[Surrey] Park Boulevard | 42 fl | 124m | Completed

[EhJay]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

2 bedrooms in Park Avenue were selling recently for $400,000 on the MLS. Likewise, 1 bedrooms selling around $330,000. These prices are way higher than Park Avenue, and it's done on purpose to target cash offers and speculators coming from a specific background.

There are still people who bought into hype and paid $365,000 for an upper floor 1 bedroom condo in Ultra back in the 2010-2012 presale stage, that has been selling well below asking for $320,000 or less since the building's completion in 2013. These investors are still playing the waiting came wondering when they can sell for asking.

In my opinion, once you're up to $400K for a condo in a city south of the Fraser where townhomes are not far off or about the same price, then irrational greed is the prevailing mindset of such buyers and they will be going very long in their position like some of those Ultra buyers.

Just saw a 2 bedroom in the Infinity tower go for over $500k. There's people willing to pay for it.

[w34lth]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Also means the days of cheap condo prices in Surrey Central are eroding. It was inevitable anyway. Heck I just got invited to an event in New Westminster for a new development. Townhouses starting at $700,000. That's New West.

Just picked up a townhouse @ summit in Panorama heights.

660k - 3.5 bed / 3.5 bath / 2 car garage w/ roof top patio.

Crazy to see New Westminster pricing like that.

http://hayerlifestyle.com/projects/summit/overview/

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by EhJay

Just saw a 2 bedroom in the Infinity tower go for over $500k. There's people willing to pay for it.

Must be penthouse, as 2 bedrooms listed currently are well below that price.



Generally anyone paying 400K for a 550 sq. ft. condo at Park Boulevard, may not realize they are paying well above market conditions, and it is reasonable they have unrealistic expectations about their return on investment.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by CoryHolmes

Why would that be "a kick in the pants" for other developments? Won't they look more attractive with lower pricing, or will they raise theirs to match?

Sorry wrong choice of words, I meant kick in the pants with respect to bump up for other developments. Yah wrong words sorry.

It will mean a boost in prices for other developments...

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

2 bedrooms in Park Avenue were selling recently for $400,000 on the MLS. Likewise, 1 bedrooms selling around $330,000. These prices are way higher than Park Avenue, and it's done on purpose to target cash offers and speculators coming from a specific background.

There are still people who bought into hype and paid $365,000 for an upper floor 1 bedroom condo in Ultra back in the 2010-2012 presale stage, that has been selling well below asking for $320,000 or less since the building's completion in 2013. These investors are still playing the waiting came wondering when they can sell for asking.

In my opinion, once you're up to $400K for a condo in a city south of the Fraser where townhomes are not far off or about the same price, then irrational greed is the prevailing mindset of such buyers and they will be going very long in their position like some of those Ultra buyers.

Don't bank on that. Average townhouse prices in much of Surrey are now over $550,000. My parents in Fleetwood in a 2008 built townhouse were assessed at $450,000 (and a few sold recently for higher in their complex) and we've been looking around Panorama (many going for $600,000+) and South Surrey / Morgan Heights (many going for $700,000+). So condos are still largely less than townhouses.

It's a trade off though, many of the townhouses in Surrey are nowhere near transit routes and if you work North of Fraser, commuting can be a pain. For example, took a look at some really nice 2000+ square foot townhouses out in Morgan Heights going for $700-850,000. But my wife would have a 1 hour 35 minute commute (1 way), need to transfer 2 buses and take SkyTrain to get to her work downtown. Compare that to right now in our townhouse in Surrey Central which is smaller but her commute is 45 minutes and she only takes SkyTrain. So if we wanted to move out there she'd need to get a new job. My commute doesn't change since I work SoF.

So you are paying for square footage really. Condos on the other hand are smaller, but the majority are being built near transit hubs and you can still reasonably commute to North of Fraser. So (as I argued in the housing affordability thread) you can't really compare the two as they fit different needs just like if prices for compact cars reaches the price of pickups, everyone isn't going to suddenly start buying pickups because why not.

[w34lth]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Don't bank on that. Average townhouse prices in much of Surrey are now over $550,000. My parents in Fleetwood in a 2008 built townhouse were assessed at $450,000 (and a few sold recently for higher in their complex) and we've been looking around Panorama (many going for $600,000+) and South Surrey / Morgan Heights (many going for $700,000+). So condos are still largely less than townhouses.

It's a trade off though, many of the townhouses in Surrey are nowhere near transit routes and if you work North of Fraser, commuting can be a pain. For example, took a look at some really nice 2000+ square foot townhouses out in Morgan Heights going for $700-850,000. But my wife would have a 1 hour 35 minute commute (1 way), need to transfer 2 buses and take SkyTrain to get to her work downtown. Compare that to right now in our townhouse in Surrey Central which is smaller but her commute is 45 minutes and she only takes SkyTrain. So if we wanted to move out there she'd need to get a new job. My commute doesn't change since I work SoF.

So you are paying for square footage really. Condos on the other hand are smaller, but the majority are being built near transit hubs and you can still reasonably commute to North of Fraser. So (as I argued in the housing affordability thread) you can't really compare the two as they fit different needs just like if prices for compact cars reaches the price of pickups, everyone isn't going to suddenly start buying pickups because why not.

Couldn't agree with you more. I picked up a unit in panaroma for 693k Gst Inc.

A relative 2 years prior paid 400k + gst in the same area.

[sumitsek]

So why is it that when I visited their sales centre twice they just told me it's not open yet even though sales were being made. I never once received an email till today stating they have just some homes left at 600k +. Sounds like they make all their sales privately and that's disappointing.

What's one got to do to attempt to purchase a condo (any project for that matter, this one is absurdly priced).

[EhJay]

Originally Posted by sumitsek

So why is it that when I visited their sales centre twice they just told me it's not open yet even though sales were being made. I never once received an email till today stating they have just some homes left at 600k +. Sounds like they make all their sales privately and that's disappointing.

What's one got to do to attempt to purchase a condo (any project for that matter, this one is absurdly priced).

How do you know that sales were being made? Or at the very least, public sales?

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by sumitsek

So why is it that when I visited their sales centre twice they just told me it's not open yet even though sales were being made. I never once received an email till today stating they have just some homes left at 600k +. Sounds like they make all their sales privately and that's disappointing.

What's one got to do to attempt to purchase a condo (any project for that matter, this one is absurdly priced).

You have to register and book an appointment to attend the sales centre. They'll just turn you away unless you are meeting a sales associate. When I attended the VIP appointment back in May for an early look, they already indicated that they wanted 25% down over 6 months for even a 1 bedroom condo. There were a lot of individuals at the VIP appointment (obviously scheduled at the same time to create panic buying conditions) and it is no surprise they would sell most units before full public release.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by w34lth

Just picked up a townhouse @ summit in Panorama heights.

660k - 3.5 bed / 3.5 bath / 2 car garage w/ roof top patio.

Crazy to see New Westminster pricing like that.

http://hayerlifestyle.com/projects/summit/overview/

Which floorplan?

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Don't bank on that. Average townhouse prices in much of Surrey are now over $550,000. My parents in Fleetwood in a 2008 built townhouse were assessed at $450,000 (and a few sold recently for higher in their complex) and we've been looking around Panorama (many going for $600,000+) and South Surrey / Morgan Heights (many going for $700,000+). So condos are still largely less than townhouses.

How does that compare to one bed room condo selling for $400K at Park Boulevard? You agree that you are getting a lot more sq. ft. even in an "average townhouse" in Surrey for $150,000 to $200,000 more than Park Boulevard. For a townhouse selling for $600K, for instance, the one bedroom condo at Park Boulevard selling for $400K is already 67% of that $600K townhome, but you get much less value. I agree the aspect of being close to transit and carefree living may justify the condo pricing, but in my opinion Park Boulevard pricing is for speculators, not transit users or for people looking to live close to amenities.

[CoryHolmes]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

but in my opinion Park Boulevard pricing is for speculators, not transit users or for people looking to live close to amenities.

Sad but brutal truth. We're no longer the desired target.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

How does that compare to one bed room condo selling for $400K at Park Boulevard? You agree that you are getting a lot more sq. ft. even in an "average townhouse" in Surrey for $150,000 to $200,000 more than Park Boulevard. For a townhouse selling for $600K, for instance, the one bedroom condo at Park Boulevard selling for $400K is already 67% of that $600K townhome, but you get much less value. I agree the aspect of being close to transit and carefree living may justify the condo pricing, but in my opinion Park Boulevard pricing is for speculators, not transit users or for people looking to live close to amenities.

Re-read my post I think you missed my point. You're right on this, but that wasn't the point I was making, I was making a needs vs wants point. Also regardless of what these are priced for, it will increase prices for surrounding condo units raising the overall perceived "value" of living close to transit in Surrey Central.

Prices are all about perception not reality. Wants vs needs.

But again please re-read my post as I was really commenting on the notion that townhouses cost less than condos which isn't the case, and that someone who buys a condo should really buy a townhouse instead because they get more for their money, which again is false because they still cost more and people can't necessarily afford it or need it.

You get more vehicle by buying a F350 pickup vs a Smart car, but not everyone needs an F350 pickup and they still cost more overall than a Smart car.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Must be penthouse, as 2 bedrooms listed currently are well below that price.



Generally anyone paying 400K for a 550 sq. ft. condo at Park Boulevard, may not realize they are paying well above market conditions, and it is reasonable they have unrealistic expectations about their return on investment.

Can you get the numbers for what all the listed units in your list actually sold for? List price is less important than what it actually sells for. For example, units in Verve have been selling for 15-25% greater than what they are being listed at.

So for example, your $299,000 1 bedroom that is listed at would only an indicator of current market condition if it sells for or around that listed price. If it sells instead for $375,000 then <-- that is the current market condition. So I'd be interested to see what these all actually sell for if you can see that.

Edit: After I posted the above, I just punched in the address and it says that unit (#1703) is actually listed at $349,999. So curious where you're getting your numbers. This is the list I see of units listed on MLS:

#4308 - 13696 100 Avenue (Park Avenue) - $709,900 [3/2 1006 sqft]
#2702 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $499,000 [2/2 844 sqft]
#1207 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $498,000 [2/2 899 sqft]
#2607 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $449,800 [2/2 900 sqft]
#3102 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $438,000 [2/2 844 sqft]
#908 - 13688 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $418,900 [2/2 766 sqft]
#2503 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $389,000 [2/2 766 sqft]
#1703 - 13618 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $349,999 [1/1 617 sqft]
#710 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $349,999 [1/1 529 sqft]
#1105 - 9981 Whally Bvd (Park Place 2) - $329,000 [1/1 577 sqft]
#506 - 13618 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $289,000 [1/1 579 sqft]

It looks like all the other ones on your list have sold which doesn't surprise me it has been a month since your post, so again I'd be curious to know for what because this next batch has upped the ante.

[sumitsek]

Originally Posted by EhJay

How do you know that sales were being made? Or at the very least, public sales?

In a earlier post on May 27 or 29 someone said they have begun sales. Also the email I received alluded to only 2 and 3 bedrooms remain starting at 600k +

[sumitsek]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

You have to register and book an appointment to attend the sales centre. They'll just turn you away unless you are meeting a sales associate. When I attended the VIP appointment back in May for an early look, they already indicated that they wanted 25% down over 6 months for even a 1 bedroom condo. There were a lot of individuals at the VIP appointment (obviously scheduled at the same time to create panic buying conditions) and it is no surprise they would sell most units before full public release.

I did register through their website. Perhaps the VIP invite is randomized or maybe they only invite if you select specific criteria during the signup. I only received an email talking about 2 & 3 beds remaining at 600k and up.

I guess I'm learning now how things go down so perhaps I need to go through an agent or how can one request an appointment?

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Can you get the numbers for what all the listed units in your list actually sold for? List price is less important than what it actually sells for. For example, units in Verve have been selling for 15-25% greater than what they are being listed at.

So for example, your $299,000 1 bedroom that is listed at would only an indicator of current market condition if it sells for or around that listed price. If it sells instead for $375,000 then <-- that is the current market condition. So I'd be interested to see what these all actually sell for if you can see that.

Edit: After I posted the above, I just punched in the address and it says that unit (#1703) is actually listed at $349,999. So curious where you're getting your numbers. This is the list I see of units listed on MLS:

#4308 - 13696 100 Avenue (Park Avenue) - $709,900 [3/2 1006 sqft]
#2702 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $499,000 [2/2 844 sqft]
#1207 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $498,000 [2/2 899 sqft]
#2607 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $449,800 [2/2 900 sqft]
#3102 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $438,000 [2/2 844 sqft]
#908 - 13688 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $418,900 [2/2 766 sqft]
#2503 - 9981 Whalley Bvd (Park Place 2) - $389,000 [2/2 766 sqft]
#1703 - 13618 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $349,999 [1/1 617 sqft]
#710 - 13688 100 Avenue (Park Place) - $349,999 [1/1 529 sqft]
#1105 - 9981 Whally Bvd (Park Place 2) - $329,000 [1/1 577 sqft]
#506 - 13618 100 Avenue (Infinity) - $289,000 [1/1 579 sqft]

It looks like all the other ones on your list have sold which doesn't surprise me it has been a month since your post, so again I'd be curious to know for what because this next batch has upped the ante.

Actual sales data is only obtainable through the provincial land title system and, even then, it only shows what price the property was registered for by the lawyer. Indeed list prices are a starting point; I think everyone knows that. There can be upward offers above asking but the actual percentage increase, no one would know. It's just pure speculation on that matter unless you can obtain the offer to purchase agreements.

It's a no brainer with unit 1703 either - they jumped up their price after seeing the selling frenzy around them. They never did sell - perhaps an indicator the prices won't really exceed a certain price ceiling for one bedroom condos as determined by market forces. Note, there are only two units left as per condosurrey.com which was what I screen captured in the previous post (it is not encompassing the MLS as you cite more units).

[osirisboy]

^Wtf is this?? Go to the real estate thread.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

^Wtf is this?? Go to the real estate thread.

Our discussion related to the unusually high pricing of Concord Boulevard construction presales by using Infinity 1/2 bedroom condos as a proxy for pricing in the area. You're the only one off topic by sniping comments at others and ducking away like the "boy" you refer yourself as.

[osirisboy]

This has been brought up before by others. This is not a real estate forum. However, There is a thread to discuss sales/ listing etc. And you guys can talk all you want about past sales