Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I think the Quebecers on this thread are really overestimating their province's economic potential in the event of separation.

A lot of Quebec's economy comes from providing services to the ROC. Big names like Alimentations Couche Tard, Metro, Saputo, Power Corp etc. probably derive the majority of their business within Canada but outside Quebec. One of the reasons why Quebec has such low unemployment is because they're providing services to English Canada, which has high immigration and population growth, without growing much themselves.

Then there's the fact that Quebec doesn't really export any resources that can't be found elsewhere. There's no potash or cobalt or palladium, or even oil and gas.

Also, I don't see any reason for the US to play nice with Quebec on USMCA. I don't think they'd appreciate the loss of stability on their doorstep, and when it comes to supporting the ROC vs. Quebec's negotiators, I'm pretty sure they'll side with the ROC.

And, finally, there's the issue of currency. Do they want to keep using a CAD where they don't control the central bank, and whose value reflects the economic status of the ROC?

In a nutshell, I see Quebec having the trade bloc leverage of Britain post-Brexit and having the export competitiveness of one of the Eurozone PIGS.

Not sure about the ROC in general but certainly Ontario depends hugely on trade with Quebec. I think I might have more stuff in my house that comes from Ontario (either made there or transited through there) than I do from Quebec. And I don't think that is just because I live in Gatineau. Even if I lived in Quebec City everything from my toothpaste to my Corn Flakes to my plastic patio chairs to my large-screen TV would have had someone in Ontario profiting from it at some point.

John A Macdonald and friends envisioned Ontario as the great supplier of everything for everyone in Canada, and to some degree that's exactly what happened.

My earlier post about Quebec's trade deficit with Ontario would tend to confirm this.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

FWIW I think Quebec politics would go one of two ways, and one way resembles Latin America (populist politics animated by vague cultural arguments, anti-Americanism, etc.) while the other where they play along with the USA wouldn't allow for a lot of autonomy.
.

I think the way Quebec separatists see it is the US wouldn't be at all interested in having a say on internal matters in Quebec, whereas at the moment we have to negotiate and compromise on almost everything with the ROC which dominates when it comes to our international image and relations (so how much change from having 20-25% influence of a medium power to 100% influence as a smaller power?) and also likes to stick its nose in and wave its finger at even the most granular internal goings on in Quebec.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

A good example of how there's potential demand along many smaller parts of that corridor that can't really take advantage of either the VIA service or intercity bus service.

Right now you can take VIA from Moncton to Sackville but it costs $23, takes 45 mins instead of 30 mins driving, and it has to be around 1 pm on certain days of the week.

We've had discussions before about commuter rail in Halifax (I think it's a travesty they are dragging their heels so much down there over this).

In some ways, there is the potential for limited commuter rail in Moncton too. A limited morning and evening service to Sackville for university students would be a no brainer. There is also a disused and partially abandoned rail line to Shediac too which could be reactivated (for regular commuters). Even Salisbury and Petitcodiac could get into the action.

The VIA station in Moncton is downtown, and would lend itself well to a commuter rail service.

Of course, this will never happen....................

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think the way Quebec separatists see it is the US wouldn't be at all interested in having a say on internal matters in Quebec, whereas at the moment we have to negotiate and compromise on almost everything with the ROC which dominates when it comes to our international image and relations (so how much change from having 20-25% influence of a medium power to 100% influence as a smaller power?) and also likes to stick its nose in and wave its finger at even the most granular internal goings on in Quebec.

What are the compromises though? People make a lot of noise about wedge issues like the religious symbols but as far as I know that went how the Quebec government wanted it to go, not how the Toronto Star wanted it (while most Canadians probably don't care). I'm not sure these petty debates could get more Canadian, with people passive-aggressively insulting each other while in the end Quebec can just invoke the notwithstanding clause but doesn't need to, it's all about nothing, the PM who says it is terrible is also from Quebec, etc.

International relations are not internal to Quebec and would not be independent of the USA. Canada is an American vassal and is already borderline size-wise on the international stage. Quebec would be able to live along the Quebec-Venezuela axis there depending on how much non-trivial independence (e.g. not just a different colour flag) people want.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is a one time exemption to my embargo on this thread

There'll be many more exemptions I surmise.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another view among some Acadiens is that naming their university for Monc(k)ton is indirectly a very fitting middle finger (pied-de-nez as we say in French) towards someone who played a big role in the attempted eradication of the Acadien people.

In terms of a potential new name, I am hearing "Université de la Nouvelle-Acadie".

Université de la Nouvelle-France ?

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Université de la Nouvelle-France ?

L'Acadie ≠ la Nouvelle-France

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I wonder if Prince William ever gets any flak over branding. I would think an Englishman would want to distance himself from any perceived links to that Norman William the Conqueror guy. I mean... it was only 1000 years ago. Too soon for some Anglo-Saxons, I'd wager.

William is a German name (Wilhelm), and Prince William is essentially a German prince anyway. His Normand ancestry is minuscule.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The new world vs the old world debate is often caught up in comparisons that make it seem like European locales were all founded 5000 years ago and that everywhere on this side of the pond came into being in 1922 or something.

Of course many places in Europe are a lot older than any place here, but there a lot of cities and towns in Northern Europe in particular were only founded and settled well into the 1000s.

I some cases they're not really significantly older than the oldest places in Canada.

And on the timeline starting from when homo sapiens first emerged (maybe 50,000 years ago), "civilization" is a fairly recent thing, maybe representing very roughly the most recent 10% of our existence as a species.

Can someone from Amsterdam really say that Quebec City is a mere young pup compared to their hometown?

What's amusing is that my "Old Stock Canadien" side of the family has been Canadien for quite a bit longer than my "Old Stock French" side of the family has been French (merely 162 years at the moment, turning to 163 in a couple weeks).

That's quite young. I have a picture of my grandpa as a kid plus his father and grandfather (all three generations are in the pic), my grandpa was old enough to speak to his grandpa at the time of that pic, and that person (his grandpa) was born when the place wasn't France yet, and was old enough to speak and think (10 years old) while living in the place when it wasn't France yet.

So, my grandpa, who I exchanged a lot with, had earlier in his life, personally had interactions with people who were of the age of reason back when the area he (and they) grew up in wasn't France yet.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've mentioned before on here (even though no one seems to have paid attention) that even as a francophone hors-Québec (FHQ) who could easily "fit in", a number of things took some getting used to when I moved to Quebec. It was even harder for my wife (also an FHQ) and for a number of years she really wanted to move back to the ROC because of it.

Such as what for instance?

[begratto]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I think the Quebecers on this thread are really overestimating their province's economic potential in the event of separation.

A lot of Quebec's economy comes from providing services to the ROC. Big names like Alimentations Couche Tard, Metro, Saputo, Power Corp etc. probably derive the majority of their business within Canada but outside Quebec. One of the reasons why Quebec has such low unemployment is because they're providing services to English Canada, which has high immigration and population growth, without growing much themselves.

Borders are pretty much irrelevant in business. For example, Alimentation Couche-Tard / Circle K / Mac's already has way more stores outside of Canada than in Canada. Borders don't prevent them from operating in Poland, Norway, etc. I don't see what how that would change if Quebec was idependant.

[lio45]

P.S. Glad to see someone123's alive

[lio45]

Originally Posted by harls

Acajack green dot.. increases.

Can't let Coldrsx continue to have the top spot!

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

William is a German name (Wilhelm), and Prince William is essentially a German prince anyway. His Normand ancestry is minuscule.

How dare you inject facts into a pre-existing, emotionally-charged exchange! I am triggered!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

P.S. Glad to see someone123's alive

I was in Maple Creek for a while.

Of course it's my luck that it was snowing in the hills around Maple Creek for the first time in decades!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vanatox

L'Acadie ≠ la Nouvelle-France

Acadie was part of Nouvelle-France, though sure to most people the heartland and "true" Nouvelle-France was the St Lawrence River valley. Though that part of New France was in fact called... Canada.

Definitely agree it's not the right name for this university. It would be like renaming some university in Arizona or El Salvador "University of New Spain". (Whereas everyone mostly thinks of Mexico when they think of New Spain.)

[Nashe]

Gonna be hard to make everyone happy. Put it to public vote.

"University McUniversityface", I'm thinking.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

I was in Maple Creek for a while.

Of course it's my luck that it was snowing in the hills around Maple Creek for the first time in decades!

This year is going down into the history books as completely unreal for snow: they got some in places like Maple Creek and low-elevation Southern California!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Gonna be hard to make everyone happy. Put it to public vote.

"University McUniversityface", I'm thinking.

If it was in provincial France, you would end up with a stupid name such as "Université CapAvenir", or even worse, a stupid English name such as "Moncton School of Economics" or "NBedge" (all real-life examples, see https://www.tse-fr.eu/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KEDGE_Business_School ).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

If it was in provincial France, you would end up with a stupid name such as "Université CapAvenir",

Impossible - the main hockey arena in Moncton is already called the Centre Avenir Centre.