DENVER | Transportation Thread

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeForever

United just announced that their previously seasonal service from Denver to London is now year-round: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/08/...round-flights/

I was hoping for a more exciting international flight announcement (maybe a direct to China or South America?) but this is what we got.

Still good news. This will be the first time United has ever flown Denver to London year-round. The new Frankfurt flight on United is also being flown this winter, so that means London, Frankfurt, and Tokyo are all daily, year-round on United from Denver.

It also probably helped United that Norwegian cut Denver-London this winter, though that was only being flown 2-3 times a week.

[TakeFive]

Seattle's 'microtransit' experiment drives people to light rail. Is it working?
August 22, 2019 by Josh Cohen - Crosscut

Four months in, ridership on the $3.2M Via service is reportedly exceeding expectations. If you’ve ridden light rail in the Rainier Valley in the past few months you’ve no doubt seen them: black vans with a blue Seattle skyline painted on the sides.

Called Via to Transit, the vans look like they could be an Uber spinoff. In fact, passengers dial up the rides through an app similar to any ride hailing service. But as the King County Metro Transit logo emblazoned on the door indicates, the vans are part of a county-run experiment with on-demand “microtransit.”

It’s far too early for the agency to declare victory, but so far, the service has exceeded Metro’s daily ridership goals and served up more than 70,000 total rides.

[TakeFive]

Traffic Is Awful And Yet RTD’s Ridership Is Down. How Would You Make It Better?
August 27, 2019 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR

[TakeFive]

Frontier Flying Higher

Barry Biffle promoted to president and CEO


Courtesy 9News Denver

After Frontier was bought out of BK and redefined as a low-cost carrier they seem to stumble and bumble along for awhile. Then they slashed routes out of DEN by ~40% while they refocused on creating new route clusters primarily east of the Mississippi. More recently they've built their service out of DIA back up towards 40% of Southwest but still below 30% of what United does. They've found a comfortable placement where all airlines can prosper.

After adding a bunch of new flights out of Newark recently it appears that Frontier is finished with growing their footprint according to an interview with the DBJ.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

Biffle spoke with DBJ after a Denver International Airport event held at the Milk Market in Lower Downtown Thursday afternoon celebrating Frontier’s 25th anniversary. Frontier drove nearly $10 billion in total economic activity in Colorado in 2018, according to a study by InterVISATS Consulting commissioned by DIA.

Biffle added that Frontier’s future growth at DIA and other airports will likely come in the form of more frequent flights rather than new destinations. “We already fly to 100 destinations nonstop, so probably we will add more frequencies than destinations,” Biffle said.

Courtesy Frontier Airlines

Earlier this month, Frontier officials greeted DIA passengers headed to Greenville, South Carolina, with its new mascot, “Powder the Polar Bear,” and offered “green-inspired” gifts to the passengers to help kick off the green campaign.

“Right now, if you look at what investors are moving towards, you know, socially responsible investing is a big deal and so regardless of whether we IPO in a year, or five years or 10 years, it’s going to become more and more important to be socially responsible,” Biffle said. “So clearly, we're already the leader from an environmental sustainability [standpoint] and we’ve got huge investments that we're making, for example, starting a women's network ... to ensure that the diversity is there so that we can make sure that we're the most socially responsible airline in the United States.”

I'm less concerned with Frontier's stature and growth at this point but pleased that they seem to have found solid profitability in the airline industry - since they are headquartered in Denver.

[twister244]

Ok, going to go on an RTD rant.....

Can someone please explain to me why RTD has such a fucked up pricing model when it comes to long-term passes? I am about to switch jobs to a Boston-based startup that doesn't really offer an EcoPass. As someone who commutes to Boulder (and will continue with the new position), I use the EcoPass extensively. However, RTD charges $200 for a comprehensive monthly pass. That equates to $2400 a year if an individual were to buy passes.

I contacted RTD about potentially seeing if I could buy an EcoPass on my own. But.... RTD will not allow that. However, they gave an estimate for what it would cost to give Eco passes to the ENTIRE office of 12 people for an ENTIRE calendar year, and here is what I was presented with:

"A full year your quote would be, $1,416 based off of 2019 pricing. Our contract minimum for your location is $1,368. The EcoPass is a discounted program where pricing is based off of utilization depending on business location and employee headcount. Because this is a discounted program, that is why all employees must been included, think of it as an insurance model. "

What kind of F'd up pricing model is this? It would literally cost me half to just chip in my money and get passes for the entire office as opposed to doing monthly passes on my own.....

Maybe I am missing a glaring sense of logic that justifies this, but jesus that makes zero sense. How does RTD expect ridership to go up when we have obtuse pricing like this? That literally equates to $10/month per person as opposed to $200 if any individual went out on their own to purchase passes.

[Denveropolis]

Originally Posted by twister244

Ok, going to go on an RTD rant.....

Can someone please explain to me why RTD has such a fucked up pricing model when it comes to long-term passes? I am about to switch jobs to a Boston-based startup that doesn't really offer an EcoPass. As someone who commutes to Boulder (and will continue with the new position), I use the EcoPass extensively. However, RTD charges $200 for a comprehensive monthly pass. That equates to $2400 a year if an individual were to buy passes.

I contacted RTD about potentially seeing if I could buy an EcoPass on my own. But.... RTD will not allow that. However, they gave an estimate for what it would cost to give Eco passes to the ENTIRE office of 12 people for an ENTIRE calendar year, and here is what I was presented with:

"A full year your quote would be, $1,416 based off of 2019 pricing. Our contract minimum for your location is $1,368. The EcoPass is a discounted program where pricing is based off of utilization depending on business location and employee headcount. Because this is a discounted program, that is why all employees must been included, think of it as an insurance model. "

What kind of F'd up pricing model is this? It would literally cost me half to just chip in my money and get passes for the entire office as opposed to doing monthly passes on my own.....

Maybe I am missing a glaring sense of logic that justifies this, but jesus that makes zero sense. How does RTD expect ridership to go up when we have obtuse pricing like this? That literally equates to $10/month per person as opposed to $200 if any individual went out on their own to purchase passes.

I totally agree with you and am in the same boat. Only 5 employees in my office and the minimum would still be cheaper.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by twister244

Maybe I am missing a glaring sense of logic that justifies this, but jesus that makes zero sense. How does RTD expect ridership to go up when we have obtuse pricing like this? That literally equates to $10/month per person as opposed to $200 if any individual went out on their own to purchase passes.

Are you sure that it's not $1,416 per participant? That amount annually for all 12 people seems way too low. IIRC RTD tiers EcoPass pricing based upon the number of organization participants. If you have 15,000 it's going to be cheaper than 12. My previous company had about 50 people participating and the the monthly EcoPass charge, of which the employee was entirely responsible for, was about $90.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Are you sure that it's not $1,416 per participant? That amount annually for all 12 people seems way too low. IIRC RTD tiers EcoPass pricing based upon the number of organization participants. If you have 15,000 it's going to be cheaper than 12. My previous company had about 50 people participating and the the monthly EcoPass charge, of which the employee was entirely responsible for, was about $90.

Yep.... The email thread started out with this:

"Based on 12 employees working at [blocked out address] in Boulder, the price for a September 1 start date will be $1,368. This is a calendar year program, so passes will be valid through December 31, 2019. This quote is for ALL employees, not per employee. Too, this quote is for the remainder of the year, not per month."

Which is even way more whacked out considering they aren't pro-rating things for starting in the Fall.

[Darius C]

Originally Posted by twister244

Yep.... The email thread started out with this:

"Based on 12 employees working at [blocked out address] in Boulder, the price for a September 1 start date will be $1,368. This is a calendar year program, so passes will be valid through December 31, 2019. This quote is for ALL employees, not per employee. Too, this quote is for the remainder of the year, not per month."

Which is even way more whacked out considering they aren't pro-rating things for starting in the Fall.

My reading of their email is that $1,368 is a prorated price for 12 employees for 4 months.

[TakeFive]

Some people are a little mobility over-protective


Courtesy Jessica Eldridge via BoingBoing

[TakeFive]

Credit: RTD via CBS4

RTD Wants Another Grant To Continue Driverless Shuttle Tests
September 10, 2019 - DENVER (CBS4)

RTD is asking for a grant to fund another self-driving shuttle test. The shuttles would run between the University of Denver and the DU Light Rail Station.

RTD continues to work to improve its driverless shuttle. The first test run of the automated electric shuttle picked up passengers at the Peña transit station and make stops within the Panasonic “Smart City” campus near DIA.

[TakeFive]

RTD is sending out notices on a daily basis about service disruptions like this one for the R Line:
Service disruption
Effective: September 10, 2019
Due to manpower issues, the following trips on the R line have been canceled:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...and-bus-routes

“It’s confusing,” said a rider named Larry. “It's not even a heads-up,” said rider Tonya Henderson. “You get the notice at the last minute.”

Henderson says she’s a loyal rider, but it’s becoming increasing stressful. She says drivers seem more rushed on their routes lately. “They’re not waiting for people,” Henderson said. “They should stay for a minute, so everybody can get on and not just close (the doors) so fast. People get closed in the door.”

Source

For its part, RTD fully admits it has a critical shortage right now. “Sometimes that means that we have to drop routes," Tonilas said.

“We have an operator shortage on the bus side and on the rail side,” said Pauletta Tonilas, assistant general manager of communications for the Regional Transportation District. “And it is impacting service at times.” RTD needs roughly 1,085 bus drivers and is 80 drivers short. Tonilas says they need 216 rail operators and are currently 50 short.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

RTD is sending out notices on a daily basis about service disruptions like this one for the R Line:
Service disruption
Effective: September 10, 2019
Due to manpower issues, the following trips on the R line have been canceled:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...and-bus-routes



Source

That means RTD has to offer higher wages, in order to attract more qualified candidates. They are finding more attractive employment elsewhere.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

That means RTD has to offer higher wages, in order to attract more qualified candidates. They are finding more attractive employment elsewhere.

Absolutely. But where will the funds come from to pay higher wages? Especially with vicious cycle of declining ridership coupled with increasing fares. Those self driving buses can't come soon enough, IMO (though seems like we're gonna be waiting a while).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

That means RTD has to offer higher wages, in order to attract more qualified candidates. They are finding more attractive employment elsewhere.

It's not that simplistic.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...and-bus-routes

Bus drivers tell Denver7 off-camera it's hard to retain good drivers because of “mandated” six-day work weeks, graveyard shifts and rude, sometimes aggressive passengers.

"It is tough because you start off with the shifts that aren't the greatest shifts,” Tonilas said. “But, you move your way up. These are fantastic jobs. They pay very well. You can start out at $20/hour."

At $20 an hour PLUS benefits, these are good jobs but like many jobs there's a phase of learning your craft, paying your dues and because this involves public transportation, you have to be able to pass a drug screen.

It's no different from the construction industry trying to find good employees. You need to find people who fit and want to work; for those who make a 'personal' investment both transportation and construction can provide solid income and security.

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Absolutely. But where will the funds come from to pay higher wages? Especially with vicious cycle of declining ridership coupled with increasing fares. Those self driving buses can't come soon enough, IMO (though seems like we're gonna be waiting a while).

Exactly!

I'd also be curious about how DTP which operates commuter rail and does their own hiring is faring.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It's not that simplistic.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...and-bus-routes

At $20 an hour PLUS benefits, these are good jobs but like many jobs there's a phase of learning your craft, paying your dues and because this involves public transportation, you have to be able to pass a drug screen.

It's no different from the construction industry trying to find good employees. You need to find people who fit and want to work; for those who make a 'personal' investment both transportation and construction can provide solid income and security.


Exactly!

I'd also be curious about how DTP which operates commuter rail and does their own hiring is faring.

You do realize that in Denver, at $20/hour, even working 6 days a week with 8 hours of weekly Overtime, you still have to have a second job, a second income (spouse) or a roommate? Many actually need two of those three options.

$20/hour x 48 hours/week (8 hours OT) = ~$1700/bi-weekly, after taxes. After any medical/insurance deductions and 401k contributions, you're talking only ~$1500/bi-weekly, for a net monthly take home pay of $3000.

So if you found something relatively affordable for $1200/month rent, that leaves you $1800/month for all other expenses. Subtract $800/month for food and grocery, $300/month for auto-loan, $100/month+ for auto-insurance, $100/month for fuel, $150/month for utilities, $100/month for wireless phone, $100/month for home internet, $50/month for streaming services (assuming they are cable-cutters) and that adds up to $1700/month, which leaves $100/month of remaining disposable income (assuming they carry NO additional debt load of any kind).

Now you can argue they shouldn't have TV, or internet or wireless service, but these have become necessities in today's society, so I'm going to assume everyone carries these expenses.

So even at $20/hour plus 8 hours/week of OT, a second source of income will be required in order to have any money left for additional debt, leasure/entertainment or emergency savings. Thus it is insufficient income for a middle class lifestyle.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

So even at $20/hour plus 8 hours/week of OT, a second source of income will be required in order to have any money left for additional debt, leasure/entertainment or emergency savings. Thus it is insufficient income for a middle class lifestyle.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US...f602/Denver-CO

The average hourly rate for a Retail Sales Associate in Denver is $11.43 per hour. This is 10% above the national average for a Retail Sales Associate which is $10.

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Deli...ies,-Denver-CO

The average salary for a Delivery Driver is $16.09 per hour in Denver, CO, which meets the national average.

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Secr...ies,-Denver-CO

The average salary for a Secretary is $15.33 per hour in Denver, CO, which is 17% above the national average

Looks like most restaurants pay kitchen workers $11-15/hour; front desk at hotels runs $10-12/hour; housekeeping pays $12-13/hour in Denver. Benefits vary but are typically minimal.

If I can make $20/hour driving for Uber (above average) I'm a happy camper and that's with no benefits. There's no shortage of drivers for ride-share.

There's a gazillion lower paying jobs that are filled; $20 an hour with full benefits is much better than lots of jobs in Denver.

[SnyderBock]

All of those workers are relying on at least one if not two of my above stated sources of income (spouse, 2nd job and/or roommate).

Also, most of those jobs are unskilled, entry level positions. The vast majority of those workers would not be qualified to operate buses or trains. Shouldn't someone who has the skill to operate a bus or train and hold the responsibility for the safety of all those passengers (and other people in other vehicles/pedestrians, which they have to safely navigate through), shouldn't they be able to live comfortably? Shouldn't they not have to work 6 days a week and still struggle pay check to pay check? Shouldn't they be able to save a little money each month and have some kind of upward mobility in society?

We have IT companies paying people 85k a year to sit in front of a computer and play clash of clans all day on their smart phone... Why is there this vast pay gap forming in our society?

RTD should put all bus and rail operators on a salary that starts them out at 60k a year, plus on-time performance benchmark based quarterly bonuses, full benefits and then also require them to work five 10 hour shifts per week (which has a 1 hour break halfway through their shift. So 9 hours of actual work per day).

If RTD did this, I do not think they would have a shortage. And if they ever did have a temporary shortage, they could just work everyone more hours per week, because they would be on salary pay.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

We have IT companies paying people 85k a year to sit in front of a computer and play clash of clans all day on their smart phone... Why is there this vast pay gap forming in our society?

RTD should put all bus and rail operators on a salary that starts them out at 60k a year, plus on-time performance benchmark based quarterly bonuses, full benefits and then also require them to work five 10 hour shifts per week (which has a 1 hour break halfway through their shift. So 9 hours of actual work per day).

One requires long-term training and constant continuing education. The other takes six weeks of training and then you sit on your ass and hold a wheel with two hands for two hours or so at a time. And you occasionally tell people to f**k off and get off your bus for trying to ride for free. It's like an Uber driver, which is paid shit as well. Neither is very demanding skill-wise, intellectually, or network building and that's what our society values. Hence why a business analyst is getting paid $85K a year, a mechanic gets $53K per year, a bus driver gets $43K a year.

RTD does offer it's union employees (drivers and mechanics) full health benefits, defined benefit pension, vacation, performance bonuses, etc. Sure, a 43% base pay increase would get more butts in the door, but that would also require a 43% across the board pay increase to get the union to sign off on it.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It's like an Uber driver, which is paid shit as well.

RTD does offer it's union employees (drivers and mechanics) full health benefits, defined benefit pension, vacation, performance bonuses, etc. Sure, a 43% base pay increase would get more butts in the door, but that would also require a 43% across the board pay increase to get the union to sign off on it.

Nicely stated.

RTD can be a decent career with all those benefits - which cost RTD a lot of money. While I can appreciate their current "bills," sadly too many have no clue what retirement entails and health insurance is only important when you need it.

Uber is like the opposite end of the spectrum. What many miss is that what you make is all yours. There's no withholding or other pesky taxes to worry about as the current 58 cents per mile expense that IRS allows should for 90% of drivers eliminate taxable income.

Know of a guy 'JD,' longtime car salesman with wife, 2 kids, who caught the virus of living off his credit cards, racking up a lot of debt. Started driving Uber several years ago (when you could make money more easily) driving a Ford Fiesta. Graduated to a good used Dodge Caravan which allowed him to use the XL platform for 6 or more riders. His income jumped to $65,000 which was a 224% increase. Next step he picked up a commercial license and insurance and last year his income was $85,000. He's now driving a nice lightly used "black car" qualified Lincoln Navigator as he transitions to private client business. He is the exception, not the rule however. Many of the Pros will use Uber's platform to fill in income on days when they don't have private clients or slow times when hanging out at a nice hotel isn't the best plan.

Ride-share is great if it's a side-hustle. Take a teacher who can make $1,000 a month net of gas costs. That can make two car payments with extra or one car payment and add to your two kids college fund. The fact that ride-share income is all discretionary $'s appeals to many who have the discipline to work the extra job & hours.

UofA Grad transitioning to life's challenges is a single dad and for now is relying on Lyft's rental car "Express" program for income and his only car transportation which is allowed. Lyft will pay like a Third or Half of each weekly rental depending on volume. He needs the flexibility to drop off and pick up his young child from school. He expects to find a good job in time.

People who have bailed on the corporate world love ride-share. One guy with car fetish wondered if ride-share could cover his hobby costs. Drove a couple of weeks using his Tesla; decided it was fun, productive; found a good used Prius for $10,000 and is covering his big insurance and registration costs for his many cars.

Chatted with a couple of eastern-Europeans who emigrated primarily for the benefit of their children to grow up in America. One uses ride-share to pay living costs on top of his wife's low-paying job; the other uses ride-share to help pay for his 1st HS graduate going off to college. Immigrants often make good ride-share drivers; they have the discipline necessary to make it work.

Phoenix is back to attracting loads of graduates (both H.S. and college) from all over the mid-west who arrive w/o jobs. Many use ride-share to pay rent etc until they find the job that they want.

As a full-time gig, ride-share is for the few; maybe 15% of average Joe's can make it work. Most struggle with the daily grind and need to find a job where they can be an employee.