Winnipeg | Downtown | Hudson’s Bay Building | Wehwehneh Bahgahkinahgohn | U/C

[Rutlander]

Great comments, CoryB. I think this project is a huge step forward for Winnipeg in so many ways, and it's heartening to see the many insightful comments here in support.

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by trueviking

https://twitter.com/brent_bellamy/status/1517669358755061767?s=21&t=gJndq1136iRKmOGrhUZ50g

Two levels below the Zellers.

The basement below the basement. Sounds like a Guy Maddin concept.

[Danny D Oh]

I'm interested to see where funding/financing comes from when there are firm plans.

$130 million is nothing. Keep in mind the Portage Place proposal for a much less complicated and modern building was $400 million, and even that was probably light, plus pre the mass inflation in construction costs, supply and labour shortage.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I'm interested to see where funding/financing comes from when there are firm plans.

$130 million is nothing. Keep in mind the Portage Place proposal for a much less complicated and modern building was $400 million, and even that was probably light, plus pre the mass inflation in construction costs, supply and labour shortage.

Portage Place concept was DEFINITELY not much less complicated, are you serious? The Bay is a block-size square building requiring no facade changes, the elements of Portage Ave-facing overhaul on Portage place, the major structural alterations proposed, plus the two towers added made it a 5+ year project with huge disruptions to traffic and businesses around it.

[cllew]

I'm wondering on what sort of restrictions if any are going to be placed on the contractors doing the work in the building?

Is the GC going to have to be Indigenous owned, are there going to be hiring indigenous hiring quotas for the sub-trades?

I don't have a problem if the SCO went this way as a large project like this could be a good training ground for band members to get into the building trades.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Portage Place concept was DEFINITELY not much less complicated, are you serious? The Bay is a block-size square building requiring no facade changes, the elements of Portage Ave-facing overhaul on Portage place, the major structural alterations proposed, plus the two towers added made it a 5+ year project with huge disruptions to traffic and businesses around it.

No facade changes but presumably opening the entire building up as not many commercial or residential renters are going to want to exist in a place with no natural light, even if it's supportive housing.

Looking at about $200,000 per to develop each housing unit and at that most of the money announced is gone.

That money will go fast.

[trueviking]

I think that $400m number for Portage Place was based on trying to convince the government to give them lots of money.

$200k per suite is less than half of the $130m. Residential takes 4 of the 6 floors.

[trueviking]

Also. It’s not supportive housing. It’s just somewhat more affordable rent. Like the U of W projects.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Also. It’s not supportive housing. It’s just somewhat more affordable rent. Like the U of W projects.

would love to see some live in art studio spaces created for internships could be partnered with wag in some capacity?

[Labroco]

The bigger the atrium the less square footage which needs to be developed. A 20,000ft atrium brings the project size down to 500,000 +/-. Still huge.

The residential component really needs to be completed first as the other spaces could follow when more funds are found.

I would like to see the main entrance on Graham to funnel pedestrian traffic onto that street.

My concern is the budget seems tight. Thank goodness they don’t need to pour too much concrete.

[trueviking]

^ good take. Agreed.

[The Jabroni]

A couple days behind on this, but after reading up and going over this big project, I wish it all the best!

This is quite frankly, exciting! It's such a poetic way to repurpose the building and the land it sits on.

[biguc]

Are the residential units going to have mezzanines?

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by CoryB

When True North was essentially handed the "old unwanted" Eaton's building as a place to build a new arena, with significant site constraints, there weren't all these negative comments.

You don't remember Save the Eaton's coalition? There were people literally crying their eyes out over losing Eaton's building.

Then with the proposal. "15,000 seats is too small", "for an AHL team", etc. There was tons of backlash.

[esquire]

Eaton's was a bit of a different story. Osmington (i.e. David Thomson) bought the building right off the bat when Eaton's closed in 1999 so it was never left in the lurch the way The Bay was with an owner itching to get rid of it.

Also, expectations were probably a bit lower given the building's massive size (nearly 900,000 sf) and the relatively poor state of downtown Winnipeg at the time. In 1999 downtown was just starting to pull out of a decade-long slump that bottomed out a couple years earlier. For whatever reason, the popular perception was that Eaton's was considered too old and unsalvageable due to its wood frame, although it's not clear what made it any different from many different timber-framed Exchange District warehouses other than sheer size. But that said, I think most people were just grateful to have some plan in place for the site, because the fear was that the building was going to sit there empty and boarded up for years like the Met across the street.

That said, the Save Eaton's Coalition pushed the matter all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, so the building didn't exactly go down without a fight.

For what it's worth, the building that replaced Eaton's is one of the biggest downtown success stories in recent years.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by biguc

Are the residential units going to have mezzanines?

we are trying. The floor to floor heights are not quite high enough but looking for a creative way to do it.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

You don't remember Save the Eaton's coalition? There were people literally crying their eyes out over losing Eaton's building.

Then with the proposal. "15,000 seats is too small", "for an AHL team", etc. There was tons of backlash.

One of many development protests over the years. I remember one group claiming a downtown arena would make women less safe because of the resulting "rape gangs" of hormone-inflamed hockey fans prowling the downtown area.

There were also protests against the Forks being developed. One group claimed the construction of the boat basin would destroy the pristine waters of the Assiniboine River with all the oil & gas being seeped from the hundreds of recreational boats docking there.

I suppose you have to admire the creativity of some people....

[esquire]

The more I think about this project, the more I am impressed that Southern Chiefs Organization is stepping up to take the lead in fixing a problem (i.e. a giant vacant downtown building) that they had nothing to do with creating.

Even though I find it hard not to feel let down by what has transpired, SCO is being a huge good guy in all of this and if nothing else, I hope that they are able to attain their organization's goals through this project.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by esquire

For what it's worth, the building that replaced Eaton's is one of the biggest downtown success stories in recent years.

in the country honestly not allot of projects come together like it did and engaged this city in a way it hasnt been in a very long time i dont think very many cities experience an event like what eatons demolition created.

i can remember beer and skits 2002 as it revolved around the eatons building and rocky horor picture show. one scene was grannies beating up the calendar boys from the wfps (actual calendrer boys) to stop the demolition of eatons.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

The more I think about this project, the more I am impressed that Southern Chiefs Organization is stepping up to take the lead in fixing a problem (i.e. a giant vacant downtown building) that they had nothing to do with creating.

Even though I find it hard not to feel let down by what has transpired, SCO is being a huge good guy in all of this and if nothing else, I hope that they are able to attain their organization's goals through this project.

I’m curious what a better outcome might have been?