DENVER | Transportation Thread

[twister244]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

What's wrong with this picture?


Image courtesy of Westword

Addressing the current state of RTD, Chase Woodruff - Westword has a rather long, meandering retrospective with standard transit 'wisdom' that for the uninitiated may be a worthy read.

Thinking of San Diego as being a very good peer city comparison I checked into their financial performance. In 2018 they had a recover rate of just under 40% excluding depreciation and a recovery ratio of nearly 26% after depreciation is included which would compare to RTD's 18.5%. While not ideal a ratio of 25% should be the absolute minimum.

What's wrong with this picture?

Everyone should ride RTD buses?
Why is that?
Because we say so!
What if it's not convenient or useful to people?
Doesn't matter; everyone should ride da bus.
Have you ever considered making the service more useful to people?
Why would we do that?

Picture some young entrepreneurs meeting with a room full of Venture Capitalists asking for hundreds of millions of $'s using the same logic as transit agencies? Either laughter or total confusion would be the response.

But this is Public Transportation; it's a gift to the poor people.
But poor people are no more likely to use transit if it's not useful.
Well everybody should ride our buses.
I know: because you say so.

Have you ever considered creating a 'public' system that would actually be useful and popular and approach 100% recovery ratio - before depreciation?
Nah, that's too hard. Everybody should ride the bus.

Maybe because there's absolutely nothing wrong with riding a bus. There's a reason the Flatiron Flyer is successful - It runs frequently enough that folks don't have to worry about missing a beat. The FF2 express runs every 10 minutes during rush hours. And if you had the option to get to work like that if you commuted from Denver to Boulder, you would do it too. I now take the FF6 with my new job and I wouldn't trade it for a car and having to sit in traffic any day. This is the story that RTD needs to be running with. I say RTD should be looking to partner with the tech industry to establish pilots for autonomous buses as well.

[mhays]

Does the author honestly think RTD doesn't want to improve service? Sounds like a dimwit.

[TakeFive]

Bingo

Originally Posted by twister244

Maybe because there's absolutely nothing wrong with riding a bus. There's a reason the Flatiron Flyer is successful - It runs frequently enough that folks don't have to worry about missing a beat. The FF2 express runs every 10 minutes during rush hours. And if you had the option to get to work like that if you commuted from Denver to Boulder, you would do it too. I now take the FF6 with my new job and I wouldn't trade it for a car and having to sit in traffic any day. This is the story that RTD needs to be running with. I say RTD should be looking to partner with the tech industry to establish pilots for autonomous buses as well.

Nice comment.

Originally Posted by mhays

Does the author honestly think RTD doesn't want to improve service? Sounds like a dimwit.

Non-responsive but at least you're funny. I needed a nice hearty belly-laugh.

[TakeFive]

Some follow-up from tonight's Streetsblog piece

Originally Posted by twister244

Maybe because there's absolutely nothing wrong with riding a bus. There's a reason the Flatiron Flyer is successful - It runs frequently enough that folks don't have to worry about missing a beat. The FF2 express runs every 10 minutes during rush hours. And if you had the option to get to work like that if you commuted from Denver to Boulder, you would do it too. I now take the FF6 with my new job and I wouldn't trade it for a car and having to sit in traffic any day. This is the story that RTD needs to be running with. I say RTD should be looking to partner with the tech industry to establish pilots for autonomous buses as well.

https://denver.streetsblog.org/2019/...ate-emergency/

Although the Regional Transportation District is set to see its fifth straight year of ridership declines, Katz points to people flocking to new transit services that provide a better experience to riders, including the A line airport train, Bustang regional bus service and the Flatiron Flyer between Denver and Boulder.

“The Flatiorn Flyer is a good example. It takes thousands of people a day on the U.S. 36 corridor. It’s convenient. It’s timely. It goes to where people need to go,” he said while suggesting that similar service could cover Federal Boulevard, Colorado Boulevard and transportation to ski resorts. “There are ways to move significant numbers of people via transit. We just need more of that.”

The Flatiron Flyer exceeded projections from the get-go and RTD had to order more coach buses used for that service. It was initial and quickly growing demand that allowed for more frequent service. Understand that most RTD buses aren't the nice coach buses that you ride.

Additionally, I've pounded the table for more BRT-style routes but there's no money presently to do this and because tax revenues have not met projections more cuts will be necessary.

It's not just RTD and Denver that has seen falling bus ridership. Starting in 2014 bus ridership has been in steady decline from coast to coast - except in Seattle and Houston where a one-time redesign of the system had a one-time bump in ridership. There's several reasons that come up in survey after survey across the country as to why people were dissatisfied with buses. It's not a big mystery but agencies assume that the way things have always been done is the only way they can be done. A caricature of an ostrich comes to mind.

[trubador]

Imagine if we had true BRT on 36....

I have the opportunity to take the bus to work, but don't because there is no benefit. Between parking, walking to the bus stop and then waiting for the bus, and then sitting in the same traffic as my car, it is easier and faster to just drive. If we want people to ride buses, there needs to be a time benefit, so more bus lanes please.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by trubador

Imagine if we had true BRT on 36....

I have the opportunity to take the bus to work, but don't because there is no benefit. Between parking, walking to the bus stop and then waiting for the bus, and then sitting in the same traffic as my car, it is easier and faster to just drive. If we want people to ride buses, there needs to be a time benefit, so more bus lanes please.

See for me, it's a total win because I can work on the bus. A quick 3 minute walk to the 28 stop, 10 minutes to the US neighborhood. Grab Starbucks, walk onto the FF6, then get off a block from my office.....

If I drove, would I get to work faster? Sure, but only by about 20-30 minutes. Meanwhile, I am behind the wheel for 40-60 min stressing out, not getting anything done. I choose the former, as it's time I get back in my day. I totally agree that RTD should work on making true BRT happen, but I will still utilize what exists now.

[TakeFive]

CDOT blazing a new trail


A drone with the Colorado Department of Transportation flies over the Central 70 Project. (credit: CDOT) via CBS4


• Video Link

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by twister244

Maybe because there's absolutely nothing wrong with riding a bus. There's a reason the Flatiron Flyer is successful - It runs frequently enough that folks don't have to worry about missing a beat. The FF2 express runs every 10 minutes during rush hours.

I think frequency and timing is a big part of RTD's ridership problem and seems to be something they're not thinking about at all. I ride the W from Perry to the mall ride to work every morning and there are a couple really terrible things that happen:

• For some reason every train departing Perry after the 8:10 is only two cars. The next two trains (8:25 and 8:40) will get you to Auraria or Union Station before 9, so people (like me) who want to get to the office or school right around 9 could take these trains IF THEY WEREN'T PACKED SOLID. I usually have to squeeze on. I stand in the doorways a lot because the train is full. The 8:10 is three cars and is never as full, but then I would have to wake up earlier. There's doesn't seem to be a reason for this beyond terrible planning. It sure doesn't make it attractive to commute and I'm sure convinces more than a few people to drive instead of taking transit around the same time.
• The mall shuttles also do a shift change around 8:30. This means that when the light rail arrives at Union Station at 8:40 everyone waiting to get further up the mall stands there as multiple buses drive past (and they're definitely off shift - they go left on Wewatta and head towards the RTD HQ). When a shuttle on-shift finally does come it's immediately packed from the train or two that arrived since the last working shuttle, meaning that everyone getting off the commuter rail trains has to shove in or wait for the next (now-infrequent) bus.

These aren't even recent driver-shortage-caused issues, it's always been that way. The driver shortage has meant that apparently RTD just occasionally cancels one rush hour W with no warning. Like the 5:30 from Union Station the other night.
I assume most other lines and buses throughout RTD are the same, because I have heard similar complaints.

Anyway - this leads me to believe that the people in charge of planning and coordinating schedules at RTD are either really terrible at what they do, or sociopaths that hate people and the transit agency. The W has poor ridership, but maybe it would be better if RTD would acknowledge that rush hour continues until 9am and 6pm. I mean, the changes wouldn't be terrible - change mall ride shifts at 9:15 instead of 8:30. Run three car trains until 9:10 instead of 8:10 and until 6:15 instead of 5:15. Make it convenient for people to commute instead of blindly sticking to the same schedules.

I also wonder if increased frequency on all the lightrail from 7-9 and 4:30-6:30 would increase ridership... I know that they're struggling to find drivers, but if the FF can run every 10 minutes, why can't all the light rail lines? I know they're on shared tracks and it would require retiming a whole lot of systems, but if we're stuck with 15 minute timing on all lines I'm not sure that the current rail system will ever increase ridership.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I think frequency and timing is a big part of RTD's ridership problem and seems to be something they're not thinking about at all. I ride the W from Perry to the mall ride to work every morning and there are a couple really terrible things that happen:

• For some reason every train departing Perry after the 8:10 is only two cars. The next two trains (8:25 and 8:40) will get you to Auraria or Union Station before 9, so people (like me) who want to get to the office or school right around 9 could take these trains IF THEY WEREN'T PACKED SOLID. I usually have to squeeze on. I stand in the doorways a lot because the train is full. The 8:10 is three cars and is never as full, but then I would have to wake up earlier. There's doesn't seem to be a reason for this beyond terrible planning. It sure doesn't make it attractive to commute and I'm sure convinces more than a few people to drive instead of taking transit around the same time.
• The mall shuttles also do a shift change around 8:30. This means that when the light rail arrives at Union Station at 8:40 everyone waiting to get further up the mall stands there as multiple buses drive past (and they're definitely off shift - they go left on Wewatta and head towards the RTD HQ). When a shuttle on-shift finally does come it's immediately packed from the train or two that arrived since the last working shuttle, meaning that everyone getting off the commuter rail trains has to shove in or wait for the next (now-infrequent) bus.

These aren't even recent driver-shortage-caused issues, it's always been that way. The driver shortage has meant that apparently RTD just occasionally cancels one rush hour W with no warning. Like the 5:30 from Union Station the other night.
I assume most other lines and buses throughout RTD are the same, because I have heard similar complaints.

Anyway - this leads me to believe that the people in charge of planning and coordinating schedules at RTD are either really terrible at what they do, or sociopaths that hate people and the transit agency. The W has poor ridership, but maybe it would be better if RTD would acknowledge that rush hour continues until 9am and 6pm. I mean, the changes wouldn't be terrible - change mall ride shifts at 9:15 instead of 8:30. Run three car trains until 9:10 instead of 8:10 and until 6:15 instead of 5:15. Make it convenient for people to commute instead of blindly sticking to the same schedules.

I also wonder if increased frequency on all the lightrail from 7-9 and 4:30-6:30 would increase ridership... I know that they're struggling to find drivers, but if the FF can run every 10 minutes, why can't all the light rail lines? I know they're on shared tracks and it would require retiming a whole lot of systems, but if we're stuck with 15 minute timing on all lines I'm not sure that the current rail system will ever increase ridership.

So far the A Line has had ZERO cancellations- but it's operated by DTO and is outside of the ATU which raises a valid question. Is the fact that 55% of RTD's bus routes and all of the rail lines operated by union drivers not allowing enough flexibility to meet scheduling requirements? I haven't seen any data on this yet, and haven't dug, but are First Transit and Transdev suffering similar issues with driver retention and have contracted routes suffered from cancellations?

[Denver Dweller]

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ulWWK8FmTDx_ZA

[TakeFive]

Police: RTD Driver Assaulted By 2 Juveniles In Aurora
November 9, 2019

AURORA, Colo. (CBS4) – Aurora police and RTD officials confirm to CBS4 a bus driver was assaulted on Thursday. Police say the driver fought off two juvenile attackers.

It happened just after noon at Havana Street and Bayaud Avenue. The driver suffered stab wounds and was taken to the hospital. It’s not clear how the driver is doing.

The two juveniles were also taken to the hospital with minor injuries. It’s not clear if anyone faces charges.

The incident is still under investigation including video camera recordings.

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ulWWK8FmTDx_ZA

As pointed out in the article: government run means lots of red tape and rules as to who does what and what it takes to process people. The privately run guys seem to have less problems; what a surprise.

[TakeFive]

Always dreamed of visiting with the Pope?

Nonstop flights from DIA to Rome to begin in late March
Nov 12, 2019 By: Stephanie Butzer - Denver7

DENVER — Norwegian Air has announced new nonstop flights from Denver International Airport to Rome. The flights will start March 31, 2020. It will be Denver’s first-ever and only nonstop service to Italy. Nearly 40,000 people fly the 11 hours between Denver and Rome each year, according to DIA.

In the beginning, there will be two flights available each week, which will increase to three during the peak travel periods of late April to early October.

[TakeFive]

No more free buffet for you

https://www.cpr.org/2019/11/15/every...n-budget-cuts/

On most Tuesday afternoons, the Regional Transportation District’s board gathers for a free buffet in an out-of-the-way lobby before heading into their official meetings.

Soon, though, board members will have to pay for those meals: $10 charged to their personal expense account. It’s one way RTD is cutting costs as it tries to close a $40 million gap in its 2020 budget. The board is set to give its final sign-off to cuts in December.

“It seems like, pardon the expression, low-hanging fruit,” board chair Doug Tisdale said of the cost-savings plan at a committee meeting in October.

So when the economy is good then transit is in recession?

The board is cutting $200,000 out of its own budget, limiting things like travel to professional conferences. Some capital projects will be put on hold, though it’s not yet clear which ones will be affected. RTD has $44 million in such projects planned for next year, including a new restroom for bus drivers in Aurora and new roof for its bus maintenance and storage facility north of downtown Denver.

So how bad is it?

“Everybody is feeling the pain,” board member Angie Rivera-Malpiede said.

Merit-based pay raises for salaried employees will be cut in half, and their retirement plan could take a hit too. Most departments are reducing costs by 10 percent.

[TakeFive]

What would RTD's ridership be if not for rail transit

Survey after survey shows a clear preference for rail transit over buses. Currently rail ridership is close to half of what bus ridership is but does that mean rail riders reflect a net gain? Obviously not but how much of a difference would there be if not for rail?

Over the last decade Denver's MSA population has grown from 2.5 million to 2.9 million for an increase of 16%. The city of Denver over the last decade has grown by over 20% to over 715K.

Yet, over the last decade (using 2008 as a base year per DBJ), transit ridership has fallen 5%. What's wrong with this picture?

[PLANSIT]

I’m not even sure what you’re trying say/prove.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

I’m not even sure what you’re trying say/prove.

Actually, I was just making a couple of observations.

It's not that I didn't already know that the population had gone up while transit ridership had gone down, I just hadn't connected the two before. To connect the dots and answer my own questions; if transit ridership had merely gone up with the rate of population growth it would have risen by 15% to 20%. By deduction, since it's down 5% it has performed 20% to 25% worse than what would have been logically expected. That's quite a gap.

Obviously I've beat the drum for how RTD needs to get a better bang for it's buck and the above numbers elucidate how poorly its return is.

RTD could improve the service?

They've done that by opening 5 new light and commuter rail corridors over the last 7 years. To be fair, the G Line only recently opened and the B Line doesn't amount to much.

They could ask the voters for more 'operating' money?

IIRC, bunt said he wouldn't vote for giving RTD more money unless... and I suspect most voters would agree with him?

They could right-size the quantity of service offered to better fit the demand?

Yes, this seems to be about the only near-term fix that I can think of. It would also be nice if RTD could figure out what riders want and would flock to.

[twister244]

All RTD needs to do is allocate more resources for rapid bus service, and stop obsessing over more rail. Build rapid bus networks off of existing rail lines, etc. Make it frequent enough that people won't have to worry about missing a bus. Partner with tech to design and test autonomous routes. This ain't rocket science..... This beat has been drummed so much on here it's beginning to get boring.

[Cirrus]

Obviously when you build a bunch of rapid transit lines where they did not exist before, and otherwise do not cut other services, ridership will tend to go up. Obviously RTD ridership is higher with its rail lines than it would be without (assuming everything else stayed the same). No one here has ever claimed otherwise AFAIK. But if you really want to know, start with RTD's bus ridership from the year before rail opened, and apply an escalating proxy based on the average of a selection of cities that haven't opened major rail lines since then.

The more interesting question is how much higher RTD's ridership would be if they had built lines with maximizing ridership in mind, rather than with maximizing political coverage. We all recognize maximizing political coverage was necessary to pass a vote, but it would be interesting to know the lost opportunity cost. This would take a lot of work to find out. Plan a comparable-cost system, model it to get ridership.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

This would take a lot of work to find out. Plan a comparable-cost system, model it to get ridership.

This would be a great exercise for college level analysis. But it would be only speculative and difficult to duplicate the context and mindset of the 1990's and early 2000's. Additionally, RTD's own projections were often off by a good bit. The euphoria started when the first suburb to city line, built next to the freight tracks and for peanuts, ended up smashing original projections. But that optimism faded with additional lines that haven't met projections - yet.

https://www.rtd-denver.com/reports-a...ight-rail-line

SYSTEM COSTS/RIDERSHIP

• Prior corridor expenditures: $17.9 million
• Project cost excluding prior expenditures (year of expenditure): $159.8 million
• Total: $177.7 million

Ridership has exceeded the projected forecast of 8,400 riders per weekday and averaged 17,900 riders, in April 2002, at the five stations (113 percent over projections). Total light rail system ridership was projected at 22,400 and reached a high of 41,690 average weekday boardings in September 2006. Steady ridership growth continued through 2006 when the Southeast Light Rail line opened.

With the 1999 voter approved SE Corridor expansion - T-REX project - including both freeway lanes and light rail, that meant light rail going to the SW and the SE metro areas; it was only natural for the rest of the metro area to start asking "Where's my fair share of this pie."

EDIT: I meant to include that the SW Corridor light rail received a FFGA of $120 million plus DRCOG/CDOT arranged an additional FHWA grant of $18 million so this project cost RTD all of $39 million. Wrap your mind around that bargain.

[TakeFive]

Let's play Baseball

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The more interesting question is how much higher RTD's ridership would be if they had built lines with maximizing ridership in mind, rather than with maximizing political coverage. We all recognize maximizing political coverage was necessary to pass a vote, but it would be interesting to know the lost opportunity cost.

Looking on the Bright Side there's no point in what could have been done as the future for light & commuter rail is quite bright. Let's zero in on just the City of Denver and look at TOD over the next decade (and beyond). I see: 2 Home Runs, 3 Triples, 5 Doubles and a number of solid Singles.

Two Home Runs

Denver Union Station
A dream already fulfilled.

The River Mile - Elitch Gardens/Pepsi Center Station
Right on the edge of downtown this high density, mixed-use, walkable development now has the re-zoning in place and master plan and TIFIA funding approval from the city.

Three Triples

38th & Blake Street Station
Perhaps the shiniest of Triples assuming all the development plans move forward.

I-25 & Broadway Station
It's only taken the Gates site ten years but it is now entitled, rezoned and taking off in 2020 along with the other nearby projects.

Decatur-Federal Station
With the total redevelopment of Sun Valley and the Broncos Stadium development plan to the south of the stadium, Decatur-Federal Station is sure to be a solid triple. This is the one station where mixed-use, affordable as well as market rate housing will be built.

Five Doubles

Central Park - Stapleton Station
Over the next decade this TOD should come to fruition as a promise fulfilled.

Auraria West Station
With student housing a part of the Master Plan, this already popular station will get even better.

Belleview Station
Well on its way.

National Western Stock Show Station
While having less of a residential component this $1 billion plus development with voter approved funding in place for most of the project, having a rail station in its midst has to qualify as a nice Double.

41st and Fox Station
One impressive project under construction with a lot of threats and plans for enough to make this an ultimate Double

A number of Singles either exist or will develop over the next decade to include 10th & Osage Station, University Station, Colorado Station and Evans Station.

So after all the pissing and moaning around FasTracks etc the City of Denver will ultimately be the biggest beneficiary of all those FasTracks and previous rail lines with all the TOD over the next decade. I guess you could say that for the City of Denver the system as built is a bubbling Big Home Run.