Tucson Development Thread

[InTheBurbs]

Originally Posted by crzyabe

The new owner of the FC Tucson soccer team had a conference call with supporters last night. He and his team went through their plans over the next few years. A new stadium is in the plans, though a location was not discussed.

That reminds me, how is that litigation going with NorGen?

Would a soccer stadium fit on that site?

[Locofresh55]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

Would a soccer stadium fit on that site?

If it is exactly the same stadium as where FC Tucson plays now (the Kino Complex site), maybe. But even that would look like a tight fit and look out of place near the federal courthouse. I feel like building just south of the Caterpillar headquarters building might work. Space for the stadium and parking, maybe start building up Cushing St (there is a extra parking lot between the Red Lion and Ramada Hotels so could be a taligating spot or at least auxiliary parking) and Mercado and MSA are down the street a little. I'm not tracking any other proposed uses of that area and it gets more foot traffic to the MSA, mission gardens and maybe even the streetcar.


Just saying, this is a possibility.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

Would a soccer stadium fit on that site?

Doubtful because NorGen wants half of that parcel for his Gem Show. Even before he bought the rest of the land, that strip he owned had always been those janky tents he sets up every year.

My guess if a stadium would ever be built (which I highly doubt it) would be down there in the Kino Sports Stadium complex.

I really dont know why NorGen doesn't just sell that entire parcel downtown. His wife is dead and the UofA is naming the mineral museum in the old Pima County Courthouse after her. He is like 90yo and isn't gonna be around much longer. I dont really see the point of his company and kids holding onto this. Its like the Don Diamond kids holding onto Old Tucson Studios just for the sake of it....and they ran it into the ground.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by southtucsonboy77

I haven't posted in ages...but just wanted to add that the proposed Overlays are a good step forward for the Broadway Corridor.

I haven't seen the entire proposed height limits for each piece, but I hope they learn their lesson from the Main Gate Square Overlay. At Main Gate, the market has made a mockery of the height restrictions. Instead of Hub V, IV, III, etc...there could have been 20+ floor structures that would have eliminated the need for all these multiple buildings of 10 floors here, 6 floors there. Same with the other developers. I'll never understand the logic that a 6, 10, 13, or 14 story building wouldn't block a so-called "view" the same as a taller structure. Blows my mind. I love the density that the Main Gate Overlay brings, but some parcels should have and could have gotten more height.

The irony of all this is that by not building up the city instead builds out and mimics the Phoenix metro area's sprawl even more.

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

Would a soccer stadium fit on that site?

I think you could easily fit an 8K-10K seat stadium on the site as long as you include Nor Gen's Tent lot.

I like the idea of building a stadium south of Caterpillar, but my understanding is that those lots require an estimated $30million in environmental mitigation before any structure can be built on that land. That is why a park is the only serious use that has been discussed.

I do think that if a new stadium is built by FC Tucson, it will probably be at Kino, south of I-10. Unfortunately, that location has always underwhelmed visitors because of a lack of amenities surrounding the site. If they build out the south fields like the original plans (Hotels, bars, restaurants, parks, etc) then that ight work, but that is a lot of investment.

[southtucsonboy77]

Thinking outside of the box, the old Greyhound Park property all the way up to the Old Spanish Trail property off of South 4th Ave would be a neat adaptive reuse project for a soccer stadium. Trolley/streetcar down 4th Ave, established restaurants (although Rigo’s just closed). Easy freeway access, close to downtown, the UofA, Kino fields, and the Tucson Marketplace.

[Patrick S]

Nothing major but an orthodontist office is coming to the Tucson Marketplace at the Bridges. Good to see their diversifying a little and starting to fill out more.

Taco Bell Opens and Ortho Pros Office Coming Soon at Tucson Marketplace at the Bridges

[Patrick S]

This is outside the Tucson Metro area but the governor approved funding for the I-10 bridge over the Gila River which will be the first part of the widening of the final stretches of I-10 between Tucson an Phoenix. Wish they were widening it beyond 3 lanes each way to accommodate future expansions.

ADOT Advance $230M in New Trans. Investments

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by Locofresh55

If it is exactly the same stadium as where FC Tucson plays now (the Kino Complex site), maybe. But even that would look like a tight fit and look out of place near the federal courthouse. I feel like building just south of the Caterpillar headquarters building might work. Space for the stadium and parking, maybe start building up Cushing St (there is a extra parking lot between the Red Lion and Ramada Hotels so could be a taligating spot or at least auxiliary parking) and Mercado and MSA are down the street a little. I'm not tracking any other proposed uses of that area and it gets more foot traffic to the MSA, mission gardens and maybe even the streetcar.

Just saying, this is a possibility.

To me, if moving downtown is a legitimate objective of the team, they should work with Rio Nuevo and focus on the old landfill site. RN's objective is to bring in sales tax dollars, which is exactly what an event venue like a soccer stadium would do. (This is why Norville, when he couldn't finance the subpar development he promised, switched to the amphitheater concept.) Anyway, the landfill site cannot support development without significant environmental remediation but a pitch with quasi-temporary stands and structures like Phoenix Rising uses could be completely viable, allowing RN to bring in tax revenue on property that's otherwise worthless to them.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

To me, if moving downtown is a legitimate objective of the team, they should work with Rio Nuevo and focus on the old landfill site. RN's objective is to bring in sales tax dollars, which is exactly what an event venue like a soccer stadium would do. (This is why Norville, when he couldn't finance the subpar development he promised, switched to the amphitheater concept.) Anyway, the landfill site cannot support development without significant environmental remediation but a pitch with quasi-temporary stands and structures like Phoenix Rising uses could be completely viable, allowing RN to bring in tax revenue on property that's otherwise worthless to them.

Yea...Rio Nuevo has been conflicted on what to do with this parcel. As it stands a park wouldn't bring in enough, if any, revenue which is the entire goal of Rio Nuevo and what keeps it afloat. But the landfill prevents them from building on it. They can invest a few million to clean it up and relocate the trash as its not that deep or large of an area. And it would be in the interest of the entire community because when water gets too high that landfill can and will seep into the underlying aquifer. That is why they had to basically stop them releasing grey water in the Santa Cruz river a couple years ago. They had been touting that for years and it would replenish the water supplies, etc. But the water was working too well and rising the aquifer levels too close to the landfill which would then contaminate it. So they've bascially stopped that water release.

Its really a mess of a problem. The only solution is to invest the millions to clean up that landfill and they they could do so much again with that area. Build, release water in the river, etc. But you know Tucson. They always do the right thing the 2nd or 3rd time around.

[andrewsaturn]

I love the idea of putting a stadium development in the old landfill site but it does face significant uphill battle. Not only does it need large funding to clean it, there are community members (especially preservationists) that will be against it. I attended a meeting a while ago to hear about the reintegration of water in the Santa Cruz and there was a speaker of Native descent that said it would be disrespectful to bring back to life the river because of the negative history of draining the ground water, that they would need the blessings from the elders, and it should just be left alone (all of it ironic because the city was allowed to dump trash in the same area..)

If developers go the easy route, I think they will choose the new Kino Sports complex area and build off there.

[Ted Lyons]

I, uh . . .

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

I, uh . . .

It is hideous! If this is built, it will seriously set back Tucson. I can imagine fierce resistance to high rise developments after this is built. What a nightmare!

[juan.x.ito]

it looks like four ugly buildings sandwiched together to form one big ugly building ☹️

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by juan.x.ito

it looks like four ugly buildings sandwiched together to form one big ugly building ☹️

Yes! The lack of cohesion is what bothers me most. Fixing one unified bad design isn't a huge chore. Fixing four bad designs is going to be a challenge that I'm not sure the city is up for.

[InTheBurbs]

I cannot believe that Swaim was willing to even put their logo on this abomination. It is hideous! If this is built, it will seriously set back Tucson. I can imagine fierce resistance to high rise developments after this is built. What a nightmare!

It looks like they had 4 different people design the 4 different sections without ever talking to one another.

Oh, and 1995 called. They want their design tools back.

[crzyabe]

"You! Design the retail bottom! You! Design the Parking floors! You! Design the office floors! You! Design the residential top!"

"But it will look weird, there will be no cohesion"

"NO TIME! Just pile them up and get me a rendering!"

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

I, uh . . .

Erm - is that 75 Broadway or something else? Egads...

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by xymox

Erm - is that 75 Broadway or something else? Egads...

This is the ugliest building I think I have ever seen. I hope Rio Nuevo or city council or someone has last say at this. I mean this looks NOTHING like the proposals over the past 4 years. How could they build something so grotesque? I'm all for development and skyscrapers....but not if this is what they're going to build. Thy city approved plans and sketches for the other structure. Can they just up and change it in the final days?

[Azstar]

I thought the original design was much worse than this one. Anyway, you have to understand that almost any building, whether you like it or not, is better than a vacant lot. Downtown Tucson development is still very fragile.