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  #12181  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2019, 7:43 PM
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...state officials acknowledge there remains a $9 billion backlog in transportation-infrastructure needs.

... Front Range rail, that will create an “either/or” scenario with still-needed expansions of highways like Interstate 25 and Interstate 70 that could leave Colorado’s main vehicle thoroughfares even further behind where they should be.
lol. As if highways are the only "transportation-infrastructure need" with a backlog. And as if every other mode is not "even further behind where they should be."

We can debate the wisdom of how much money to spend on any given mode. But this whole mindset that highways are "real" and other things are "other things" is precisely why that old guard is increasingly being removed from power all over the country.
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  #12182  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2019, 9:13 PM
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But this whole mindset that highways are "real" and other things are "other things" is precisely why that old guard is increasingly being removed from power all over the country.
Well that gave me a laugh. Tell me about "all over the country." I'll give you a big assist by color coding the country.

I'll go with what I know.

Phoenix currently has 778 miles of bike lanes. Scottsdale has been a gold level city for being bike friendly for 8 years. Most of the East Valley which is generally more upscale is bike friendly. ADOT didn't pay one penny for of any of this.

Metro Phoenix is still building their way out of congestion. All modes aside, ADOT and their contractors do the heavy lifting but MAG supplies the juice courtesy of taxpayers. The Maricopa Association of Governments invests roughly a $billion per year. Matching funds come from both federal grants and ADOT. By itself ADOT couldn't do squat.

CDOT annual revenues are barely enough to keep the lights on. They have recently received added project specific funds. While shiny new things are nice that won't pay the annual light bill.

So long as they understand that CDOT is a State agency and not a City agency I don't care what they do. But given the recent efforts to increase funding which have not gone well do they think that monopoly money is the answer?
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  #12183  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 3:31 AM
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Downtown Denver: The Way Our Workforce Moves

I don't recall this being advertised previously. It was released in March and it's DTP's annual survey in this case from 2018.


DTP

Last year SOV's were tied with transit at 39%; the difference this year is increases in walk and bike percentages along with a six-tenths percent increase in ride-share/taxi. You can see the 2017 survey HERE.
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  #12184  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 3:46 AM
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More people on scooters than Uber surprises me.
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  #12185  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 4:22 AM
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It's spreading; 1st CDOT, now RTD

RTD is embarking on a two-year study to "Reimagine RTD.” For a recent brainstorming session they invited a Walker all the way from Portland to join them. I've never heard Jarrett in person; I wonder if he has a good sense of humor?


RTD Scores $11M In Grants To Buy More Electric Buses
July 26, 2019 By Nathaniel Minor/CPR
Quote:
The Regional Transportation District leveraged an $8.5 million grant it got in April of this year from the Volkswagen settlement program to secure another $2.6 million grant from the Federal Transit Administration on Friday.

The agency plans to use the two grants to buy as many as 17 new electric buses and charging stations, said RTD spokeswoman Tina Jaquez. The addition will expand RTD's current fleet of 36 electric buses, which Jaquez said is one of the largest in the country.
Here's a good liberal cause I can enthusiastically support.
Quote:
RTD pays a premium to power its electric fleet — 73 cents per mile over 46 cents a mile for a typical bus, according to the Denver Post. RTD's General Manager Dave Genova blamed a "demand charge" from Xcel Energy for the high cost, the Post reported.

The agency filed an appeal with Xcel's regulator, the Colorado Public Utilities Commission, but it doesn't expect any developments before September.
Streetsblog Denver has also covered the topic with a piece about how California has modified their rates to encourage electric vehicles.
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  #12186  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 5:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
More people on scooters than Uber surprises me.
Before I forget it, those Washington Nationals were very rude to my Rockies recently. Badly needing some home cookin' they got that tonight playing the Dodgers in front of a nice Monday crowd of 43,574. Rockies win 9-1.

With respect to ride-share that is hard to believe. The survey is voluntary? It could be that a lot of ride-share riders use the service some of the time while their primary mode would be something else?

Speaking for myself and with advice from the Pro's I don't 'intentionally' work rush hour trips. Other drivers do since you're guaranteed business and during the slow summer season (down here) it makes sense. For me, it's too hard to make a good per hour return. It's why I focus on airport trips; better tips with these too. A nice long ride from the suburbs to downtown is enough money to make it worthwhile though.
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  #12187  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 3:33 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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More people on scooters than Uber surprises me.
This actually doesn't surprise me that much..... When the scooters first showed up in Denver, I was like "Oh god... what are these stupid things?..."

Then I tried one out.... and I realized how damn convenient they are. I can hop on one from Union Station and get to my place in Jefferson Park for under $3. An Uber would cost me at least $7 most likely. Plus, given they go 15-20 mph, it doesn't feel that much slower than waiting for an Uber to come pick you up when you can just grab a scooter on a sidewalk and go immediately.

They work great if you live close to downtown and have an easy path to get from point A to point B. I have noticed trying to get to other neighborhoods with them (Cap Hill) can be a bit more complex.

Overall, I love them. One more thing pushing me to go completely carless. That and hearing about Bustang expanding to Estes Park, Loveland, Arapahoe Basin, and probably more ski places in the future..... yeah. It's a good time.
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  #12188  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 4:52 PM
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Well here's what they recently installed on 15th St looks like; Click and scroll. They are fugly but at least in this case the bike lane is wide enough for passing. But I can also understand why many riders do not like "protected" lanes.

It's one thing to design something on paper and quite another to cope with the limitations and even hazards in real life. In the Denver7 video a rider comes along who goes outside of the bike lane on So Marion Pkwy. Given the narrower bike lane on that street I can see how curb-barriers could be very hazardous when trying to pass someone - or just in general. Those barriers could send a 'distracted' bike rider flying off their bike.
I feel a bit as though the fact that protected lanes prevent bikes from leaving their designated space is an argument in their favor, not against them. If the middle-aged-men-in-lycra crowd doesn't like this, maybe that's just too bad. I have ridden all around Dutch cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam and personally feel they are fantastic. Their bike networks feel far superior to the one I grew up riding in Boulder, which actually has a "platinum" level rating for bike friendliness.

Does it sometimes feel a bit tight to pass? Sure, but this also has the affect of regulating speed. And there is nothing "on paper" about the Dutch system - it is quite real and millions of people use it all the time.
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  #12189  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I feel a bit as though the fact that protected lanes prevent bikes from leaving their designated space is an argument in their favor, not against them. If the middle-aged-men-in-lycra crowd doesn't like this, maybe that's just too bad. I have ridden all around Dutch cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam and personally feel they are fantastic. Their bike networks feel far superior to the one I grew up riding in Boulder, which actually has a "platinum" level rating for bike friendliness.

Does it sometimes feel a bit tight to pass? Sure, but this also has the affect of regulating speed. And there is nothing "on paper" about the Dutch system - it is quite real and millions of people use it all the time.
As someone who has commuted by bike and has also been the roadie in spanx, I think most road bikers will either slow down in the protected lanes, move out to the street itself, or take a different path. It's not really going to to just stop them from riding altogether.
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  #12190  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jbssfelix View Post
As someone who has commuted by bike and has also been the roadie in spanx, I think most road bikers will either slow down in the protected lanes, move out to the street itself, or take a different path. It's not really going to to just stop them from riding altogether.
Agreed - and on that point, it isn't the speed demons that we need to make happy. It's the "8 to 80," "interested but concerned" crowd that is currently not riding. The "fast and furious" cyclists are hardcore and are certainly not going to stop riding just because they aren't thrilled with these CRAZY new facilities.

That said, it is also my understanding that the law says that automobile lanes are legal to use as a bike facility only when no other bike facility is provided. In our current environment this doesn't seem to ever be enforced because there are SO many exceptions (including instances when a bike would like to merge across multiple lanes to share the left-hand turn lane with automobiles), and most cities that are trying to be "bike friendly" don't encourage their police to set up "traps" as they do for things like speeding or red-light-running for automobile drivers. In a system like the one in the Netherlands you rarely ever see cyclists riding in traffic, except on "shared streets" where that is the design intention.
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  #12191  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 7:25 PM
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I'm willing to believe more people use scooters than Uber. I just wouldn't have guessed it.

The ring of neighborhoods from which it makes sense to commute into downtown directly via Uber is probably pretty small. I can see how scooters make more sense for short peak-period trips. If you're only going two miles, then an Uber takes longer and costs twice as much. And if you're going more than two miles at rush hour then that's when transit is most competitive. You might take Uber to the closest transit station, but that would count as a transit trip for a survey like this.

But I'm not willing to declare it a widespread trend. It's one believable data point.
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  #12192  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
If the middle-aged-men-in-lycra crowd doesn't like this, maybe that's just too bad.
I always get a chuckle out of people using ageism in their argument. Survey says: great majority of Denver bikers are millennial's or < 35 years old.

The world has changed since I used to ride but one thing that hasn't changed is people's biological clock. Just speaking for myself by the time I reached 40 years old I rode more for relaxation knowing I was getting good exercise at the same time. At this point I was the one being passed not doing the passing. So far as lycra goes I don't recall it even being a thing but that was over 30 years ago and I wouldn't have been one to bother with it in any case.

I never rode in the streets other than to get to a nice trail like riding around Cherry Creek Reservoir. I have observed however how nice Scottsdale's bike lane system and street calming practices on collector streets work. I can't recall any "hard protection" however there are many areas where the bike lane goes off-road. In any case I'm referring to neighborhood areas and not a busy commercial area or an arterial road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I have ridden all around Dutch cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam and personally feel they are fantastic. Their bike networks feel far superior to the one I grew up riding in Boulder, which actually has a "platinum" level rating for bike friendliness.

Does it sometimes feel a bit tight to pass? Sure, but this also has the affect of regulating speed. And there is nothing "on paper" about the Dutch system - it is quite real and millions of people use it all the time.
Using the Dutch as an example is fine but Amsterdam is not anything like Denver.

I've done some research and conflicts between cars and bikes because they get too close to each other is not typical but would occur when the ROW's are rather narrow. Most crashes happen at intersections it seems or where driveways cross a bike lane at mid-block.

There's also a difference from being downtown and So Marian Pkwy. I'm unsure whether the same solution would work equally well in both locations. Btw, I'm not against protected bike lanes but I do see why others (much younger than I) wouldn't prefer them.
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  #12193  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2019, 8:35 PM
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I always get a chuckle out of people using ageism in their argument. Survey says: great majority of Denver bikers are millennial's or < 35 years old.
I'm mostly joking here - I could have sworn I heard this term thrown out in the past several pages of this discussion. Needless to say, there is definitely a contingency of bike riders who want to assert their space in the auto travel lanes. I just don't think we need to design our system around then. I will be more careful about my word choice in the future - I don't see this as an age thing.

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Most crashes happen at intersections it seems or where driveways cross a bike lane at mid-block.
I'll refer back to my original comment about protected intersections - the protected lanes are just one piece of a larger puzzle that absolutely includes intersection improvements.

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Using the Dutch as an example is fine but Amsterdam is not anything like Denver.
I'll just refer to my favorite quote from a recent McSweeney's article here.

"Now that we’ve heard from all the members of the city council tonight, I think we as citizens need to make a few things clear. The first is, we aren’t Madison. We aren’t Boulder. We aren’t Terre Haute. So when I hear a member of the council saying, “Well, Waukesha made a few small but substantive changes in such-and-such an area and the results have been very promising empirically,” what that council member fails to understand is that we aren’t Waukesha. We aren’t Tacoma. We aren’t Amherst. We aren’t Portland, Maine. Are we Scottsdale? No, we are not. And so all this so-called “evidence” about how policies have worked in other towns simply does not apply to us. No evidence applies to us. Our town exists in a fog of mystery and enigmatic strangeness, and nothing that happens outside city boundaries should have any bearing on how we govern or exist."
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  #12194  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 3:02 PM
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Could protected intersections at Broadway & Colfax, as well as Lincoln & Colfax, be a feasible option in the future?
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  #12195  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 3:46 PM
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Could protected intersections at Broadway & Colfax, as well as Lincoln & Colfax, be a feasible option in the future?
Interesting question. Colfax doesn't have bike lanes, and I don't believe they are planned to be put in either - which, given the ROW restrictions, probably isn't the best battle to fight anyway since they are already making big changes to get the new BRT line in.

One of the main benefits of the protected intersection is that it cleans up bicycle turning movements, keeping right-turning bikes out of the way of vehicles altogether, and staging left-turning bikes into two segments the same way a pedestrian uses two crosswalks to get to the opposing corner (in the absence of a "pedestrian scramble" crossing). I'd want to talk to a traffic engineer about all this, but it seems that many of these benefits would fall away if some cyclists attempt to turn into the vehicle lanes on Colfax. I wonder how many cyclists try to ride on Colfax, or if increased bike use on Broadway would induce more of them to attempt to ride there? I always think its crazy, but I sometimes see bikes riding southbound in the traffic lanes on Boulder's Broadway in spite of a two-way protected facility on the campus (east) side of the road. These are the "fast and furious" folks, and it is technically legal to do since no southbound bike facility is provided on the west side of the road.

Alternately, it could be designed so as to ignore bicycle turning movements on and off of Colfax completely. Boulder is also planning to build an intersection kind of like this on the CU Campus next year, though it is only for a one-way bike lane, so I'm not sure how the design would change for a two-way facility like the Broadway Bikeway. This design in Boulder has brought up many questions by the Transportation Advisory Board and local cycling advocates, because it is not a true Dutch-style full protected intersection (and presents some interesting challenges to the east at 28th Street), but it is in a really good location to test the central idea that these intersections will help mitigate right-hook car-on-bike collisions.
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  #12196  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 9:32 PM
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Speaking of East Colfax BRT.. More delays. CDOT/RTD need to take over this process and get it done from downtown to I-225. Zero sense having it drop off at the Aurora border.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/08/0...-denver-delay/

To their credit, RTD is doing stop improvements for the 15L currently. I think they know the city actually building BRT is extremely unlikely.
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  #12197  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 11:39 PM
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^ Yeah, they should take over the project they had no interest doing in the first place.
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  #12198  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 11:48 PM
mrturbo mrturbo is offline
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Doesn't make sense to spend money to have it dump off to status quo at Yosemite. CDOT owns the road, they're the only ones who could force it.
They're not interested in doing this project, but as Colfax is their road, they should be.
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  #12199  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2019, 1:48 AM
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Who’s going to force CDOT to take over a project to force Aurora to have dedicated transit lanes?

Aurora doesn’t want it (yet). CDOT doesn’t want it. You’re stuck with Denver building the biggest transportation project they have ever undertaken; on someone else’s road, in some else’s jurisdiction, with someone else’s service. It’s complicated, but doable.
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  #12200  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2019, 2:43 PM
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We need to focus more on bike/scooter infrastructure. I hear people shout "bring back street cars" but that's extremely expensive and probably less efficient.

Look how many bikes & scooters are out every day now with sub-par infrastructure for both. If you had dedicated lanes and parking all around downtown for both bikes and scooters, you'd reach a lot more people for a fraction of the cost. Plus, Denver could be the first in NA to have such an infrastructure for it's downtown.
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