan100101, on Flickr
00000IMG_00000_BURST20231021125103714_COVER by Dan100101, on Flickr

In the first photo, you can see some progress on the two lots that were demolished a little while back on Lancaster, that work seems to be dirt/foundations. And directly behind where the photo was taken will be a new Santucci's located in ANOVA at University City.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Dan1

Some updates from today:
Target at 37th and Chestnut has seen no progress in the last couple of weeks

Speaking of that project, there's some news on what's going to happen to the remaining old house between there and the tower at 3737 Chestnut:

Current view:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9550...8192?entry=ttu

Future use:

The DP, Inc. to relocate to a new office at 37th and Chestnut

[cardeza]

Groundbreaking for first residential buildings at the navy yard- two buildings with 614 units total.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Great to see grocery stores popping up in many neighborhoods these days.

Wegman's just opened their first Manhattan store this week, I wonder where in Philadelphia a Wegmans would work??

Wow. It's like 50% food court, 50% grocer - Inline with their current direction. That place is impressive.

I've always thought that a regular format (large) Weggies would work in that stretch between Spring Garden and Callowhill on 2nd street. But that Manhattan space would work in Philly in a number of spots. Off hand, I'd say that failure in the Bourse could accommodate. Once Macy's pulls the plug, that could work. Even the Marshalls on Market.

I wonder if Philly is "high-end" enough for them to roll the dice.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Wow. It's like 50% food court, 50% grocer - Inline with their current direction. That place is impressive.

I've always thought that a regular format (large) Weggies would work in that stretch between Spring Garden and Callowhill on 2nd street. But that Manhattan space would work in Philly in a number of spots. Off hand, I'd say that failure in the Bourse could accommodate. Once Macy's pulls the plug, that could work. Even the Marshalls on Market.

I wonder if Philly is "high-end" enough for them to roll the dice.

The Wegmans in Brooklyn is very disappointing tbh.

When you shop for food in a city, as we all do, most people develop a sort of cadence around how they shop for food. I went to the Wegmans in the Brooklyn Navy Yard once.

It's too disconnected from the neighborhoods in Brooklyn to have it make sense as a place where you get prepared meals. It's dry goods offerings were woefully short (I recall there being only like 10 aisles), which was disappointing because that's what I was looking forward to leveraging it for .

I recall the cheese section was exceptional. But I don't eat cheese much anymore because my body can't handle it. And the fish section was exceptional as well.

So in my head, after I went to that Wegmans, I noted if I needed good seafood at a reasonable price it would be a spot to go. Only it's not near anything and you need to drive to get there...and giving up a spot in Brooklyn anywhere to go fetch a piece of fish simply isn't worth it.

The Manhattan store is obviously better situated to make the prepared food sections much more relevant. But we'll see. The suburban aesthetic of the branding feels off for downtown Manhattan. Wegmans' aesthetic is dated generally, at this point, but particularly for an urban outpost.

This locaiton will for sure be a success but I'm interested to see what balance it strikes. Certainly better for residents in that area as compared to Brooklynites relative to their respective local offerings.