Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Very simple. Derek Corrigan - though ironically pro-development - is opposed to almost every infrastructure project anywhere in Vancouver unless the NDP's given their explicit approval. He's opposed the Canada Line, the Broadway extension, the Trans Mountain pipeline, the 2014 referendum and the SFU gondola.

His city received 2 rapid transit lines thanks to a friendly NDP government, and will realistically never get any more. The poster child for "fuck you, I got mine". He also doesn't think homelessness or affordable housing is a problem Burnaby needs to worry about.

Really needs to turn in his NDP/left wing card.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

It s no longer the summer of 1970. Classes go three semesters everywhere.

Still, it's perhaps less that 10% of normal student load at the University one-third of the year. Beyond Arbutus, having a 3-minute frequency train system going to UBC serving mostly single family neighbourhoods is an overkill IMO. There should be plans to up the density even more before they continue the line there.

I think North Vancouver has a way higher population density to have a line going there from downtown than UBC.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Vin

Still, it's perhaps less that 10% of normal student load at the University one-third of the year. Beyond Arbutus, having a 3-minute frequency train system going to UBC serving mostly single family neighbourhoods is an overkill IMO. There should be plans to up the density even more before they continue the line there.

I think North Vancouver has a way higher population density to have a line going there from downtown than UBC.

Are you suggesting that the Skytrain never go to UBC?

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Run it elevated, it's Skytrain after all. That will lower the cost I'm told.

The NIMBYs at West Point Grey will have a word with you.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Still, it's perhaps less that 10% of normal student load at the University one-third of the year. Beyond Arbutus, having a 3-minute frequency train system going to UBC serving mostly single family neighbourhoods is an overkill IMO. There should be plans to up the density even more before they continue the line there.

I think North Vancouver has a way higher population density to have a line going there from downtown than UBC.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, transit shapes density just as much as density shapes transit; Cambie, Richmond, Burnaby and New West were also nothing but suburbistan before the SkyTrain came along. The City's planning to redevelop the Jericho Lands and Block F as we speak.

Agreed, North Van should get one too.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Run it elevated, it's Skytrain after all. That will lower the cost I'm told.

Technically speaking, it's entirely possible to elevate it west of Alma... politically speaking, as Firebrand pointed out, the NIMBYs would rather burn Point Grey to the ground before letting the "crime train" and all its "PS students" and "ethnics" through it, which is another reason why the M-Line's stopping at Arbutus for now. Best wait a few years, let the dust settle, then figure things out from there.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, transit shapes density just as much as density shapes transit; Cambie, Richmond, Burnaby and New West were also nothing but suburbistan before the SkyTrain came along. The City's planning to redevelop the Jericho Lands and Block F as we speak.


Technically speaking, it's entirely possible to elevate it west of Alma... politically speaking, as Firebrand pointed out, the NIMBYs would rather burn Point Grey to the ground before letting the "crime train" and all its "PS students" and "ethnics" through it, which is another reason why the M-Line's stopping at Arbutus for now. Best wait a few years, let the dust settle, then figure things out from there.

Large amounts of the region (and of the rest of the world for that matter) are pretty suburban. It doesn't need to be a dirty word. We can manage a little more density without destroying our suburban-ness. While I like towers, we don't need forests of them everywhere.

I just looked at Block F and the tallest towers are 18 storeys. While yes there will be some density, it's not going to be huge. I couldn't find anything beyond the basic info on the Jericho Lands so I doubt that's moved forward much in the last year. While part of me would love to see them build tall just to piss off the West Side, I wouldn't be surprised to see something along the scale of Block F proposed.

Getting the Millennium Line to Arbutus is 5-ish km - getting it from Arbutus to Blanca (the edge of the UBC lands) is another 4.6km. Where are we going to get the money for this??? We're going to have to wait a few years and let the dust settle while we pray for a pot of gold to magically appear at the end of the rainbow.

[twoNeurons]

An elevated line from Arbutus would be, let's be honest, pretty amazing to ride. The views would be pretty awesome. Pity it would be hard to sell it to the community.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[idunno]

I see no reason why the train would have to be tunneled past Blanca. The ROW is huge, and it would be a beautiful end to the journey across the city.

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by idunno

I see no reason why the train would have to be tunneled past Blanca. The ROW is huge, and it would be a beautiful end to the journey across the city.

The same reasoning that was used to ensure that Cambie (which at the time was much less dense than Fraser Highway is today, with a much wider ROW) needed to be tunneled South of 16th - that it was a heritage boulevard, which was transparently not the real reason.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

The same reasoning that was used to ensure that Cambie (which at the time was much less dense than Fraser Highway is today, with a much wider ROW) needed to be tunneled South of 16th - that it was a heritage boulevard, which was transparently not the real reason.

Cambie still sticks in my craw with regard to the fact that all of the people in a position to be effected by an elevated line south of the park...sold out to developers in the end anyway.

At least with regards to University Boulevard, there aren't Vancouver city elections to be won. It should be easier to elevate

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

"Technically speaking" they could elevate the entire M-Line. And the reason the line is ending at Arbutus really has nothing to do with Nimbys and everything to do with tunneling being Damn expensive.

They most certainly could not. Ever been to Broadway? The only way to get enough clearance for a guideway and stations - and for the track to turn at Brunswick or Alma - is by tearing down a whole lot of buildings.

Expenses are only part of the reason. TransLink could make a case for Macdonald or Blenheim... problem is that past Arbutus, the drop in density is inversely proportional to public opposition.

[DKaz]

They could remove a lane of traffic in each direction. Imagine the rage.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by idunno

I see no reason why the train would have to be tunneled past Blanca. The ROW is huge, and it would be a beautiful end to the journey across the city.

I don't know if the line would be tunnelled, on-ground or above ground on the UBC lands - and it's so far in the future that trying to budget for it is pointless. It's a safe bet that a tunnel wouldn't need to be a bored tunnel, which would cut down on costs.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They most certainly could not. Ever been to Broadway? The only way to get enough clearance for a guideway and stations - and for the track to turn at Brunswick or Alma - is by tearing down a whole lot of buildings.

Expenses are only part of the reason. TransLink could make a case for Macdonald or Blenheim... problem is that past Arbutus, the drop in density is inversely proportional to public opposition.

I think expenses is entirely the reason it'll be in a tunnel past Arbutus. West side residents have already threatened to sue if there's a train either on or above ground. Who knows what would come of that - but it would be bloody expensive to fight.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by idunno

I see no reason why the train would have to be tunneled past Blanca. The ROW is huge, and it would be a beautiful end to the journey across the city.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

The same reasoning that was used to ensure that Cambie (which at the time was much less dense than Fraser Highway is today, with a much wider ROW) needed to be tunneled South of 16th - that it was a heritage boulevard, which was transparently not the real reason.

The RFP only required tunnel to 46th or 49th Ave.
SNC Lavalin proposed tunnel right to 64th Ave.
Bombardier's proposal would have had a permanent open trench south of 46th or 49th Ave. (still decidedly "westside")

Originally Posted by Bdawe

At least with regards to University Boulevard, there aren't Vancouver city elections to be won. It should be easier to elevate

Yeah, it's essentially a University / Provincially controlled area that has resisted incorporation into a municipality.
I wonder if the Provicne forcing an elevated SkyTrain through it would tip the balance to incorporation?

From 2013, don't know if this has progressed any:

The University Endowment Lands — a patch of provincially run land on Point Grey, dotted with high-priced houses — might soon become its own mini-city. The approximately 4,000 people who live on that land, which isn’t part of UBC or the City of Vancouver, are frustrated they don’t have any elected civic representation.

The issue of who has control over land west of Blanca is fairly complicated. As it stands right now, the part controlled by UBC — which includes all the university-related buildings, and “University Town” neighbourhoods like Wesbrook Place — isn’t part of any other city and has no local government. Any decisions about what happens there are made by the university. The Endowment Lands, on the other hand — which covers all those older homes in the neighbourhoods east of Wesbrook Mall — are run directly by the provincial government, and they don’t have any local representation either.

The Community Advisory Council for the Endowment Lands, which hardly has any power right now but acts as the voice of people living there, voted at a December meeting to take the first steps to incorporate the area as its own municipality. This would wrest control of municipal services away from the provincial government.

“The Endowment Lands are managed by outsiders. The problem is there’s nobody looking after the people. There’s nobody paying attention to what the community needs,” said Council chair Ron Pears. “The people in Victoria don’t care. It’s not their job.”

According to Pears, this has been a long time coming. “It’s kind of a perennial subject,” he said.

...

http://old.ubyssey.ca/news/uel-incorporation-425/

[officedweller]

Nothing really that new:

These are the 6 stations of the Broadway Subway in Vancouver
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-broadway-extension-millennium-line-stations-vancouver

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Nothing really that new:

These are the 6 stations of the Broadway Subway in Vancouver
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-broadway-extension-millennium-line-stations-vancouver

It's a decent article to send to people who don't follow this obsessively.

Somewhat in the fantasy realm, but I really hope they don't literally follow the 99B stops for the rest of the route. Sure Macdonald and Alma as there are connecting bus routes - but then it's a longer stretch to Sasamat and a long stretch to any potential UBC stop(s). I'm all for putting a stop by W 8th and Courtenay St for the Jericho Lands redevelopment and then a stop at Blanca to tie in with the bus loop. After that they don't *need* to have it follow a road the whole way to the UBC bus loop.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Nothing really that new:

These are the 6 stations of the Broadway Subway in Vancouver
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-broadway-extension-millennium-line-stations-vancouver

The station location still located at Broadway/Oak. I still strongly think it should be a little further east from Oak, should be at Broadway/Laurel. It will be a disservice to the public and VGH staff to walk that extra block to board train, because majority of medical facilities are more south of Laurel. Public who needs to see doctor, day surgery, treatment etc are better served by Laurel/Broadway. If I am hospital staff who gets off 11:30 pm, I want to get onto train as quickly as possible. Oak/Broadway is not particularly convenient other than beneficial to potential neighbourhood condo developments later on. Please name it Hospital/Broadway station so that everybody knows to get off for VGH. IMHO

[trofirhen]

Planning to take the subway west to Arbutus as far west as Arbutus seems the practical option for now, IMO. Further than that means too much $$$ cost, and too much nimby upheaval.
Nevertheless, from what I've seen here, there is an ever-growing community, with aprtment blocks, the whole shebang; going up at UBC, and this is not all for students, either.
There are faculty, and other professional people of all stripes working and living out there; doctors, teachers, researchers, you name it; and their lives often dictate the need to travel
in and out of Vancouver. With bus connections to Arbutus would be fine for a decade or more to come, but it seems ultimately there'll be a call for rrt all the way.
Additionally, past Blanca, I don't think having it elevated on those ugly skyways is necessarily the the best thing, as they are unsightly and "gâche" the view. Isn't surface level acceptable?