Vancouver Civic Election 2022

[cov]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Those companies moved to more lucrative (for them) suburbs that offered more incentives to locate there. Plus, there’s plenty more there than just tech.

That's fascinating. can you just name some of the specific policies san Fransisco suburbs implemented to encourage businesses to move there? Since you have business interests there and all you probably know it better than me.

[GenWhy?]

I don't think incentives to business to locate to a city with a lack of office vacancy would work or is a good idea. The largest pressing issue in Van in my field is housing affordability. Architects, engineers, designers, etc leaving to buy homes.

[s211]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I might be looking at old data, but I thought recently Vancouver had both the lowest commercial and residential property taxes rates of the largest population centres in Canada and wasn't there a major tax break in 2020?

Lowest property tax rates perhaps (I've not seen the data), but keep in mind that the supposed low rate is being applied to what are likely the highest assessed values in Canada.

Low rate x high assessment = what you should be comparing to other cities.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by cov

That's fascinating. can you just name some of the specific policies san Fransisco suburbs implemented to encourage businesses to move there? Since you have business interests there and all you probably know it better than me.

Well there’s the rezoning of huge swaths of land at an extremely rapid rate that allowed developers to develop land on the cheap. Short term
Bonds were issued to help out with the cause in some areas. Secondly the business tax rate in the areas south of San Fran were kept at a fraction of what they were in San Fran proper to attract and keep business there. (This situation has now changed, but the “damage”’was already done and the area is still going strong despite the move out of some tech companies to urban centres like our own here). On a side note, in our own backyard, the City of Burnaby tried the same thing on a smaller scale, and achieved alright results.

[cov]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Well there’s the rezoning of huge swaths of land at an extremely rapid rate that allowed developers to develop land on the cheap. Short term
Bonds were issued to help out with the cause in some areas. Secondly the business tax rate in the areas south of San Fran were kept at a fraction of what they were in San Fran proper to attract and keep business there. (This situation has now changed, but the “damage”’was already done and the area is still going strong despite the move out of some tech companies to urban centres like our own here). On a side note, in our own backyard, the City of Burnaby tried the same thing on a smaller scale, and achieved alright results.

Wow. I didn't know that. What is the business tax rate charged by Vancouver? Is it much higher than San Francisco?

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Council's voting record would disagree. Looks like Kirby-Yung's a fence-sitter, and Hardwick's a reactionary (going from other charts, she also has the most declared conflicts of interest).

If there's a stacked deck, it's in favour of parties over independents; if somebody from Southlands were to join the Greens' council ticket, they'd be elected on sight. Some local non-partisan interests may very well be drowned out by lack of local reps - would very much like some examples, if so - but I'd argue that mostly everybody has a say otherwise.

Having a hard time seeing Chinatown as a "jewel," even pre-decline - the grocers barely even clean their own stores, let alone the streets. IMO gentrification (new buildings, hipster pizza and ramen, etc etc) is the only force stopping everything in the neighbourhood that isn't Phnom Penh from turning into a slum.

Which is why we're building more and more offices to try and close the gap. Low vacancy means high business demand and high vacancy means low demand; if Calgary were so attractive, they wouldn't have more than 20% in the first place.

Thanks for the link but that’s literally one issue. There’s many issues not to mention some of the moronic motions that some put forward. Gotta take that look with a broader lens than that.

Maybe you don’t see it, but others do. Chinatown was always a little gruff around the edges. That was the appeal. New buildings with Hipster pizza joints, ramen noodle? No thanks we have plenty of those and would make that area just as bland as the others. But I agree that the area could use a clean up. But the character needs to stay. I am really encouraged by some of the recent restaurant openings down there. That could be a major draw to that area as it once was decades ago. A walk through Chinatown in the 60’s for example was a feast for the senses. Now a walk down there might get you a needle in the shoe.

But Calgary hasn’t always had it at 20%. It’s cyclical. Demand curves keeps landlords honest and is encouraging for business growth. They will rebound. It may take some time, but they will rebound. We on the other hand have always (in recent times) been behind the growth curve by keeping demand artificially low. Then we charge Manhattanesque rental rates when we have no business doing that. Ditto for other commercial areas. We try to force all economic activity in a predetermined area then are surprised why rents skyrocket in that area. Robson and the Granville entertainment district were city initiatives that have had a negative effect on new entrants in the area. If I’m a medium to large company and I’m looking to open an office space in Western Canada am I going to Calgary where space options are almost limitless and landlords will be literally throwing money at me, or am I going to Vancouver where I can be spread out over 3 buildings because someone at city hall doesn’t like “imposing” large buildings, and I get the privilege of paying almost the same rent that I would in New York? Y that’s a quick decision. Bike rides around the sea wall can only take you so far.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by cov

Wow. I didn't know that. What is the business tax rate charged by Vancouver? Is it much higher than San Francisco?

I have no idea what the rate there is. I don’t keep an up to date running tally. I’m sure it can be found somewhere online

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by s211

Lowest property tax rates perhaps (I've not seen the data), but keep in mind that the supposed low rate is being applied to what are likely the highest assessed values in Canada.

Low rate x high assessment = what you should be comparing to other cities.

I’m glad you caught that. People have trouble making the distinction. And that’s a common spin move the city uses for their endless tax increases

[Vin]

Originally Posted by cov

are you eastvanmark? I seriously doubt he wants Vancouver to turn out like Tokyo or Singapore.

I bet you've never ever stepped foot on Tokyo or Singapore.

[cov]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I have no idea what the rate there is. I don’t keep an up to date running tally. I’m sure it can be found somewhere online

I tried looking it up on Vancouver but couldn't find any municipal business tax I'm just really bad with google sometimes. What's the business tax rate like in SF? I really wanna know just so that when I do find out what the rate in Vancouver is I can have something to compare ii to.

[cov]

Originally Posted by Vin

I bet you've never ever stepped foot on Tokyo or Singapore.

eastvanmark's ideal well-run cities are SF and Seattle. It's rude to speak on other people's behalf, especially when their ideas are polar opposites of your own.

Have I been to these cities? you will never know

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by cov

I tried looking it up on Vancouver but couldn't find any municipal business tax on businesses What's the business tax rate like in the bay area?

Here's Vancouver. It's a total of 0.99% of the assessed value.
San Francisco is higher. And businesses pay a significant tax on any property sale or transfer there too.

[cov]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Here's Vancouver. It's a total of 0.99% of the assessed value.
San Francisco is higher. And businesses pay a significant tax on any property sale or transfer there too.

property taxes are basically are negligible expenses for fortune 500 businesses that pay their engineers 300k-500k USD in salaries alone tho. The total expense per employee is probably closer to a 800k-1 mil. When eastvanmark said business taxes did he mean property taxes? As in firms like uber and palantir are willing to open offices here for a 100k deduction in property tax expense?

I don't think what's what eastvanmark is talking about. Because SF not only has higher commercial property taxes, it also has an additional lease tax on top charged solely to the leasee.

The Property Tax Rate for the City and County of San Francisco is currently set at 1.1801% of the assessed value for 2019-20. The assessed value is initially set at the purchase price.

1% on the amounts a business receives from the lease or sublease of warehouse space in the City

3.5% on the amounts a business receives from the lease or sublease of other commercial spaces in the City.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I’m glad you caught that. People have trouble making the distinction. And that’s a common spin move the city uses for their endless tax increases

I think 2020 rate for bus. tax was the lowest I've seen as far back as the City record has up, and 2022 is about the same as 2018

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's Council's voting record in 2019. Since then, as featheredfriend has comprehensively recorded, Councillor Hardwick's record on voting has become far more negative to almost any type of development. She's voted 'yes' to 2,714 units of housing, and 'no' to 6,213 - including condos, rentals and social housing. She also voted against a hotel, and some office space. Sarah Kirby-Young voted almost 100% yes - to 10,256 units, (and no to just 24).

I believe I called Kirby-Yung a moderate, not a reactionary. She has taken a fairly NIMBY line against some more conspicuous items like 2538 Birch.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Thanks for the link but that’s literally one issue. There’s many issues not to mention some of the moronic motions that some put forward. Gotta take that look with a broader lens than that.

Maybe you don’t see it, but others do. Chinatown was always a little gruff around the edges. That was the appeal. New buildings with Hipster pizza joints, ramen noodle? No thanks we have plenty of those and would make that area just as bland as the others. But I agree that the area could use a clean up. But the character needs to stay. I am really encouraged by some of the recent restaurant openings down there. That could be a major draw to that area as it once was decades ago. A walk through Chinatown in the 60’s for example was a feast for the senses. Now a walk down there might get you a needle in the shoe.

But Calgary hasn’t always had it at 20%. It’s cyclical. Demand curves keeps landlords honest and is encouraging for business growth. They will rebound. It may take some time, but they will rebound. We on the other hand have always (in recent times) been behind the growth curve by keeping demand artificially low. Then we charge Manhattanesque rental rates when we have no business doing that. Ditto for other commercial areas. We try to force all economic activity in a predetermined area then are surprised why rents skyrocket in that area. Robson and the Granville entertainment district were city initiatives that have had a negative effect on new entrants in the area. If I’m a medium to large company and I’m looking to open an office space in Western Canada am I going to Calgary where space options are almost limitless and landlords will be literally throwing money at me, or am I going to Vancouver where I can be spread out over 3 buildings because someone at city hall doesn’t like “imposing” large buildings, and I get the privilege of paying almost the same rent that I would in New York? Y that’s a quick decision. Bike rides around the sea wall can only take you so far.

Fair enough, so here's another one showing total votes since 2020.
Note Hardwick's giant "abstain" pile, which is when you don't want to vote Yes but really don't want a No on the record. There's really no graph that shows her as a moderate; she's been even against the recent sixplex rezonings.

Chinatown's character and filth appear to be one and the same in Vancouver's case, especially right now; most of the newer openings are for upscale or artisanal venues, not local/traditional ones, and in modern developments and renovations. Like it or not, the options seem to have narrowed down to "adapt" or "perish."

Yeah, Calgary hasn't always had it at 20% - now they have it at over 30%. That's its sixth year in a slump. Attractive cities don't have boom-bust cycles to begin with, because there's always somebody waiting to fill the vacuum... evidence would indicate that all the tax breaks in the world can't overcome the fact that they'd have to live in Calgary. Same reason you wouldn't buy a dirt-cheap mansion in Cleveland.

Vancouver's problem is a supply one, not demand - we stopped building office towers for a few years sometime during the Robertson administration, and now we're trying to catch up. If 5.7 million square feet under construction and 6.7 million in the pipeline (a ninefold increase over current available space) doesn't increase the vacancy rate, nothing will.
I'll concede that the lack of big floorplates is a problem. That's probably why we're building The Post and Main Alley Campus, among others.

[rofina]

@cov

You seem quite happy with status quo.

What in your view, is a list of things that Vancouver gets right that should be better known and proud of?

[Feathered Friend]

The Coalition of Progressive Electors has announced a round of possible candidates for the Vancouver municipal election in October.

Article content
COPE’s nomination meeting takes place April 10.

According to a COPE news release, the following candidates are seeking nomination:

City council:

• Breen Ouellette, a Métis man, activist and lawyer.

•Jean Swanson, (incumbent,) an anti-poverty and social justice activist elected to council in 2018.

• Nancy Trigueros, a civil rights activist and former Canadian immigration consultant representing refugees.

https://vancouversun.com/news/cope-candidates

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by cov

property taxes are basically are negligible expenses for fortune 500 businesses that pay their engineers 300k-500k USD in salaries alone tho. The total expense per employee is probably closer to a 800k-1 mil. When eastvanmark said business taxes did he mean property taxes? As in firms like uber and palantir are willing to open offices here for a 100k deduction in property tax expense?

I don't think what's what eastvanmark is talking about. Because SF not only has higher commercial property taxes, it also has an additional lease tax on top charged solely to the leasee.

As this thread is about the Civic Election, and as eastvanmark was referencing taxes, I assumed he was talking about the taxes that are (mostly) determined by the elected councillors. There's nothing City Council can do about any other taxes that the Province or federal government chose to charge businesses.

[GenWhy?]

I see Breen, after being unable to de-throne the absentee Liberal in the West End for 2 elections, is cutting his teeth as a councilor. Probably a better and more effective way to make changes, but he won't win again. Not sure what is game plan is.

[cov]

Originally Posted by rofina

@cov

You seem quite happy with status quo.

how so? what have I said to make you think this? I was just having a conversation with @eastvanmark who seems very knowledgeable about successful city policies, and have business connections and experience to SF, a city that I also am quite fond of.