Burnaby Updates

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

That's the very question big companies like Pinnacle are in the business of knowing the answer to.

So, again, do you believe that Pinnacle--a private company whose business is property development--is proposing a building height that's not beneficial to its bottom line?

And again, I believe that prestige is as much to do with it as profitability. There weren't any 60+ proposals in the 2016-era Metrotown boom, and that area is twice as desirable as Lougheed will ever be.

For an egregious example, CN Tower is definitely not as high as it is because of the "bottom line." They didn't want a communications tower, they wanted the biggest one. Same principle.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Probably because it's going to be literally across the street from City Of Lougheed, which is rebuilding a mall into podiums with towers on top. There's already going to be plenty of retail - I'm more interested to see how much office and hotel space there's going to be here (not sure how much CoL will have).

In Metrotown and Brentwood, a development like this would require more commercial space given the amount of residential. I guess Lougheed has a different plan in place.

[officedweller]

It still has 430,000 sq ft of office, hotel and retail proposed.

Preliminary details for the proposed project include:

Three residential towers (82-storeys, 67-storeys & 62-storeys);

• up to 1.9 Million SF of market residential (11.91 FAR);
• 20% rental housing (2.16 FAR);
• estimated 430,000 SF of office, retail & hotel uses;
• relocation of Gatineau Place to align with the new north-south Grand Promenade road;
• new covered transit plaza adjacent to the SkyTrain station and bus loop;
• a new pedestrian bridge over Austin Road to connect the covered transit plaza and subject site with the Lougheed Mall site to the north.

The application describes the design rationale: “The ground level for each tower will be animated with retail uses that will activate the public realm and integrate with the transit plaza. The second level will include retail components in each building together with a hotel lobby in the “East Tower” and an office lobby in the “West Tower”. The tower podiums will share common thematic elements and will be interconnected with sky bridges allowing pedestrian movement between buildings and a connection to the Lougheed Mall Precinct.

The three towers will vary in height, with the largest (East Tower) reaching 82 levels comprised of retail, hotel and residential uses. The West Tower will feature retail, office and residential components within 67 levels, while the “South Tower” will be 62 levels in height and will include retail and residential uses. The design is inspired by nature with the three buildings metaphorically representing an ensemble of flowers expressed through appropriate massing and architectural articulation.”

http://www.vancouvermarket.ca/2019/1...d-for-burnaby/

Really, really old rendering of the area from 2016 (but it shows the north side of the site) -
You can see where the West Tower and the East Tower will go.
The South Tower would be off the bottom of the pic.

Seems like there would be sizeable space for retail.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Just noticed this rendering in the Leasing Brochure:


http://www.shapeproperties.com/sites...heed_new_1.pdf

[logan5]

If they are following the same plan as metrotown,and are maxing out density, they would be required to have 3 fsr for commercial. I've never seen a clear plan for Lougheed Town Centre though (including areas outside the mall). There is a plan,but it's vague. It doesn't give density limits. Whatever.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by logan5

If they are following the same plan as metrotown,and are maxing out density, they would be required to have 3 fsr for commercial. I've never seen a clear plan for Lougheed Town Centre though (including areas outside the mall). There is a plan,but it's vague. It doesn't give density limits. Whatever.

From Dec 2018 (and admittedly not as specific as you want)

Upon the full completion of all phases, the $7-billion, 37-acre redevelopment of Shape Properties’ mall site will entail over 20 towers reaching up to heights of 65 storeys, with over 10,000 units of housing within nearly 11 million-sq-ft of residential space.

Another major component is the project’s retail space, with about 1.5 million-sq-ft of new retail — more than doubling the retail space of the existing indoor mall. Much of the retail space will be centred around a galleria spine — a pedestrian-only, glass-covered outdoor retail strip spanning over 300 metres long.

Street front retail opportunities are also planned for portions of the new road network going through the site, Austin Road, and the north-south Grand Promenade that begins from the new landmark glass canopied transit plaza serving SkyTrain’s Lougheed Town Centre and the redesigned bus exchange.

...

Some retail and the bulk of the project’s office components, about one million sq. ft. of office space, will be located near the transit plaza.

...

[SpongeG]

being that high would it have balconies? I kinda hope not

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

^ That's probably the best option in the case of a single-floor Metrotown rebuild: enclosed stores, open-air pedestrian street, big glass roof. Not much point in looking like every other rained-out streetfront in the metro.

Of course, it's all predicated on IC selling in the first place, instead of just developing the parking lots; they're probably looking at Oakridge and thinking "maybe not a good idea..."

IC is the property manager for a group of owners which they are also. So the bigger group will dictate what will happen with the mall

[cairnstone]

I thought that property was owned also by Shape. Tall towers look good there as the site is further down the hill so they wont be that mush higher than the shape towers at Lougheed town center. Im thinking Burquitlam will soon rival Metrotown for towers. Concert has 2 properties that have 10 towers I believe coming soon. You have the Moguard property at Burquitlam station. Lougheed towers has 2 buildings of rental to go in. The strip mall across the road to the east and the one to the south. All the commercial space is 50 plus years old and has not had much in the way of upgrades.

[SFUVancouver]

Shape sold the subject property to Pinnacle for their proposal for a cool $220M!

Also, just who the heck is Shape? Did they change their name from something else? Their website is a master class on not revealing anything substantive about the company itself. I assume that it is private and they are clearly exceptionally well capitalized to be undertaking Brentwood, City of Lougheed, partnering with CF on Richmond Centre, and have a handful of additional smaller projects, too. But they just came out of nowhere and starting incredibly ambitious projects for which they are following through. I assumed they were a buy-rezone-sell/parcel-off actor when they bought Brentwood and announced that project's redevelopment. I would have put money down that we'd never see a shovel in the ground for City of Lougheed before the decade was out.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

I thought that property was owned also by Shape. Tall towers look good there as the site is further down the hill so they wont be that mush higher than the shape towers at Lougheed town center. Im thinking Burquitlam will soon rival Metrotown for towers. Concert has 2 properties that have 10 towers I believe coming soon. You have the Moguard property at Burquitlam station. Lougheed towers has 2 buildings of rental to go in. The strip mall across the road to the east and the one to the south. All the commercial space is 50 plus years old and has not had much in the way of upgrades.

"Soon" is kinda stretching it and reaching a bit, methinks.
We're looking at a 20-30 year steady build-out of towers and projects before it even begins to rival Metrotown.
Brentwood at their current pace of construction projects and with the projected proposals on the horizon would be a more likelier bet to rival Metrotown sooner than that.

Don't forget that during all this, Metrotown itself isn't just going to be standing still as a lot of SFH's and walkup/tear down property is slated to be replaced by towers in the next 10 years as well.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Also, just who the heck is Shape? Did they change their name from something else? Their website is a master class on not revealing anything substantive about the company itself. I assume that it is private and they are clearly exceptionally well capitalized to be undertaking Brentwood, City of Lougheed, partnering with CF on Richmond Centre, and have a handful of additional smaller projects, too. But they just came out of nowhere and starting incredibly ambitious projects for which they are following through. I assumed they were a buy-rezone-sell/parcel-off actor when they bought Brentwood and announced that project's redevelopment. I would have put money down that we'd never see a shovel in the ground for City of Lougheed before the decade was out.

Inb4 whatnext comes along with "money laundering..."

[WhipperSnapper]

Amazing Brentwood is being financed by a major Ontario pension fund and a major US private equity group. Shape is partnering with Cadillac Fairview in Richmond. The simplest solution is that someone at Shape is well connected to these circles that have billions earmarked for real estate investment but, no in house real estate expertise in how to spend it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Shape sold the subject property to Pinnacle for their proposal for a cool $220M!

Also, just who the heck is Shape? Did they change their name from something else? Their website is a master class on not revealing anything substantive about the company itself. I assume that it is private and they are clearly exceptionally well capitalized to be undertaking Brentwood, City of Lougheed, partnering with CF on Richmond Centre, and have a handful of additional smaller projects, too. But they just came out of nowhere and starting incredibly ambitious projects for which they are following through. I assumed they were a buy-rezone-sell/parcel-off actor when they bought Brentwood and announced that project's redevelopment. I would have put money down that we'd never see a shovel in the ground for City of Lougheed before the decade was out.

They've been around since the mid 2000s, but don't forget they're not doing all this on their own. Brentwood is co-owned by the Healthcare of Ontario Pension Plan, and The City of Lougheed with TD Greystone Asset Management.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

"Soon" is kinda stretching it and reaching a bit, methinks.
We're looking at a 20-30 year steady build-out of towers and projects before it even begins to rival Metrotown.
Brentwood at their current pace of construction projects and with the projected proposals on the horizon would be a more likelier bet to rival Metrotown sooner than that.

Don't forget that during all this, Metrotown itself isn't just going to be standing still as a lot of SFH's and walkup/tear down property is slated to be replaced by towers in the next 10 years as well.

The Coquitlam side will be contributing about 27 towers in the next few years, plus the recently complete Brookmere & Burquitlam Capital.

Currently under construction
3 towers - Lougheed Heights
2 towers - Wyndam Green
2 Towers - Hensley
2 Towers - Clark + Como

Proposed/Approved/Starting Soon

2 Towers (of 5) - Soco
1 Tower - Sydney
1 Tower - Meridian
1 Tower - Highpoint
1 Tower - 533 Cottonwood
1 Tower - 520 Cottonwood
2 Towers - 707 North Road
4 Towers - Como & Clarke Road
2 Towers - 675 North Road
1 Tower - 500 Foster
2 Towers (8 towers total) - YMCA development

Still awaiting
1 Tower - Burquitlam Funeral home site
1 Tower - Cochrane & North Road
1 Tower - Westview & Austin
At least 3 more sites along North Road between Cochrane & Foster slated to become Towers

On the Burnaby side
3 towers - Lougheed Village
3 Towers - 3355 North Road

[WhipperSnapper]

The list is mainly proposed. You also have to consider it takes 3 to 4 years to complete the average tower. You would need more than 27 towers in various stages of construction right now to add 27 towers to the skyline in the next few years.

[SpongeG]

I didn't say they would be complete right away, I just said there are 27 towers being added to the Coqutilam side alone, that doesn't include the 23 towers at Lougheed Mall, thats 50 towers in this area.

I don't know how many more are coming for metrotown yet. But we know 50 will be added to the Lougheed area plus the 3 just announced which will include the tallest of 82 storeys. Plus there are a number of sites on the Coquitlam side still awaiting to be sold or proposed.

Its crazy as I have lived here for over 25 years now and smack dab in the middle of a perpetual construction zone these days LOL, good times. I think by 2030 we will see all of these completed. the first 9 will be done 2020 - 2022.

[phesto]

There's definitely some ego at play here with the Pinnacle proposal at 82-storeys.

Not a coincidence that the head of the company just happens to be the brother of the head of Onni, who only last year announced the tallest building in B.C. at Gilmore Station.

[cairnstone]

Pensions make up the majority of the mall redevelopment projects. They put up a portion and then add private equity. Shape, Starelight Metcap living are both Ontario funds.

Metcap came into town about 6 years ago and bought up a big stake in purpose built highrise rentals. Lougheed towers were sold for record amount. https://www.bisnow.com/vancouver/new...tifamily-53300 They also bought in New West Surrey, Downtown I believe and North Van

[vanman]

Conceptual plans of the Metrotown redevelopment will be released at an open house on November 25th.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5339075

The audio clip with the vice president of Ivanhoe Cambridge is worth a listen.

-12,000 residential units
-Kingsway parking lots to be redeveloped first

[owenhujb]

Yesterday night 4 major metrotown projects were sent to public hearing