BC Political Discussion - BC Election 2017 May 9th

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by djmk

Wow, so untrue.

On a personal note, mining tanked in BC and I was stuck with a great degree with nowhere to go. However, I was thankful I was not homeless like all the patients that left Riverview around the same time.

At least Luv-a-fair was around back then

It all depends on what field you're in, doesn't it. If you worked full time in retail you probably could have afforded to buy at least a Vancouver condo in the 90's, no chance of that now.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by djmk

Wow, so untrue.
__________________
i have no idea what's going on

LOL...does your little saying above say it all????

[urbancanadian]

Well, I'm glad all this theatre is over. This all played out as expected to anyone looking at this from a non-partisan perspective or to anyone who didn't over-indulge in all the media speculation. Some people need to remember that the media have their own bubble where they get so deep into every single possible outcome that they start to over-analyze and become less rational. Which of course is intentional as it draws in viewership.

I'm looking forward optimistically to what I think are the most important issues being resolved: big money in politics, and a poorly representative system of government. I feel that these are overarching issues that extend to every other topic of debate in the province. I'm content to disagree with a government's actions if I know that they are making decisions on behalf of the people, and not just the rich or major corporations out of fear of losing future campaign donations.

My next biggest concerns over the last while have been the BC Liberals' lurch further to the right, and their increasing disregard for the needs of Metro Vancouver, both under Christy Clark. I'd like to see her step down and a more progressive, yet moderate voice take over. Someone who sees the potential of Metro Vancouver and is willing to invest more into our city without putting up a fight.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by djmk

However, I was thankful I was not homeless like all the patients that left Riverview around the same time.

You're blaming the NDP for shuttering Riverview?

[Waders]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You have to remember the Greens have a huge interest in making this work. They need to show non-majority government can work because if they can push proportional representation through,that's what we will have more often than not.

We will have to wait to see how well this NDP/Greens coalition can work.
Unplanned/Unexpected thing can happen that might cause the government to lose a confidence vote.

As for the electoral reform, 60.91% voters rejected the change in the last referendum held in 2009. A new referendum must be held for voters to decide. If the NDP government tries to push through the electoral change without a referendum, they will be punished in the next election.

[Metro-One]

There is more to social economics than just housing prices. BC is not without problems now (and housing costs do need to come down) but the 90s were worse than things are now.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

There is more to social economics than just housing prices. BC is not without problems now (and housing costs do need to come down) but the 90s were worse than things are now.

...so please elaborate with examples as to the nature of the crisis that existed in B.C. during the 90's! I suspect that there was an economic culture war between the NDP's (expensive) "socialist policies" and the capitalist elites who pushed back (against higher government tax payments) using the market paradigms of Voltaire/Adam Smith and Montesquieu as causative factors to justify cutting public sector costs in favor of private sector gains....kinda like privatizing profits (using government sponsored corporate welfare/contracts etc.) while seeking to socialize their corporate losses (e.g. letting the state find the dole/social welfare coverage for laid off private sector workers or state subsidies for low wage private sector workers etc.????

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

...so please elaborate with examples as to the nature of the crisis that existed in B.C. during the 90's! I suspect that there was an economic culture war between the NDP's (expensive) "socialist policies" and the capitalist elites who pushed back (against higher government tax payments) using the market paradigms of Voltaire/Adam Smith and Montesquieu as causative factors to justify cutting public sector costs in favor of private sector gains....kinda like privatizing profits (using government sponsored corporate welfare/contracts etc.) while seeking to socialize their corporate losses (e.g. letting the state find the dole/social welfare coverage for laid off private sector workers or state subsidies for low wage private sector workers etc.????

I have never read such left-wing ideological rhetoric herein since I started this thread way back. Akin to right-wing ideological rhetoric on the other side of the political spectrum.

So let me keep this succinct. Prior to the May, 2001 BC election, Van Sun political columnist Vaughn Palmer wrote a column about one then unnamed BC NDP cabinet minister who described the then political situation as follows... to paraphrase... "It's akin to the fall of Saigon back in 1975 when refugees headed for the rooftop of the U.S. embassy awaiting heli evacuation".

Final BC electorate verdict of the 1990's BC NDP gov't in May, 2001 election:

BC Lib: 77 seats
BC NDP: 2 seats

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

I have never read such left-wing ideological rhetoric herein since I started this thread way back. Akin to right-wing ideological rhetoric on the other side of the political spectrum.

So let me keep this succinct. Prior to the May, 2001 BC election, Van Sun political columnist Vaughn Palmer wrote a column about one then unnamed BC NDP cabinet minister who described the then political situation as follows... to paraphrase... "It's akin to the fall of Saigon back in 1975 when refugees headed for the rooftop of the U.S. embassy awaiting heli evacuation".

Final BC electorate verdict of the 1990's BC NDP gov't in May, 2001 election:

BC Lib: 77 seats
BC NDP: 2 seats

Here is the difference between you and me. I firmly understand the history of right wing thinking (from the ancient Athenians through to the neo classical thinking of the Enlightenment). I taught all this at the tertiary level possibly before you left diapers. To the contrary,...you have no clue of the CRITICAL roots of left wing thinking (whether from the Enlightenment thrusts of Jean Jacques Rousseau to Hegel/Marx/Lenin OR John Maynard Keynes who essentially designed the paradigm of Canada's New Deal program in concert with Britain's/the U.S.'s versions to bail out capitalism during the Great Depression! Hence, I'm not a crazy left wing ideologue/nutcase etc., but rather someone who can break apart complex socioeconomic constructs towards elucidation for the general "enlightenment" of the unaware layman/student! If ever you doubt my UNUSUAL academic capacities,...please test!

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Here is the difference between you and me. I firmly understand the history of right wing thinking (from the ancient Athenians through to the neo classical thinking of the Enlightenment). I taught all this at the tertiary level possibly before you left diapers. To the contrary,...you have no clue of the CRITICAL roots of left wing thinking (whether from the Enlightenment thrusts of Jean Jacques Rousseau to Hegel/Marx/Lenin OR John Maynard Keynes who essentially designed the paradigm of Canada's New Deal program in concert with Britain's/the U.S.'s versions to bail out capitalism during the Great Depression! Hence, I'm not a crazy left wing ideologue/nutcase etc., but rather someone who can break apart complex socioeconomic constructs towards elucidation for the general "enlightenment" of the unaware layman/student! If ever you doubt my UNUSUAL academic capacities,...please test!

So you are a one trick pony when it comes to left wing politics. Great!

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

So you are a one trick pony when it comes to left wing politics. Great!

LOL...is that what you think?? You'd be surprised how much you can learn here....so try to engage in a definitive discussion (on say macro/public sector economics) rather than just uttering nonsensical comment (one seemingly designed to "duck and run")....lol

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

There is more to social economics than just housing prices. BC is not without problems now (and housing costs do need to come down) but the 90s were worse than things are now.

I think people are dramatically underestimating how screwed our economy is in 2017 (in Vancouver more than BC in general). It helped some people get very, very rich, yes, but long term it's going to hurt us all. And the crash will probably be blamed on the NDP, just like we're seeing in Alberta.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I think people are dramatically underestimating how screwed our economy is in 2017 (in Vancouver more than BC in general). It helped some people get very, very rich, yes, but long term it's going to hurt us all. And the crash will probably be blamed on the NDP, just like we're seeing in Alberta.

You're so right......when the so called "free market" overheats and then collapses left wing type governments (if in office) are always the "fall guys"/scapegoats for such (capitalist) system failure...

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

You're so right......when the so called "free market" overheats and then collapses left wing type governments (if in office) are always the "fall guys"/scapegoats for such (capitalist) system failure...

As has been explained to you various times, there is no free market considering that there isn't even a free market with regards to the price of money.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I think people are dramatically underestimating how screwed our economy is in 2017 (in Vancouver more than BC in general). It helped some people get very, very rich, yes, but long term it's going to hurt us all. And the crash will probably be blamed on the NDP, just like we're seeing in Alberta.

Not to contradict, but out of genuine curiosity: do you see a "crash" coming? I ask this because many people see no real crash coming
- a sort of plateau out, perhaps - but no real "crash," as such.
What is your educated prediction for, say, the next five years, give or take? Do you think that there will indeed be a real crash, with home prices falling? If so by what per cent?
I'm just trying to figure out which scenario is the more probable ... an ongoing inflated real estate market, or one where things actually do take sort of a nosedive. Thank you.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Jebby

As has been explained to you various times, there is no free market considering that there isn't even a free market with regards to the price of money.

Jebby,...did you notice that I put the words ("free market") in quotes above? ....there's a reason for such caveat,...don't you think...re: as per your above deduction? Thus, the line of reasoning is that right wingers never honestly identify the underlying reasons for economic collapse/recessions/depressions in a capitalist system.....preferring to use such euphemisms as the "business cycle" etc. (without identifying government bail-outs as ongoing "solutions" in attempts to restart moribund capitalist economies towards upswing "booms")!

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Not to contradict, but out of genuine curiosity: do you see a "crash" coming? I ask this because many people see no real crash coming
- a sort of plateau out, perhaps - but no real "crash," as such.
What is your educated prediction for, say, the next five years, give or take? Do you think that there will indeed be a real crash, with home prices falling? If so by what per cent?
I'm just trying to figure out which scenario is the more probable ... an ongoing inflated real estate market, or one where things actually do take sort of a nosedive. Thank you.

...the problem here is that a "crash" could come from forces internal to Canada/B.C. etc. or from external forces in China or the U.S. under Trump's unpredictable/erratic policy actions....hence a difficult call to make right now.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Thus, the line of reasoning is that right wingers never honestly identify the underlying reasons for economic collapse/recessions/depressions in a capitalist system.....preferring to use such euphemisms as the "business cycle" etc. (without identifying government bail-outs as ongoing solution to restart moribund capitalist economies towards upswing "booms")

Look. You are from California. You now show up in this thread outta the blue. You have no understanding of BC politics. And you recite ideological left-wing rhetoric irrelevant to this thread. And then ya quote Marx and said ideology up-thread.

You are nothing more than a troll attempting to pollute this thread. Why don't you just f@#k-off? Honestly, I have zero-tolerance for internet garbage akin to yourself. You need to be flushed down the internet toilet.

PS. Go crawl back under the rock where you came from.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Look. You are from California. You now show up in this thread outta the blue. You have no understanding of BC politics. And you recite ideological left-wing rhetoric irrelevant to this thread. And then ya quote Marx and said ideology up-thread.

You are nothing more than a troll attempting to pollute this thread. Why don't you just f@#k-off? Honestly, I have zero-tolerance for internet garbage akin to yourself. You need to be flushed down the internet toilet.

PS. Go crawl back under the rock where you came from.

Please sir; nothing personal or anything, but whether you agree or disagree with someone, can't we keep the rhetoric here a bit tidier and more civilized?
Whether Caliplanner is right or wrong, talking to people this way - even if you are indeed angry - is really harsh, ugly, and lends a dark and uncivilized tone to the thread and the forum.
Thanks for your understanding.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Please sir; nothing personal or anything, but whether you agree or disagree with someone, can't we keep the rhetoric here a bit tidier and more civilized?
Whether Caliplanner is right or wrong, talking to people this way - even if you are indeed angry - is really harsh, ugly, and lends a dark and uncivilized tone to the thread and the forum.
Thanks for your understanding.

Oh come on. You are from France (originally from Van City). You enjoy discussing online politics with fascist FN types in France? Doubt it.

Sorry. I have zero tolerance from folk, outside BC, that attempt to pollute/interrupt this thread with either Marxist or fascist rhetoric. Are not from BC. Do not understand BC politics. And their entire M.O. is obvious just to pollute/interrupt this thread.

Definition of "internet troll".