The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by vid

NovaBuses are pretty reliable. Thunder Bay's first batch of Newflyers in 1994 were all shit (they had to be sent back to Winnipeg for a total rebuild less than a year after receiving them) but overall they're a good product now. Toronto will probably be fine.

Even 40 foot buses have trouble in heavy snow, Thunder Bay shuts down parts of routes or diverts them to "snow routes" to avoid trouble spots when we have heavy snow, Toronto might want to do the same. If you set up a detour that will always be used in certain conditions and people know about it, it has less impact on service than an arbitrarily decided detour.

We rarely have enough snow to affect bus routes. usually 2-3 times a year, and when we do, it is all gone on the roads by the end of the week anyways. Toronto gets less snow than any other major Canadian city other than Vancouver.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

We rarely have enough snow to affect bus routes. usually 2-3 times a year, and when we do, it is all gone on the roads by the end of the week anyways. Toronto gets less snow than any other major Canadian city other than Vancouver.

But having articulated buses in Toronto is a serious issue because of snow?

I'm confused now.

[memememe76]

I guess you need to define "major city." Toronto really gets less snow than Victoria?

[TownGuy]

If Victoria were in Ontario it would be the 8th largest CMA in the province.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I guess you need to define "major city." Toronto really gets less snow than Victoria?

I think he meant like top 10 city. Or perhaps over 500k to 700k.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by vid

But having articulated buses in Toronto is a serious issue because of snow?

I'm confused now.

Remember even when it rains in January in Toronto, the city lays down a carpeting layer of salt because it can freeze and create black ice in spots.

I dont know about the whole less snow thing, but yes the snow when it does fall usually doesnt stick around long.

[losername]

Toronto basically gets the same amount of snow as Calgary and Edmonton, more than Winnipeg, and quite a bit more than the B.C. cities.

[travis3000]

One KEY piece of information here. The 133cm of annual snowfall figure in Toronto that is thrown around is measured in the NW section of the city at Pearson. Downtown Toronto usually receives about 35% less snowfall than Pearson. The downtown core of Toronto is LUCKY to receive 85-90cm of snow annually. Due to the lake, the downtown is usually 1-3C WARMER each day and night than northern parts of Toronto like the airport, and 3-5C warmer than areas 1 hour north of the city.

And since Environment Canada's weather data runs from 1970 to 2000, it's important to note that Toronto has been receiving less harsh winters over the past 10-15 years , with some years the downtown core barely recording 40cm of snow the entire year. Plus, while Pearson airport technically has reported an average annual snowfall 10-20cm higher than major prairie cities, one should also take into consideration that Toronto's winters are less harsh when it comes to average winter temperatures than anywhere in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. This is true regardless of whether you look at average monthly highs, average monthly lows, or mean temps.

[J.OT13]

My mistake; they already subtract the 22 km of shared track when giving the length the Millennium which is actually 42.3 km with the shared stretch.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by travis3000

One KEY piece of information here. The 133cm of annual snowfall figure in Toronto that is thrown around is measured in the NW section of the city at Pearson. Downtown Toronto usually receives about 35% less snowfall than Pearson. The downtown core of Toronto is LUCKY to receive 85-90cm of snow annually. Due to the lake, the downtown is usually 1-3C WARMER each day and night than northern parts of Toronto like the airport, and 3-5C warmer than areas 1 hour north of the city.

And since Environment Canada's weather data runs from 1970 to 2000, it's important to note that Toronto has been receiving less harsh winters over the past 10-15 years , with some years the downtown core barely recording 40cm of snow the entire year. Plus, while Pearson airport technically has reported an average annual snowfall 10-20cm higher than major prairie cities, one should also take into consideration that Toronto's winters are less harsh when it comes to average winter temperatures than anywhere in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. This is true regardless of whether you look at average monthly highs, average monthly lows, or mean temps.

I can vouch for that. The lake creates somewhat of a microclimate making temperatures more moderate. The winters are warmer and summers cooler the closer you get to the lake. Half of the winter storms southern Ontario gets turn into rain events in Cobourg due to the lake. Same obviously applies to downtown Toronto which tends to be even warmer still.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by losername

Toronto basically gets the same amount of snow as Calgary and Edmonton, more than Winnipeg, and quite a bit more than the B.C. cities.

That might be true. But as Travis stated our snowfall count by Environment Canada is not even done in the city of Toronto.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by travis3000

One KEY piece of information here. The 133cm of annual snowfall figure in Toronto that is thrown around is measured in the NW section of the city at Pearson. Downtown Toronto usually receives about 35% less snowfall than Pearson. The downtown core of Toronto is LUCKY to receive 85-90cm of snow annually. Due to the lake, the downtown is usually 1-3C WARMER each day and night than northern parts of Toronto like the airport, and 3-5C warmer than areas 1 hour north of the city.

And since Environment Canada's weather data runs from 1970 to 2000, it's important to note that Toronto has been receiving less harsh winters over the past 10-15 years , with some years the downtown core barely recording 40cm of snow the entire year. Plus, while Pearson airport technically has reported an average annual snowfall 10-20cm higher than major prairie cities, one should also take into consideration that Toronto's winters are less harsh when it comes to average winter temperatures than anywhere in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. This is true regardless of whether you look at average monthly highs, average monthly lows, or mean temps.

We are talking about operating conditions for the new articulated buses. The artics aren't going be operating in downtown Toronto or anywhere near the lake, are they?

[vid]

The temperature difference between Port Arthur and Fort William, the two parts of Thunder Bay located 5 kilometres apart, is usually about 5 degrees, give or take. At this time of year, with a southerly wind, the difference could be nearly 20 degrees. Go inland to the next down, and it will be in the 30s while we flounder in the high teens. In fall and spring, one end of the city will usually have twice as much snow as the other. My neighbourhood sometimes has no snow left while the north end still has 3 foot tall snowbanks.

But I'm not going to go on about how our climate data doesn't apply because half the city is colder and wetter than the other half.

Toronto gets more snow because it is downwind of large water bodies. Thunder Bay gets less snow than Toronto because we don't have a giant lake for cold, dry air to grab water out of and dump it on us. The other side of the lake from us gets more than twice as much snow as we do, because there is somewhere for the snow to come from. Winnipeg gets even less snow than Thunder Bay because they have even fewer sources of moisture than us upwind of them in winter.

Vancouver, BC (technically, the Vancouver Airport in Richmond) gets more heavy snowfall events (40+ cm) than Thunder Bay.

[losername]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

That might be true. But as Travis stated our snowfall count by Environment Canada is not even done in the city of Toronto.

Do you think only Toronto's weather measuring systems are at it's respective airport. This is the case for pretty much every major city in North America its a pretty standard place for them to take measurements. So perhaps the small area of Toronto's downtown does not receive the same amount of snow as the northern parts, large chunks of the city do. And with respect to milder winters since 2000, that can be said pretty much across the country.

[losername]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

That might be true. But as Travis stated our snowfall count by Environment Canada is not even done in the city of Toronto.

He's wrong though, there is more snow DT than at the airport due to lake effect.

"Despite being cold, extended snow free periods occur in most winter seasons. Average winter snowfall is 121.5 cm (47.8 in) at the weather station in Downtown Toronto[3] and 108.5 cm (42.72 in) at the airport."[4]

4.^ a b c "1981 to 2010 Canadian Climate Normals". Environment Canada. July 2, 2013. Climate ID: 6158733. Retrieved July 19, 2013.

How Torontonians love to think they live in Miami and how the rest of Canada suffers through winters that never come to Toronto, lol.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My mistake; they already subtract the 22 km of shared track when giving the length the Millennium which is actually 42.3 km with the shared stretch.

This will be a pretty good metro system for a 2.5 million person metro

Wait until the Broadway line is built, and the Surrey extension, then it will be phenomenal IMO.

And as always the best part is it is a true metro, fully grade separated! Being automatic also adds a really cool charm that many tourists comment on from the airport to downtown.

I am excited to watch Ottawa's first line to be built as well, also nice to see at least this portion of your new system will be fully grade separated.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by losername

He's wrong though, there is more snow DT than at the airport due to lake effect.

"Despite being cold, extended snow free periods occur in most winter seasons. Average winter snowfall is 121.5 cm (47.8 in) at the weather station in Downtown Toronto[3] and 108.5 cm (42.72 in) at the airport."[4]

4.^ a b c "1981 to 2010 Canadian Climate Normals". Environment Canada. July 2, 2013. Climate ID: 6158733. Retrieved July 19, 2013.

How Torontonians love to think they live in Miami and how the rest of Canada suffers through winters that never come to Toronto, lol.

Look man no one thinks that but after Vancouver Toronto is significantly warmer than any other major city in Canada in the winter...especially if you look at mean temperatures. Not exactly saying a lot though because I wouldn't consider even Vancouver to be really "warm" during the winter.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by losername

He's wrong though, there is more snow DT than at the airport due to lake effect.

"Despite being cold, extended snow free periods occur in most winter seasons. Average winter snowfall is 121.5 cm (47.8 in) at the weather station in Downtown Toronto[3] and 108.5 cm (42.72 in) at the airport."[4]

4.^ a b c "1981 to 2010 Canadian Climate Normals". Environment Canada. July 2, 2013. Climate ID: 6158733. Retrieved July 19, 2013.

How Torontonians love to think they live in Miami and how the rest of Canada suffers through winters that never come to Toronto, lol.

Who exactly compared Toronto to Miami? Or that Toronto doesn't experience winters?

Seems like The Rest of Canada has a reading comprehension pronlem.

[losername]

Originally Posted by Doady

Who exactly compared Toronto to Miami? Or that Toronto doesn't experience winters?

Seems like The Rest of Canada has a reading comprehension pronlem.

I think you have the comprehension problem, no one has compared Toronto to Miami, re-read the past few pages if you can't keep up. I was make the point that Torontonians like to stretch the truth about their winters, and how they are so much warmer than the rest of Canada - give me a break. You're talking a few degree's difference and if you add in Toronto's winds and dampness and lack of sunshine then -5 in the t-dot feels like a sunny -20 in the prairies.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by losername

I think you have the comprehension problem, no one has compared Toronto to Miami, re-read the past few pages if you can't keep up. I was make the point that Torontonians like to stretch the truth about their winters, and how they are so much warmer than the rest of Canada - give me a break. You're talking a few degree's difference and if you add in Toronto's winds and dampness and lack of sunshine then -5 in the t-dot feels like a sunny -20 in the prairies.

Are you completely delusional? Noone in Toronto would claim to be warmer than the Lower Mainland of BC (and yes, it was you who claimed Torontonians think they're Miami). However, Toronto does experience 1 month less winter than Ottawa/Montreal (speaking as someone who has lived in Ottawa and also capable of basic research). As for the Prairies, give me a break, Toronto has 2 months less winter on average than any city in the prairies and our cold spells are far less pronounced. You guys even have outlets for block heaters in many Calgary parking lots (that's used exclusively in Northern Scandinavia, Alaska and Northern Canada, never seen one in Toronto since we don't need them). And before you give us some crap about how Calgary has chinooks, the length of winter and average temperature is inclusive of the chinook effect. And that winds and dampness comment sounds like someone who hasn't even stepped foot in this city, complete bollocks. The unexpectedly shorter and milder winters is one of the first things Albertans moving here comment on...