Winnipeg Jets

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ No question it's tough to swallow being knocked down a peg after being considered legit Cup contenders for the last two seasons. The fall from grace happened much faster than I would have expected... this is a CFL-like deterioration where you lose your QB and MLB and you go from division champ to 4th place overnight.

I have to say, I haven't been as interested in the Jets this season. It's been a bit of a tire fire with the 'plug n play' defense and I have just been struggling with some of the decisions that have been made overall.

[bomberjet]

Not sure if anyone posted. Byfuglien has ankle surgery last week, according to the insidrrrrrrs. Will be out at least into the new year.

Also, owning a sports team isn't really your go to for income. A lot of owners are billionaires as was mentioned. Sports teams are like a vanity project for most of them.

[esquire]

^ Yup. There is a world of difference between someone like Shenkarow in the old days who owned a couple of car dealerships vs. someone like Thomson who is literally one of the wealthiest people on earth. I'm not saying he'd never sell the team, but he sure as hell isn't going to panic or even feel it if the Jets started averaging 12,000 fans a night.

[Gm0ney]

Originally Posted by buzzg

You guys are very far off – TNSE paid for a vast majority of the arena. We as taxpayers got one of the best deals with the MTS Centre out of most North American pro sports venues.

All three levels of government paid a combined $40m, while TNSE paid the balance of $93m.

True North is paying for the arena renovations.

True North (with partners) owns the Shark Club casino, and paid for the VLTs. They are getting to keep more of the revenue than most, but they are still giving a huge amount of tax to the government from the casino – with the government shouldering none of the risk or burden of developing, running, and maintaining a casino downtown. Shark Club isn't that busy on non-event nights, so it could have been a money pit if it was government run.

Sure, TNSE is getting some tax breaks and support for True North Square – but good for them. They, with Richardson, are almost single-handedly rebuilding downtown, and spending hundreds of millions of dollars, which also provide a ton of taxes, all while substantially growing the annual tax contributions of the properties they own.

Here's an article outlining how lots of sports venues were funded in Canada. The Ticats, Redblacks, [not Nordiques], and Bombers' venues were all 100% taxpayer funded. Riders only fronted $25m of their $278m stadium. The Oilers only paid for 25% of their arena – and its the city's to manage now (we all know how that will work out down the road).

Of TNSE's $93M, $20M was cash, $5M was the land value, and the rest was financed through or by the province. So a $68M loan. They made payments on that loan from 2004 when MTS Centre opened, until 2011 when the NHL returned. At that point they renegotiated the terms and the VLT money (and later the Shark Club Casino money) started paying that. If we're generous and say they paid $20M in principal and interest in 7 years before the gambling revenues started footing the bill, then they paid $45M total for the arena.

Also: do you really think running a casino in downtown Winnipeg would expose the province to a lot of risk? I mean, only Trump or a government could lose money running a casino, but still...

[Gm0ney]

Originally Posted by Jammon

The NHL will never pull out of this market again when so many American teams are losing money. They moved the Jets 1.0 because of economics. Take Canadian teams to the US so they can make money. Now, hockey interest is dwindling and Americans are more focused on other sports. Even hockey interest is on the decline in Canada. And the Canadian teams are propping up many of the American franchises: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...teams-in-2010/

The economics was mostly arena-related. The NHL would've stayed if the team could've built a new self-owned arena. There was no way the Jets could've survived with the old Winnipeg Arena (even if they owned it, it was still a dinosaur - bad sightlines, concessions, no luxury suites).

And even with a new arena, it would've been pretty touch-and-go in the early 2000s when the dollar was $0.62 US. Edmonton was on very thin ice at that point. Vancouver had trouble...even in a modern arena. God knows how Ottawa survived (I believe they went bankrupt at some point). Even the Habs were bleeding money back then.

[robertocarlos]

The day they ask for $600 million for a new arena is coming. Fortunately, TNSE will pony up $150 million. But with all the construction jobs and what they've done for us already it will easily pass a vote.

The only reason 300 Main is going up is live, work, play.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

The economics was mostly arena-related. The NHL would've stayed if the team could've built a new self-owned arena. There was no way the Jets could've survived with the old Winnipeg Arena (even if they owned it, it was still a dinosaur - bad sightlines, concessions, no luxury suites).

No question the old arena lacked all the moneymaking stuff like skyboxes and the Jets didn't get concession money, but the sightlines at the old barn were fine. It was a great place to watch hockey games as a regular fan in the stands.

[bomberjet]

The arena downtown will be there for numerous decades to come. There's no reason to build a new one. it serves exactly the purpose it was intended and is the appropriate size, like it or not.

Maybe if they built a new arena, with say 17,500 seats, theoretically the seat price would be cheaper than the 15,000 seat arena. but then you have a new, huge overhead cost in paying for the arena. I think we're good where we are.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

No question the old arena lacked all the moneymaking stuff like skyboxes and the Jets didn't get concession money, but the sightlines at the old barn were fine. It was a great place to watch hockey games as a regular fan in the stands.

The sightlines in the upper deck were obstructed. You had to watch part of the ice on tiny b&w tvs.

[roccerfeller]

The jets organization is making money. They are also incredibly successful.

This is a non issue imo

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The arena downtown will be there for numerous decades to come. There's no reason to build a new one. it serves exactly the purpose it was intended and is the appropriate size, like it or not.

Maybe if they built a new arena, with say 17,500 seats, theoretically the seat price would be cheaper than the 15,000 seat arena. but then you have a new, huge overhead cost in paying for the arena. I think we're good where we are.

even if a new arena in 2030 when winnipeg is a million people strong is built, I still see it being no larger than 16k

The business model tnse uses works well

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

The sightlines in the upper deck were obstructed. You had to watch part of the ice on tiny b&w tvs.

I sat all over the upper decks and not once did I not have a full view of the ice. What was remarkable was that from the highest rows of the upper deck you couldn't see anything over the far boards - it was engineered with precision so that you could see the full sheet of ice but barely a metre or two past it. It was kind of weird watching the game but being unable to see the fans in the stands. But you could definitely watch the game.

I mean, maybe there were a tiny handful of seats that actually didn't have a full view of the ice but if there were, it certainly wasn't common.

The TVs just showed a view of the scoreboard for the higher rows (much like the upper parts of the 300 level situated behind the press box at MTS Centre) and they were in fact colour!

[bomberjet]

As a kid, I really liked sitting in the one end where the seats went way up. In the blue seats I think. Hard to remember now, it's been so long and I was young.

And the TV's in the upper deck haha the memories. I was up there for the last game vs Detroit.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

As a kid, I really liked sitting in the one end where the seats went way up. In the blue seats I think. Hard to remember now, it's been so long and I was young.

The south end seats. It was crazy high, must have been like 50 rows. I used to sit up there all the time as a kid in the 7-Eleven seats. It was a little unsettling hiking up there because it was steep, and you knew if you tumbled, it was a loooong way down. I never did see anyone take the plunge, though.

[Ando]

Ottawa is a concern - averaging under 12000 per game, 58% capacity.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ando

Ottawa is a concern - averaging under 12000 per game, 58% capacity.

The Sens are probably broken until Melnyk sells the team to someone else.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by esquire

The south end seats. It was crazy high, must have been like 50 rows. I used to sit up there all the time as a kid in the 7-Eleven seats. It was a little unsettling hiking up there because it was steep, and you knew if you tumbled, it was a loooong way down. I never did see anyone take the plunge, though.

My knees used to always tremble when I was a kid climbing up the stairs in the old arena, most of the events I ever went to there I usually had good seats in the lower section with fantastic views, but sometimes in the upper deck where it was also crazy steep - once for the shrine circus and the lights in the place were low (it was terrifying). I remember going to a motocross race once and our seats were directly behind a column that supported the upper deck and you could literally see nothing it obstructed probably 60deg of the field of view.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Originally Posted by esquire

The south end seats. It was crazy high, must have been like 50 rows. I used to sit up there all the time as a kid in the 7-Eleven seats. It was a little unsettling hiking up there because it was steep, and you knew if you tumbled, it was a loooong way down. I never did see anyone take the plunge, though.

They were crazy high indeed. Last time I sat there was the gold medal game for the 98/99 World Juniors. We were in the last row and I had to slouch to see under the rafters.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Biff

Byfuglien's House is sold.......we need to MOVE ON!

Emily Byfuglien went to social media today saying that they did in fact not sell their house. Was none to pleased some website published where they lived.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Emily Byfuglien went to social media today saying that they did in fact not sell their house. Was none to pleased some website published where they lived.

Byfuglien's actions are not surprisingly going to create a froth of speculation... when you're a NHL star and you just kind of step away from your team without providing any insight or answers and you leave the door open to a possible return, you can't be terribly surprised when people start trying to read the tea leaves.

Someone tell Emily that there is a very easy way to nip all of this speculation in the bud. Yeah Buff doesn't owe anyone an explanation, but let's face it... people will keep hunting for signs until there's a definitive answer one way or another.