How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City?

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Masks on vaccinated people are the new red MAGA hats, but for the different side...

Dang...really? Honestly, maybe I should start wearing my mask outdoors so I can get into arguments with people who are assuming I'm virtue signaling, only to ruin their day by being 3rd party. Honestly though, I think there is a connection to most people complaining about masks in the first place...they always have hated it and there's evidence on the forum of months and months of whining about it.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Masks on vaccinated people are the new red MAGA hats, but for the different side...

Or it could just be people being extra cautious, and they're giving themselves their own peace of mind. Perception is real, the truth isn't.

Humans are complicated animals.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by JManc

No. According to you, refusing virtue signal with a mask on outdoors is tantamount to telling kids going down with the Titanic they are fucked and are about to die in the worst way possible. Never mind that person without a mask could be fully vaccinated, let's feed into those irrational fears.

No, according to me you sound ridiculous and petulant, and feel this irrational anger at other people for doing something that in no way whatsoever affects you, and I'm having fun with it.

[sopas ej]

For those of you who haven't been working from home and have been going into work this whole time, have your employers been having to ask questions regarding your health, and temperature checks, before starting work, or entering the building? My employer opted out of the temperature checks, but per the County of Los Angeles health department, every day we each get asked the same damn questions and are supposed to answer yes or no (whether we've had a fever the last 14 days, whether we currently have a fever, whether we've come into contact with someone with COVID within the last 14 days, whether we know if we have COVID, shit like that). Now the LA County health department has added yet another question: "Are you fully vaccinated against COVID-19?" My boss wants everyone who is, to submit copies of their vaccination cards to put in their employee files, so that they can omit that question if you are indeed fully vaccinated.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Or it could just be people being extra cautious, and they're giving themselves their own peace of mind. Perception is real, the truth isn't.

Speeding up the downfall of "virtue signal" for those who use the "freedom of choice" to wear masks . All about the wording...

Humans are complicated animals.

Till we get to fight or flight, then there's only two choices.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

No, according to me you sound ridiculous and petulant, and feel this irrational anger at other people for doing something that in no way whatsoever affects you, and I'm having fun with it.

Ranting on a message board is not irrational anger. If you choose to wear a mask outdoors, you do you...but let's not bullshit ourselves here. Very few people wear a mask (where not required or needed) to make others feel safe but signalling their own political tribe. Same for those who insist not wearing them indoors.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by JManc

Ranting on a message board is not irrational anger. If you choose to wear a mask outdoors, you do you...but let's not bullshit ourselves here. Very few people wear a mask (where not required or needed) to make others feel safe but signalling their own political tribe. Same for those who insist not wearing them indoors.

One is violating actual rules though, and one is doing something that we can't prove without asking them. One is better and one is worse, and we need to get to the bottom of it. Plus I have seen masks with, how do you say....an "anti-mask" message? They are obviously wearing them against their will, and not everybody is in the signalling direction one might think. The solution here is to ask everybody you see wearing one.....it might take a long time but that's really the only way to know if they are being "extra cautious" or not.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by JManc

Are we wearing masks to mitigate of transmission/ spread of Covid or out of appearances? I get that some people have reasons for wearing them beyond of Covid (as suburbanite touched upon) but that's their decision. However, I am not going to feed into the hysteria by wearing one when it's not necessary simply out of appearances. Again, we are talking about outdoors.

You don't need to wear pants in order to protect yourself against COVID either. Why not buck social convention and go out without them (as long as it's warm enough)?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by TWAK

One is violating actual rules though, and one is doing something that we can't prove without asking them. One is better and one is worse, and we need to get to the bottom of it. Plus I have seen masks with, how do you say....an "anti-mask" message? They are obviously wearing them against their will, and not everybody is in the signalling direction one might think. The solution here is to ask everybody you see wearing one.....it might take a long time but that's really the only way to know if they are being "extra cautious" or not.

Let's put your fixation with 'rules' aside. Not wearing them indoors or a crowded area outdoors is a definitive 'fuck you' to that establishment and everyone you're around because the data does support Covid being readily transmitted in enclosed spaces. I do think it's far worse because you are actually endangering others.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by JManc

Let's put your fixation with 'rules' aside.

That's mostly where I'm coming from, since it seems people will dismiss deaths easier than the rules (not saying you are) and at first I was just mentioning how bad the deaths were. My career was based on rules and regulations, everything I did, to include working with the agencies that came up with them (like the EPA). Some people might talk about real-estate....not me.

Not wearing them indoors or a crowded area outdoors is a definitive 'fuck you' to that establishment and everyone you're around because the data does support Covid being readily transmitted in enclosed spaces. I do think it's far worse because you are actually endangering others.

Ah see, I want those people to come out and type why they still think wearing a mask is worse, besides calling it a catchphrase. To my amazement my area never really did that....people settled for fighting tyrannical Newsom by having words on their mask.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

For those of you who haven't been working from home and have been going into work this whole time, have your employers been having to ask questions regarding your health, and temperature checks, before starting work, or entering the building? My employer opted out of the temperature checks . . . .

For the last year I've said temperature checks were useless and now I think a consensus of "experts" agrees. They are one more "feel good" measure like spraying disinfectant around city streets like you see them doing in some developing world countries.

. . . do such temperature readings really help minimize the chances that an undiagnosed patient will infect others? Here, medical professionals agree: Temperature screenings alone are an insufficient way to suss out and minimize COVID-19 risk.

"When we talk about temperature checks, we need to know what we are getting and what we are not getting," Karan says.

What we are getting, per Karan, is another layer of precaution. But it's certainly not foolproof, and alone, it's certainly not enough.

That's because of the nature of the virus: Roughly half of infections don't present with fever, Advani says. Plus, the virus can be contagious even in its presymptomatic phase — that is, before an infected person even shows signs of being sick. A nonfeverish yet contagious person could sail through a temperature check.

So despite the benefits of temperature checks — it can't hurt to turn away someone who's feverish — there is cause for skepticism. Infectious disease specialist Mark Kortepeter explains that infrared temperature screenings can contribute to a misguided sense of security, encouraging people to participate in activities that aren't altogether that safe.

Karan agrees.

"It can give people a sense of reassurance to have someone at the door scanning your head, which gives the illusion of safety," he says. "But it's not in any way guaranteeing your safety, and it's not guaranteeing you're not infectious."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-is-that-helpf

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ it's becoming more clear that comparing states against one another on deaths or cases metrics is pretty useless because of the wide variances in how different states are testing for covid and tabulating their covid deaths.

we're probably not ever going to get a terribly clear apples-to-apples picture, because like everything else in our stupid-ass nation, it got all stupid and political.

but that still won't stop the axe-grinders on both sides from grinding their axes, because that's what axe-grinders do.

and the drain continues to be thoroughly circled.....

Hospitalizations and deaths are much more accurate bases of comparison than case numbers. Not totally accurate, but reasonably accurate. Insurance companies and Medicare insist on accurate classification of reasons for hospital admission--it's fraud to misrepresent the admitting diagnoses--and there's little if any motivation for lie about a cause of death.

[Steely Dan]

^^ i get the danger of the false sense of security it can give some, but it also can't hurt to prevent feverish people from being indoors with other people right now.

my son goes to school 5 days a week. he has to be there because he just does. trust me on this one.

i'm 100% ok with his school doing temperature checks before entry. not because i believe it means the school is then somehow impervious to infection, but because it simply cannot hurt to turn away a feverish child at the moment.

once vaccines are okayed for the little ones, i hope they drop the practice.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

there's little if any motivation for lie about a cause of death.

it's not about lying, it's the difference between "dying from covid" and "dying with covid".

it can be a fuzzy line at times and not all states are calling those shots the same.

so, we end up with apples to oranges.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ it's becoming more clear that comparing states against one another on deaths or cases metrics is pretty useless because of the wide variances in how different states are testing for covid and tabulating their covid deaths.

we're probably not ever going to get a terribly clear apples-to-apples picture, because like everything else in our stupid-ass nation, it got all stupid and political.

but that still won't stop the axe-grinders on both sides from grinding their axes, because that's what axe-grinders do.

and the drain continues to be thoroughly circled.....

Yeah, the full picture will come from the total deaths. Almost every state had a noticeable uptick in deaths in 2020 vs 2019.

On a related note, Hawaii has had the most manageable COVID outbreak of any U.S. state, due to their strict quarantine policies. And the number of excess deaths in the state between Jan and Oct 2020 matches the COVID fatalities total almost on the nose.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

For the last year I've said temperature checks were useless and now I think a consensus of "experts" agrees. They are one more "feel good" measure like spraying disinfectant around city streets like you see them doing in some developing world countries.


https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-is-that-helpf

Yesterday I got temp checked to sit outdoors at a bar that wasn't even crowded (my temp was 93F and they didn't even make me do it again, lol). I'm all for taking precautions, but that was among the most ridiculous precautions I've seen. But I still appreciate businesses that are overly cautious than ones that seem too nonchalant.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

For the last year I've said temperature checks were useless and now I think a consensus of "experts" agrees. They are one more "feel good" measure like spraying disinfectant around city streets like you see them doing in some developing world countries.


https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-is-that-helpf

Your link isn't consistent with what you're claiming. The link says that the check will pick up on some proportion of covid cases but not all, with some speculation about how this might lead to a false sense of security. One of the people interviewed says they have a net benefit and provide some additional layered protection (low cost, low benefit).

The "false sense of security" argument, presented without data, was also used against masks in the spring of 2020.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by TWAK

Ah see, I want those people to come out and type why they still think wearing a mask is worse, besides calling it a catchphrase. To my amazement my area never really did that....people settled for fighting tyrannical Newsom by having words on their mask.

They watched a YouTube channel that 'opened their eyes'

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yesterday I got temp checked to sit outdoors at a bar that wasn't even crowded (my temp was 93F and they didn't even make me do it again, lol). I'm all for taking precautions, but that was among the most ridiculous precautions I've seen. But I still appreciate businesses that are overly cautious than ones that seem too nonchalant.

Or being asked if you've been out of the country...when this country is among the worst with caseloads and fatalities.

Originally Posted by someone123

The "false sense of security" argument, presented without data, was also used against masks in the spring of 2020.

A lot of the anti-mask rhetoric stems from this. Had they said, masks are scarce and should be limited to frontline healthcare professionals so be careful in the meantime, the issue might have been less polarizing.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JManc

A lot of the anti-mask rhetoric stems from this. Had they said, masks are scarce and should be limited to frontline healthcare professionals so be careful in the meantime, the issue might have been less polarizing.

There was a lot of FUD about testing too, including arguments effectively saying 0 testing was better than testing with accuracy below some arbitrary threshold (often measured in a dubious way). In the real world, no test is perfectly accurate, no intervention is perfectly effective, and costs and trade-offs matter.

Similar issue with vaccines. Most of the world doesn't have access to a choice in vaccines or any vaccines, yet there is a lot of hesitation around AstraZeneca and J&J which while not completely without merit is often based on less than clear-eyed assessments of the trade-offs.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^^ i get the danger of the false sense of security it can give some, but it also can't hurt to prevent feverish people from being indoors with other people right now.

I totally agree. Whether someone has a fever due to COVID or another illness, if you have a fever, you shouldn't be out and about, let alone going to work. Plus, at least in California, we've had PSL for a number of years now, so if your own employer does a temperature check and sees that you have a fever, it's proof to them that you're sick and should go home, and you will be compensated for it.

[Camelback]

What if the CDC said to put on a cotton based dick cloth (tube sock) to prevent stds and pregnancy? Would we not all laugh?! That's basically what a face covering is with an airborne virus.

The best prevention methods are personal hygiene/cleanliness, frequent hand washing, no touching of the face or eyes and social distancing (much greater than 6 feet and in open air).