Highways in Canada

[FrAnKs]

Despite the fact that Québec's road signage is only in French, I think we did a nice job by adding alot of pictograms on them. I think this is helping out many people.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

BC seems to have standardized signage nowadays for provincial highways, but I can tell they didn't have much in the way of standards in the past. Older signs have no fewer than 3 different fonts: Helvetica (still used for numerical route shields), FWHA, and a font unique to BC that looks almost hand-painted but still pops up on some newer signs.

BC's signs always stood out to me for their Helvetica use... it's not something you often see on road signs.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by esquire

They had the scratch to build a pretty damn nice expressway network relative to population, so in that sense they're already winning. I'd happily trade Manitoba's generally MUTCD-compliant signage for a few kms of NL expressway!

I'm not sure what was the original reason for building them: make work project, economic booster, or a rare case of government forethought. Given the geography of St. John's, without them it would be nightmare getting across town.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Despite the fact that Québec's road signage is only in French, I think we did a nice job by adding alot of pictograms on them. I think this is helping out many people.

If we're allowed to say it on SSP (), Quebec has the most "European" or "international" approach to highway signage in North America.

As you say, the use of pictograms for almost everything (and they continue to replace any remaining words with pictograms when possible) probably makes it the place in North America that's the easiest to drive in if you don't speak the local language.

Pretty soon only proper nouns (Chemin du Lac-Vert, Manoir des Érables) and maybe cardinal directions (EST-OUEST-NORD-SUD) will be close to the only things not pictogrammed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

You already know we don't.

The capitalized BAY BULLS one I've actually noticed before this conversation.

The other one that's annoyed me is along Pitts Memorial Drive there are two signs with the same designation but different formatting:

St. John's (Downtown)

And:

St. John's (downtown)

Other than that, I've not really noticed anything unusual with our signs. Just used to it, I suppose.

I wonder if signage in Newfoundland is so "loose" due the near-total absence of through traffic and even drivers from far-off places in general.

In many other places, the question of how people from other provinces, states and countries is probably more top of mind for engineers that are responsible for signage and wayfinding.

I have noticed in my travels that islands often have more eccentric and quirky road signage.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If we're allowed to say it on SSP (), Quebec has the most "European" or "international" approach to highway signage in North America.

As you say, the use of pictograms for almost everything (and they continue to replace any remaining words with pictograms when possible) probably makes it the place in North America that's the easiest to drive in if you don't speak the local language.

Pretty soon only proper nouns (Chemin du Lac-Vert, Manoir des Érables) and maybe cardinal directions (EST-OUEST-NORD-SUD) will be close to the only things not pictogrammed.

That's true! Unfortunately, these signs are not always well maintained or well placed and of course, the roads are often in poor condition. So, where we win many points for our road signage, we are also losing many on road maintenance on the other hand...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder if signage in Newfoundland is so "loose" due the near-total absence of through traffic and even drivers from far-off places in general.

In many other places, the question of how people from other provinces, states and countries is probably more top of mind for engineers that are responsible for signage and wayfinding.

I have noticed in my travels that islands often have more eccentric and quirky road signage.

That's a good point. I have heard people complain about the general lack of directional signage on Manitoba highways... there is some on the TCH but very little apart from that, including in Winnipeg. It's like the signs are based on the assumption that you're from here, you know your way around and you know where you're going. Could be a similar mentality in NL, which is very different from a place like, say, California or Florida where there are piles of drivers from elsewhere, with roads signed accordingly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

That's true! Unfortunately, these signs are not always well maintained or well placed and of course, the roads are often in poor condition. So, where we win many points for our road signage, we are also losing many on road maintenance on the other hand...

Oh yes. Road maintenance is another matter altogether. Though it's gotten a lot better in Quebec in the past 5-10 years.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If we're allowed to say it on SSP ()

Careful with the controversial statements

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder if signage in Newfoundland is so "loose" due the near-total absence of through traffic and even drivers from far-off places in general.

In many other places, the question of how people from other provinces, states and countries is probably more top of mind for engineers that are responsible for signage and wayfinding.

I have noticed in my travels that islands often have more eccentric and quirky road signage.

I think that's part of it. NL also doesn't have a complex highway system, you rarely have to change highways multiple times to get some where. Maybe once, from the TCH to a branch highway.

There's a single major East-West Highway (TCH) on the island, and it runs through the majority of the population centres (Corner Brook, Deer Lake, Grand Falls, Gander, Clarenville, and St. John's). Take a look at the TCH on a map, and you'll see meandering through the middle of the island, attempting to reach as many communities as possible.

The branch highways follow similar logic, connecting as many communities as possible rather then direct routes to larger centres.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I think that's part of it. NL also doesn't have a complex highway system, you rarely have to change highways multiple times to get some where. Maybe once, from the TCH to a branch highway.

There's a single major East-West Highway (TCH) on the island, and it runs through the majority of the population centres (Corner Brook, Deer Lake, Grand Falls, Gander, Clarenville, and St. John's). Take a look at the TCH on a map, and you'll see meandering through the middle of the island, attempting to reach as many communities as possible.

The branch highways follow similar logic, connecting as many communities as possible rather then direct routes to larger centres.

I had never noticed how big Newfoundland is.
I made a quick test with google and it might take you 12 hours (without counting rest stops) to drive from Trepassey, Avalon peninsula, to St. Anthony.
Wow! Newfoundland is a world itself...

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I had never noticed how big Newfoundland is.
I made a quick test with google and it might take you 12 hours (without counting rest stops) to drive from Trepassey, Avalon peninsula, to St. Anthony.
Wow! Newfoundland is a world itself...

TCH there is also 903 km long, longer than TCH in B.C. (though of course Ontario beats the record there).

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by esquire

BC's signs always stood out to me for their Helvetica use... it's not something you often see on road signs.

If I recall correctly, New Brunswick also uses Helvetica on some highway shields.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I think that's part of it. NL also doesn't have a complex highway system, you rarely have to change highways multiple times to get some where. Maybe once, from the TCH to a branch highway.

There's a single major East-West Highway (TCH) on the island, and it runs through the majority of the population centres (Corner Brook, Deer Lake, Grand Falls, Gander, Clarenville, and St. John's). Take a look at the TCH on a map, and you'll see meandering through the middle of the island, attempting to reach as many communities as possible.

The branch highways follow similar logic, connecting as many communities as possible rather then direct routes to larger centres.

Now that you mention it, I completely see this.

There is literally just the TCH as the main highway and a bunch of much smaller routes off it. All the communities off the main highway are tiny little places.

I guess the TCH follows the old railway or thereabouts.

Most other provinces have some nominal alternate to the most major highway.

The signage is unusual in the sense of it not completely adhering to North American standards, but I don't find it that out of place. I get the gist of things and the highways aren't complex/big enough that I worry about being completely on the wrong side of where I need to be for an exit.

If this signage was on the 401 or something, yeah, I'd be a little more concerned.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I think that's part of it. NL also doesn't have a complex highway system, you rarely have to change highways multiple times to get some where. Maybe once, from the TCH to a branch highway.

There's a single major East-West Highway (TCH) on the island, and it runs through the majority of the population centres (Corner Brook, Deer Lake, Grand Falls, Gander, Clarenville, and St. John's). Take a look at the TCH on a map, and you'll see meandering through the middle of the island, attempting to reach as many communities as possible.

The branch highways follow similar logic, connecting as many communities as possible rather then direct routes to larger centres.

That kind of logic actually costs you about three hours of extra driving to cross the island, as opposed to a direct route.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Architype

That kind of logic actually costs you about three hours of extra driving to cross the island, as opposed to a direct route.

I'm curious about how much that actually matters versus the cost of building dedicated routes to each place.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm curious about how much that actually matters versus the cost of building dedicated routes to each place.

It would be supplemental to what already exists, sure at considerable cost, somewhat equivalent to the Coquihalla in BC. Likely it would be a better investment than large hydro dams or fixed links.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

That kind of logic actually costs you about three hours of extra driving to cross the island, as opposed to a direct route.

I am genuinely on side with this guy. I fucking hate driving across the island. I'd much rather just lounge on a ferry from St. John's to Halifax. It kills a day to get to the mainland already - minimum 9 hours from St. John's to Port aux Basques if you make absolutely no stops, if you arrive just in time to be the last car on the ferry and it leaves port as soon as your car is aboard, that's another minimum 7 hours. Now, North Sydney is nothing to see so let's assume your final destination is, at minimum, Halifax. That's another MINIMUM 4 hours.

So, add it all up, 20 hours minimum to get from St. John's to Halifax by car.

Ferry from St. John's to Halifax would clock in at just under 24 hours.

GIVE ME IT FFS. I would choose it every time. Even over flying - I LOVE ferries.

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[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Architype

It would be supplemental to what already exists, sure at considerable cost, somewhat equivalent to the Coquihalla in BC. Likely it would be a better investment than large hydro dams or fixed links.

"It'll be a slightly less terrible investment than the last hydro dam or fixed link idea" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

As much as shaving off a couple of hours drive for Port-aux-Basques or Corner Brook residents would be nice to them, it is likely not the thing that will finally give Newfoundland the economic shot in the arm it needs.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I am genuinely on side with this guy. I fucking hate driving across the island. I'd much rather just lounge on a ferry from St. John's to Halifax. It kills a day to get to the mainland already - minimum 9 hours from St. John's to Port aux Basques if you make absolutely no stops, if you arrive just in time to be the last car on the ferry and it leaves port as soon as your car is aboard, that's another minimum 7 hours. Now, North Sydney is nothing to see so let's assume your final destination is, at minimum, Halifax. That's another MINIMUM 4 hours.

So, add it all up, 20 hours minimum to get from St. John's to Halifax by car.

Ferry from St. John's to Halifax would clock in at just under 24 hours.

GIVE ME IT FFS. I would choose it every time. Even over flying - I LOVE ferries.

Man, if 3 hours is breaking you on a 20-24 hour trip, methinks you live in the wrong part of the world.

Airplanes man, airplanes.