NEW YORK | World Trade Center Memorial & Transit Hub

[meh_cd]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Could be the first of the much talked about direct link to the site...


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/p..._content=Local

PA eyes a new PATH to Newark Airport

By JENNIFER FERMINO
September 21, 2012

Good lord, please. All of the airports need a direct rail link to the rest of the subway system. Flying into O'Hare and getting on the El right away and heading to downtown Chicago with minimal fuss is how things should be in NYC as well. (NOT A CITY VS CITY THING!)

[uakoops]

Originally Posted by meh_cd

Good lord, please. All of the airports need a direct rail link to the rest of the subway system. Flying into O'Hare and getting on the El right away and heading to downtown Chicago with minimal fuss is how things should be in NYC as well. (NOT A CITY VS CITY THING!)

Remember Airtrain? (express to JFK via the A line to Howard Beach). It was a huge flop because you then had to take a city bus to the airport. Now that the JFK monorail system (forgot what they call it) is running i'm surprised they haven't revived it. Start at Times Square, one stop at Fulton St. then straight to the airport.

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by meh_cd

Good lord, please. All of the airports need a direct rail link to the rest of the subway system. Flying into O'Hare and getting on the El right away and heading to downtown Chicago with minimal fuss is how things should be in NYC as well. (NOT A CITY VS CITY THING!)

Newark Airport is at least 11 miles away from the NYC Subway, but less than 5 or 6 miles from PATH and only 2 or 3 miles from the HBLR. It's extremely stupid to build such a long subway line to the airport when there are lines much closer to it that could be linked to it.

[NYguy]

NJ Transit alreay has direct service into NY Penn Station from Newark Airport. The Airtrain from Kennedy was originally planned to run into Manhattan, but that was killed. Since 9/11, there's been talk of a direct link from Kennedy to Lower Manhattan, which doesn't have direct connections to any airport.

The PATH extension is natural because the system planned to extend service much farther than it is today. Even now, the line itself doesn't end at Newark Penn Station, but extends almost to Newark Airport running all the way up McCarter Highway. Why service wasn't extened to the airport long before now is the question. There's been similar talk of extending subway service on the N line to LaGuardia, but nothing has ever come of it.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by NYguy

NJ Transit alreay has direct service into NY Penn Station from Newark Airport.

Not quite. It's from the "Newark Airport Railroad Station". But to get to that you have to take an Airtrain from the Airport itself. So it just adds an unneeded transfer. There should be some sort of rail going directly to the airport terminals.

[eleven=11]

are they doing more trees this year or 2013

[Noll]

WTC Progress on Facebook:

[sbarn]

Originally Posted by J. Will

Not quite. It's from the "Newark Airport Railroad Station". But to get to that you have to take an Airtrain from the Airport itself. So it just adds an unneeded transfer. There should be some sort of rail going directly to the airport terminals.

I just took the NJTransit from Manhattan to the Newark Airport this past weekend. If a person can't handle that transfer then they shouldn't live in a city. It is quite convenient. What would be unneeded is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to extend the NJTransit through the actual airport.

[Noll]

As a Dane, I would like to share this with you ;-)

The Danish Prime Minister visited the memorial today where she handed over a Danish flag which was found in the ruins. The flag used to hang in one of the lobbys. Now, it will be a part of the museum.




http://politiken.dk/politik/ECE17649...erte-stoppede/

[meh_cd]

My great grandparents were from Aalborg! Still got some relatives there on that side.

Amazing that the flag survived the destruction. Anyone know if any of the other international flags were found, and if they were in such a relatively good condition?

[Duck From NY]

<3 Denmark

Thanks for sharing

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by sbarn

I just took the NJTransit from Manhattan to the Newark Airport this past weekend. If a person can't handle that transfer then they shouldn't live in a city. It is quite convenient. What would be unneeded is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to extend the NJTransit through the actual airport.

Indeed. It should be PATH that goes into the airport itself. It would be more of an extension than a rerouting.

And maybe it was construction or something, but when I used the Airtrain a couple of months ago it moved so slow it was almost walking speed.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by J. Will

Not quite. It's from the "Newark Airport Railroad Station". But to get to that you have to take an Airtrain from the Airport itself. So it just adds an unneeded transfer. There should be some sort of rail going directly to the airport terminals.

You're not the only person who has mentioned this, but I don't understand the distinction.

JFK has eight terminals, and Newark has three terminals (soon four). It wouldn't be possible to serve all terminals with a direct subway/commuter rail link, unless you built a station under every terminal, which wouldn't make much sense in terms of expense or convenience.

Then, on the other end, only a tiny percentage of travelers will have their hotels/destinations at the end point of the subway/commuter rail line in the central city. So you have to transfer anyways (to another rail line or taxi, whatever) to get to your final destination.

So, for example, in Paris (where the rail station is directly in the terminal), you have to transfer anyways once you get in Paris, since the suburban rail doesn't reach 95% of the core Paris destinations. I don't see how there's this massive difference in relative convenience if you have to walk a long way within the terminal complex vs. taking a rail loop to a consolidated airport station, since it isn't a "one seat" ride for most folks in either scenario.

The PATH extension to Newark Airport, BTW, wouldn't actually go to the terminals. It would stop at the current consoldated rail terminal, where you take NJ Transit or Amtrak trains into Manhattan. You would still have to take the rail loop to reach your terminals.

[Continental180]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You're not the only person who has mentioned this, but I don't understand the distinction.

JFK has eight terminals, and Newark has three terminals (soon four). It wouldn't be possible to serve all terminals with a direct subway/commuter rail link, unless you built a station under every terminal, which wouldn't make much sense in terms of expense or convenience.
\
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there is no new terminal in the planning stages.... I'm not exactly sure where you are getting that claim. There was talk years ago about renovation terminal 1 but those plans have been on hold, if not scrapped for now due to the rapid increase of the WTC project.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You're not the only person who has mentioned this, but I don't understand the distinction.

JFK has eight terminals, and Newark has three terminals (soon four). It wouldn't be possible to serve all terminals with a direct subway/commuter rail link, unless you built a station under every terminal, which wouldn't make much sense in terms of expense or convenience.

Maybe not to build eight stations at an airport, but extending the PATH with three new stations (one under each terminal) would certainly make sense.

Then, on the other end, only a tiny percentage of travelers will have their hotels/destinations at the end point of the subway/commuter rail line in the central city. So you have to transfer anyways (to another rail line or taxi, whatever) to get to your final destination.

Yes, but the current setup just adds an ADDITIONAL transfer as compared to if PATH went straight into the city from the airport. So right now you might have two transfers instead of one if PATH went into the airport, or three transfers instead of two. I've travelled a lot, and especially when you have lots of luggage, transfers suck. So you want as few as possible. A one-seat ride into the city core is the only idea.

The PATH extension to Newark Airport, BTW, wouldn't actually go to the terminals. It would stop at the current consoldated rail terminal, where you take NJ Transit or Amtrak trains into Manhattan.

Yes, I know. So it will still force a needless transfer on everyone.

[BStyles]

NJ Transit, whose passengers are connecting to EWR, are required to keep their tickets so that they can board the monorail that serves the terminals at the airport; a program that will probably be implemented on the PATH once the connection is complete. There is no extra cost or any needless transfer, and a PATH connection basically doubles what the monorail already does. There is no need to connect the PATH further than the NJ Transit EWR station, because it is a commuter line, not an airport shuttle.

Both NJ Transit and PATH serve the same areas within the city, at Midtown. Personnel with luggage are smart enough to take the NJ Transit to the ADA-Compliant Penn Station rather than making it a hassle to travel directly into Lower Manhattan or Midtown on the PATH, especially with luggage, and there will always be a necessity to walk or make multiple transfers to your final destination in a heavily populated area. That's just the unavoidable fact of commuting.

[meh_cd]

Originally Posted by BStyles

there will always be a necessity to walk or make multiple transfers to your final destination in a heavily populated area. That's just the unavoidable fact of commuting.

Chicago begs to differ, but whatever; that isn't the purpose of this thread. The situation there isn't complicated by the MTA, NJ Transit, the Port Authority, etc. I just wish NYC had a system as simple and easy as Chicago. Perhaps some day.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by meh_cd

Chicago begs to differ, but whatever; that isn't the purpose of this thread. The situation there isn't complicated by the MTA, NJ Transit, the Port Authority, etc. I just wish NYC had a system as simple and easy as Chicago. Perhaps some day.

I agree that the situation varies by locale, and is complicated by the multiple agencies, but I'm not getting the "simple and easy".

Again, there is no such thing as a "one seat ride" for most passengers in any major city. Really only smaller cities could really entertain such a notion, so you could do it in Indianapolis (for example) for downtown-bound passengers, but could never do it in a larger city (just based on the geographic size of the core, and variety of destinations within the core).

Even in Chicago, which has its downtown attractions in a fairly concentrated boundary, the Blue line from O'Hare isn't serving even 5% of the hotels. The vast majority of hotels are on and around Michigan Ave., and not near any rail station, to say nothing of the Blue Line. You would need at least one train transfer, and then a fairly lengthy walk, or you would need to hail a cab once downtown.

[ardecila]

Not to mention that the Blue Line is a local train taking 45 minutes from O'Hare to Clark/Lake, subject to severe crowding during rush periods and the typical service disruptions of a subway/metro line. I'm glad we have it, but it's not on a par with airport express services in Europe and Asia.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the Newark setup, though. Extending PATH to the NJT airport station is a no-brainer, but it doesn't need to go any further. This gives the airport direct service to Midtown via NJT/Penn and Downtown via PATH. Key to making this concept viable, though, is that the transfer station needs to be a pleasant place. It can't be a frigid, wet, exposed slab of concrete surrounded by parking lots and industrial parks. (Thinking of BWI here.) The stations that do this right present a spacious, enclosed trainshed and easy navigation between platforms. The Miami Intermodal Station is probably the best US example, although they're not dealing with winter weather.

[woodrow]

Hey - somebody wake me when this thread gets back on topic. You know, the development of the WTC Memorial & Transit Hub. Pics, timelines, rumors....