HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Downtown & City of Vancouver


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #17601  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:28 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 14,493
Having been away for 6 years I was shocked at how much worse the DTES has become when I drove through it this summer. Soooooo many more homeless laying about a far larger area than before.

I highly doubt that that many Vancouver locals have become homeless over the last 6 years... it’s almost as if the DTES is a magnet that attracts such people from far and wide and then the people of our city have to deal with it on their own...

What will be the breaking point?

It seems that people hate to admit it but there are obviously fundamental flaws in the extreme left approach to dealing with homelessness. This doesn’t mean we need to swing hard to the right, but obviously a more balanced approach is needed. Compassion but also discipline. Care but also rules.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17602  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:41 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
from the inside out
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
The city and province are definitely putting the final nails in the coffin of any potential future DTES revival . . . I will put my neck on the line . . .
You might be right. Given the length of the history, I don't think the term 'revival' is appropriate: it only portrays a non-existent argument that the state of the area is 'naturally/inherently' supposed to be relatable to how it was long ago: not a real argument.

Your critique most certainly contains truths, but, could you address the totality of the situation. In other words: just what would such a revival entail; how do you see your dream unfolding; what happens to all of the sectors (economic, social, health, etc.) that comprise the whole place? What is your solution to the poverty and social state of a large portion of the current DTES population?
__________________
. . . the third eye squirms when you do that . . .
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17603  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:51 AM
giallo's Avatar
giallo giallo is offline
be nice to the crackheads
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Shanghai/Seoul/Vancouver
Posts: 9,436
The federal government needs to step in, and allocate a decent budget towards mental health treatment. We need facilities to house these people. The fact that our most vulnerable are left to rot on the street, consuming unregulated drugs is disgusting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17604  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:53 AM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 36,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Having been away for 6 years I was shocked at how much worse the DTES has become when I drove through it this summer. Soooooo many more homeless laying about a far larger area than before.

I highly doubt that that many Vancouver locals have become homeless over the last 6 years... it’s almost as if the DTES is a magnet that attracts such people from far and wide and then the people of our city have to deal with it on their own...

What will be the breaking point?

It seems that people hate to admit it but there are obviously fundamental flaws in the extreme left approach to dealing with homelessness. This doesn’t mean we need to swing hard to the right, but obviously a more balanced approach is needed. Compassion but also discipline. Care but also rules.
Yeah its much worse. I don't know how much this contributes but I have a friend who works in a group type home for special needs adults on the island and he gets frustrated cause people will come from other provinces like Saskatchewan or Alberta etc and dump their adult kids at places like his cause they don't have the resources back in their home province. The numbers keep increasing and resources are stretched and there isn't much that can be done to stop it.
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17605  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 4:04 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 14,493
To both posts above, yes, this needs to be a federal issue. And yes, letting them rot in the streets is disgusting. We need hospitals, care units, and rehab.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17606  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 4:22 AM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
Reason and Freedom
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver/Toronto
Posts: 3,845
Has anyone posted renderings of the expansion/renovation currently taking place at the base of 333 Seymour Street?



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/sale...ncouver-office
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17607  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 4:34 AM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 15,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld View Post
It's to celebrate 70 years of CCP rule in China.

If you love organ harvesting, cultural genocide, stamping out human rights and massacring your own people, this event is for you.
Yeah seriously, what a shame the geyser didn't blow that display to kingdom come.

Who at City Hall approved this when two Canadians are being illegally detained by China?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17608  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:15 AM
mcminsen's Avatar
mcminsen mcminsen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Downtown Vancouver
Posts: 7,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Has anyone posted renderings of the expansion/renovation currently taking place at the base of 333 Seymour Street?



officedweller made one post about it on the 601 W. Hastings thread about a year ago. The only rendering I can recall seeing is the one you just posted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17609  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:35 AM
a very long weekend's Avatar
a very long weekend a very long weekend is offline
dazzle me
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: 94109
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Having been away for 6 years I was shocked at how much worse the DTES has become when I drove through it this summer. Soooooo many more homeless laying about a far larger area than before.
I don't agree. I was back in Vancouver in March of this year, first time in the DTES since 2011, and it feels very different. A far smaller area is given over to druggies now than in 2011, and far fewer shops service the lower class consumer (fewer pawn stores, bars, corner shops, etc). The difference I notices was that the opposite - that there were more druggie and crazy types in more parts of the city, that is, the problem had spread out of the rump of the DTES.
__________________
"Yes, we destroyed the planet. But in one brief, beautiful moment, we created tremendous value for shareholders."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17610  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:57 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
from the inside out
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
To both posts above, yes, this needs to be a federal issue. And yes, letting them rot in the streets is disgusting. We need hospitals, care units, and rehab.
Agreed.

I think we also need to realize that some people cannot be helped in the traditional sense. We need to start thinking about how to provide community to those at the very bottom . . . people who are beyond help for health, mental health, incurable addiction, low rationality, lacking self control, etc..

Don't misread me, the DTES is a terrible place, but it does point to some positives. It does provide a complexity and size that makes a weird kind of community that is terribly lacking in institutions. When my wife did her internship in psychiatry at Riverview many years ago, and before its full closure, I sometimes talked to a few of the more reasoned patients. It was shocking how many wanted to get away and run to the DTES. We need to learn from the few things that the DTES can teach us, so when we create future institutions of care, we don't repeat old mistakes. After-all, our track record of taking care of our weakest members is abysmal.
__________________
. . . the third eye squirms when you do that . . .
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17611  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:17 PM
cairnstone cairnstone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 879
I have worked construction DTES and it was more spread out before. We used to have security walk the Cordova side of our site during work hours as we would have the street people come onsite and steal threaten people, this was the city parkade that was built around 2002. You would sit at the Cambie patio and it would be a flea market of people selling you stuff all day long. From wheels of cheese to high end wines boosted to plumbing fixtures. YOu name it you could buy it. A block away you had to walk through the ghetto to get to skytrain. In front of woodwards and all down abbot was open drug use and sales plus other acts. Now I see it all condensed as gentrification has pushed this east and condensed it.


As for the homeless they are not local but are coming from all over. Scummy landlords have pushed some out in exchange for sponsored people that dont cause them issues. Our low rent areas are always evolving and people need to realize the state is not the ones responsible for there well being until then we will be the stopping ground for people looking for handouts.


I work with a few homeless trades people that choose to be that way. They are gaming the system and get away with it as Vancouver has little to no bylaw officers that do there job. So one lives by home depot on terminal in his RV. he makes 70 k plus a year. Another parks in different hoods till neighbors complain.

Look at the park board they have someone in charge that is worried about homelessness so wont deal with Openhimer park. If you let one set up a tent or one pot store, brothel to stay 5 more open up within a week.

20 years ago when we decided to go soft on stuff is when they saw the free ride light was on and they all have come.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17612  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:59 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairnstone View Post
I work with a few homeless trades people that choose to be that way. They are gaming the system and get away with it as Vancouver has little to no bylaw officers that do there job. So one lives by home depot on terminal in his RV. he makes 70 k plus a year. Another parks in different hoods till neighbors complain.
I have no issue with people doing this. They take care of themselves. It’s not a crime to find an alternative to paying our city’s insane rents. I made 80k last year and it’s still frustrating, paying too much money for too little space and no reasonable path to ownership. I can’t imagine the stress of those who also have a family to support on middle class salaries here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17613  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 4:00 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
Didn't the city have a break in that area like a year maybe 2 ago right around the same spot??? Also, I think the display has something to do with the Chinese fashion designer having some work on display at the Gallery soon.

https://www.straight.com/arts/110092...signer-guo-pei

I could be wrong also...
This article and exhibit are from 2018.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17614  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:33 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld View Post
It's to celebrate 70 years of CCP rule in China.

If you love organ harvesting, cultural genocide, stamping out human rights and massacring your own people, this event is for you.
What an ignorant and bigoted thing to say.

https://www.lanternfestivalmic.com/

https://www.lanternfestivalmic.com/p...stival-canada/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17615  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:41 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,233
Contributing to the DTES discussion:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...part-1.5248298


'It's getting worse and worse': DTES residents say neighbourhood is 'falling apart'

"It looks very intimidating for someone who hasn't been down here — It can look pretty crazy'
Jon Hernandez · CBC News · Posted: Aug 15, 2019 2:39 PM PT | Last Updated: August 16

Julie Louise Chapman tries her best to make Vancouver's Downtown Eastside a better place. The 18-year community resident writes poetry for the local street paper, Megaphone, aimed at reducing the stigma associated with poverty and drug use.

"It looks very intimidating for someone who might not be down here or hasn't been down here — It can look pretty crazy," Chapman, 50, told CBC News.

"To me, it's like that much more of a motivator to be part of the solution.

But after nearly two decades on the front lines — speaking for and providing support to local residents — she admits the notorious community seems to have taken a turn for the worse.

"The last two years have been the worst changes, I think," she said. "A lot of homelessness, a lot of drug use out in the open. You never used to see that at all, maybe not to that degree."

It's a sentiment that's been echoed by local politicians, police, community advocates, local business owners, and countless neighbourhood residents: the quality of life in the community — deteriorating for years as residents grapples with homelessness, poverty, and the ongoing opioid crisis — seems to have hit an historic low.

Growing pains

Among the most visible issue currently dividing the community is the growing tent city at Oppenheimer Park. Advocates say more than 200 people now live there.

Police have issued a public safety warning for the area, noting a sharp increase in violent crime. A man was shot in the area in July.

Meanwhile, many nearby businesses are struggling as a result of the encampment and want the park returned to its original form, according to the Strathcona Business Improvement Association.

"This will get worse," said Karen Ward, a community advocate and drug policy adviser for the city. Ward says the ongoing opioid crisis has instilled a sense of hopelessness through the community, and it's reflected in the behaviour of many residents.

She says the community used to be self-regulated, built on an unwritten code of ethics between residents that now seems to have dissipated.

"You don't rip off your friends. You don't mess up the place where you live. You don't hurt or take advantage of people who are weaker ... there was a code. You look out for each other — it's falling apart."

Like many advocates, Ward says residents inside the growing tent city are safer in Oppenheimer Park than they would be in the street, largely because there are more supports in place, including overdose prevention.

Despite rumours swirling within the camp, the City of Vancouver hasn't said if it intends to shut it down, instead claiming it intends to find living options for people living there.

Enduring

For nearby residents like Peter Soukup, the encampment is the latest symbol of just how tough times are.

"It's getting worse and worse to be honest. Crystal meth — a lot of young people on it. There's a lot of people using crack. You can buy it up the street, no problem," he told CBC News. "I'm immune to it. I'm used to it. I don't pay it no mind. I'm part of it — I'm here."

Soukup collects discarded recyclable containers from neighbourhoods throughout the city.

When asked why he, and many others, continue to live in the community, his answer was blunt.

"I come here for the food and the resources," he said. "You can eat every day and eat well without spending money. And then you can use your money to buy drugs."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17616  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:53 PM
Vanville Vanville is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 258
For those who wonder just how bad the DTES is, here is 52 East Hastings Google Street View May 2019:



Looking at a pleasant rendering of a proposal belies reality. I'm all for more social housing, however, how many drug addicts would still prefer to live on the street? Without some sort of impetus to quell their addiction we are probably not going to do much. Let's have a look at a shiny new project across the street, 41 East Hastings, part social housing & market rental completed last year:



So pleasant, & a studio is only $1300., so affordable. And it even comes with a nice new ladder presumably to escape "the big one". Looks like somebody has conveniently borrowed the caps from the fire standoff as well:


How much has been spent on this area over the years only to have it get progressively worse. The Shaldon Hotel which appears to have been renovated & is currently being used as housing is about to be replaced with more bland, institutional architecture. I still appreciate the older streetscapes of the area & would like them to remain. Too many older properties have been left to rot in the area in order to flip them for redevelopment (anyone remember the Pantages Theatre debacle?).

Seattle is dealing with the same mess: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

In the meantime there's a horde of logging trucks that are about to invade our city, then on Friday there's the climate change demonstrations, so many things to worry about these days. Anybody fix that Pacific trash vortex yet? I need to visit the DTES marketplace for a new iPAD & headphones to drown out all this negativity.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17617  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:59 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,233
Don't businesses and residents have the right to a clean and neat streetfront? Why isn't the City doing anything about this area? I think the City should come with dump trucks to remove everything here once they are brought in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giallo View Post
The federal government needs to step in, and allocate a decent budget towards mental health treatment. We need facilities to house these people. The fact that our most vulnerable are left to rot on the street, consuming unregulated drugs is disgusting.
Consuming ALL drugs is disgusting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17618  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 9:54 PM
osirisboy's Avatar
osirisboy osirisboy is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 5,668
It's not socially acceptable to be against adding more social housing here, which is the last thing this area needs. What happened to wanting to create housing for diverse income groups?

Also, it's not socially acceptable to question the wisdom in giving people who suffer from addictions money every month. Worse thing we could be doing. Not helping anyone but the drug dealers.

I think we can do a better balance between enforcing bylaws such as no littering etc and being compassionate. The least we can do is have a street sweeper drive up and down Hastings.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17619  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 10:52 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3,416
And the mayor's response is a handgun ban. Maybe they should move city hall down to Main and Hastings and then they would care about cleaning up the problem.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17620  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 11:03 PM
logan5's Avatar
logan5 logan5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mt.Pleasant
Posts: 5,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
To both posts above, yes, this needs to be a federal issue. And yes, letting them rot in the streets is disgusting. We need hospitals, care units, and rehab.
That’s a left approach too. Is left or right to allow people the freedom to destroy themselves?

Going to hospitals and rehab would have to be voluntary and I don’t think that will happen, so the other option is to charge drug addicts with a crime and forcibly confine them to jail. Very difficult issue to deal with.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Downtown & City of Vancouver
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:46 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.