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  #7821  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 5:21 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Does anyone know what's planned for 43rd and Chestnut? They are digging a mighty big hole there with nothing posted and I haven't heard anything.
according to permit it's a 60' high 5 story residential building with below grade parking
     
     
  #7822  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 6:04 PM
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Exterior work on the Hale building is FINALLY underway. A platform is hanging off the side with guys doing cleaning/restoration of the facade facing east.
"Let there be sung Non Nobis and Te Deum!"
     
     
  #7823  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:39 PM
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Target plans sixth smaller-format Philly store at Lincoln Square on S. Broad

Read more here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...lly-at-Lincoln-Square-on-S-Broad-St.html
     
     
  #7824  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:41 PM
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1700 Market getting a retail addition after slight delay?

Read more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/ri...t-getting-an-addition-after-slight-delay
     
     
  #7825  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:51 PM
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Is “Spring Arts” the Next Midtown Village?

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/property/2017/0...ment-cohen-grossman/#2g1imPPQmzaoD9XL.99
     
     
  #7826  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
according to permit it's a 60' high 5 story residential building with below grade parking
It is suppose to be a match to its ugly neighbor immediately to the east.
This is what we in the City do, tear down good solid 120 year old buildings so that some shit can be built. All thanks to the new zoning code. Another bright mark for city planners.
     
     
  #7827  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 12:43 PM
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It is suppose to be a match to its ugly neighbor immediately to the east.
This is what we in the City do, tear down good solid 120 year old buildings so that some shit can be built. All thanks to the new zoning code. Another bright mark for city planners.
its called the free market. Sorry. City can't be in the business is preventing the tear down of everything older than 50 years just because it's old.
     
     
  #7828  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 1:00 PM
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What was torn down?
     
     
  #7829  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 1:46 PM
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6 new pre-fab apartments going in at Farragut and Sansom this morning.

That brings the number of apartments built within 1-block of 46th and Sansom during the last year up to 103. There's room for roughly 21 more apartments. In total, this is around 320 bedrooms (the 40 unit is that ugly prison-like facility that is comprised of all 3-bedrooms, and most everything else is a 2-bedroom).



     
     
  #7830  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:10 PM
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its called the free market. Sorry. City can't be in the business is preventing the tear down of everything older than 50 years just because it's old.
This is why I am all for tearing down City Hall and replacing it with a 1-story corrugated metal structure that houses a mini Target and a Dollar General. Free market, right? Planning is for bozos.
     
     
  #7831  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:27 PM
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This is why I am all for tearing down City Hall and replacing it with a 1-story corrugated metal structure that houses a mini Target and a Dollar General. Free market, right? Planning is for bozos.
that's not urban planning. And CH is registered as a historic structure so it's protected. People don't seem to understand what urban planning really is or isn't. Zoning regulates land use and density- it's not a means to determine whether or not new buildings can be built were old ones stand. Cities and states set policies related to preservation but if you go to far than you have developers and others saying the requirements are onerous and hurting their ability to make money. So it's a balancing act. There are old buildings falling down all over Philly so I get annoyed when people hand pick an old building or two that are scheduled to come down and act like the world is going to end. So buildings can collapse slowly over decades all over North and West Philly and no one cares, but if a similar building is torn down to build a new 40 unit apt building folks get outraged and want to know how the city can "allow" an owner to tear down a building.
     
     
  #7832  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
This is why I am all for tearing down City Hall and replacing it with a 1-story corrugated metal structure that houses a mini Target and a Dollar General. Free market, right? Planning is for bozos.
The problem with your analogy is that the free market would NEVER build a one story corrugated metal building at Broad and Market. So try again.
     
     
  #7833  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
It is suppose to be a match to its ugly neighbor immediately to the east.
This is what we in the City do, tear down good solid 120 year old buildings so that some shit can be built. All thanks to the new zoning code. Another bright mark for city planners.
Immediately to the east? Do you mean west? Trying to figure out which building.

Also, what could the zoning code do to prevent this? That's not how zoning works. You can't completely prohibit demolition and redevelopment on private property.
     
     
  #7834  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
that's not urban planning. And CH is registered as a historic structure so it's protected. People don't seem to understand what urban planning really is or isn't. Zoning regulates land use and density- it's not a means to determine whether or not new buildings can be built were old ones stand. Cities and states set policies related to preservation but if you go to far than you have developers and others saying the requirements are onerous and hurting their ability to make money. So it's a balancing act. There are old buildings falling down all over Philly so I get annoyed when people hand pick an old building or two that are scheduled to come down and act like the world is going to end. So buildings can collapse slowly over decades all over North and West Philly and no one cares, but if a similar building is torn down to build a new 40 unit apt building folks get outraged and want to know how the city can "allow" an owner to tear down a building.
You don't see the difference between a long empty 2 story row house often surrounded by empty land located in a less then very nice neighborhood, and a occupied, reasonably unique, 4 story building in a very viable neighborhood?
Your make believe examples don't make any sense nor do they match any reality I know. We are not talking about tearing down a nearly dead, semi collapsing building in north or west Philly and putting up a 40 unit building. Time to open the eye balls.
And frankly I don't give a damn about hurting developers ability to make money, and I say that as one who is completely dependent on construction to make my living. There are many, many, many opportunities in Philly to be a builder, we are not any where near running out of usable land. Restoring and repairing buildings used to be considered the way to go; now its tear it down, put up some plain jane piece of junk.
Most, not all but most, developers could care less about the impact of what they are building to the immediate neighborhood and to the City as a whole. Witness the crap that is being build here along Chestnut St. Also someone above has pointed out the junk that has been built around 46th and Sansom. This is not a example of building a neighborhood, its a example of building private dorms because the colleges and universities won't/don't offer good affordable campus living options.
It pisses me off to a huuuuge degree when so called planners and other 'expects' take their own concepts of what would be good for the City and pretty much roll right through so called conversations with the neighborhoods; then several years later claim that they didn't realize the implications of the changes they brought about.
And yes Feliz, zoning does sometimes cause buildings, good buildings, to be torn down, witness Chestnut St. Prior zoning didn't allow the density (or height?) that these new junks buildings offer. So out with old, regardless of condition or welfare to the surrounding area, and in with the shit. There's money to be made, can't stop progress! To think that zoning doesn't matter is, well just foolish and not being willing to be aware of the obvious.

Last edited by City Wide; Apr 12, 2017 at 6:08 PM.
     
     
  #7835  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 4:40 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
that's not urban planning. And CH is registered as a historic structure so it's protected. People don't seem to understand what urban planning really is or isn't. Zoning regulates land use and density- it's not a means to determine whether or not new buildings can be built were old ones stand. Cities and states set policies related to preservation but if you go to far than you have developers and others saying the requirements are onerous and hurting their ability to make money. So it's a balancing act. There are old buildings falling down all over Philly so I get annoyed when people hand pick an old building or two that are scheduled to come down and act like the world is going to end. So buildings can collapse slowly over decades all over North and West Philly and no one cares, but if a similar building is torn down to build a new 40 unit apt building folks get outraged and want to know how the city can "allow" an owner to tear down a building.
I know how zoning works, thanks. I was commenting more on your free market quote, that anything can be torn down as long as it isn't designated historic. There is absolutely no question that the garbage that is being built/has been built on that block cannot hold a candle to what has been demolished. Philly is insanely short-sighted to be so willing to let these structures be demolished. We should absolutely demand that structurally sound, attractive buildings like this be rehabbed. To be clear, I have no problem in demo'ing old buildings that are on their last legs.
     
     
  #7836  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:05 PM
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It's a difficult argument. Ideally, what ever gets built will benefit the community. Obviously that is not the case, as everyone has a different view of what's good for the community. If I've invested in a property, I will generally want what happens to it to be up to me. Of course going into it from the beginning and understanding the community I'm investing in and the difficulties I will have.
Yes, it's a free market, but you have to do your homework & find out, not only what could be built but what should be built.
I feel that if a community doesn't have much left of "community", making the effort in saving the historic buildings where possible will only strengthen the community.
I would like to see something in place that keeps good buildings from being sacrificed for projects that never happen. That is definitely detrimental to the community and the city. When a developer offers up all the glitzy renderings doesn't mean they have any intention on building.
Tearing down should be the last step before construction begins, not the first step.
     
     
  #7837  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
You don't see the difference between a long empty 2 story row house often surrounded by empty land located in a less then very nice neighborhood, and a occupied, reasonably unique, 4 story building in a very viable neighborhood?
Your make believe examples don't make any sense nor do they match any reality I know. We are not talking about tearing down a nearly dead, semi collapsing building in north or west Philly and putting up a 40 unit building. Time to open the eye balls.
And frankly I don't give a damn about hurting developers ability to make money, and I say that as one who is completely dependent on construction to make my living. There are many, many, many opportunities in Philly to be a builder, we are not any where near running out of usable land. Restoring and repairing buildings used to be considered the way to go; now its tear it down, put up some plain jane piece of junk.
Most, not all but most, developers could care less about the impact of what they are building to the immediate neighborhood and to the City as a whole. Witness the crap that is being build here along Chestnut St. Also someone above has pointed out the junk that has been built around 46th and Sansom. This is not a example of building a neighborhood, its a example of building private dorms because the colleges and universities won't/don't offer good affordable campus living options.
It pisses me off to a huuuuge degree when so called planners and other 'expects' take their own concepts of what would be good for the City and pretty much roll right through so called conversations with the neighborhoods; then several years later claim that they didn't realize the implications of the changes they brought about.
And yes Feliz, zoning does sometimes cause buildings, good buildings, to be torn down, witness Chestnut St. Prior zoning didn't allow the density (or height?) that these new junks buildings offer. So old with old, regardless of condition or welfare to the surrounding area, and in with the shit. There's money to be made, can't stop progress! To think that zoning doesn't matter is, well just foolish and not being willing to be aware of the obvious.
so what metrics would determine if it's legal to tear a building down? Age only? Levels of gentrification in an area only? Whether the building was inhabited or empty? Did you realize the Comcast Center was built on a lot that was partially occupied by a fully functional, much smaller office building? Would that be allowed?

Zoning changes can enable new development of specific projects and that is typically done after meetings with the community and city council. But zoning in general does not prohibit buildings from being taken down which seems to be all you care about.
     
     
  #7838  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
I know how zoning works, thanks. I was commenting more on your free market quote, that anything can be torn down as long as it isn't designated historic. There is absolutely no question that the garbage that is being built/has been built on that block cannot hold a candle to what has been demolished. Philly is insanely short-sighted to be so willing to let these structures be demolished. We should absolutely demand that structurally sound, attractive buildings like this be rehabbed. To be clear, I have no problem in demo'ing old buildings that are on their last legs.
who is "Philly"? What are you talking about? The government generally doesn't tell owners of private land when and when not to build. Zoning dictates what CAN be built if they so choose, but I don't understand this inference that it's the job of government to approve or disapprove every decision made by a landowner. If an owner has a building that isn't protected and feels that land can be better used they are allowed to build on it. That's sort of the way it goes. Are you asking for the city gov to have a role in blessing EVERY building that comes out the ground?
     
     
  #7839  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
so what metrics would determine if it's legal to tear a building down? Age only? Levels of gentrification in an area only? Whether the building was inhabited or empty? Did you realize the Comcast Center was built on a lot that was partially occupied by a fully functional, much smaller office building? Would that be allowed?

Zoning changes can enable new development of specific projects and that is typically done after meetings with the community and city council. But zoning in general does not prohibit buildings from being taken down which seems to be all you care about.
You sound like you might believe 'in one size fits all', but I also think you're smart enough to know that's not the way the system works. A run down neighborhood with half its houses still standing is just not the same situation as 17th. and JFK. Period

A couple points:
IMO, we don't operate in a complete market system, and I'm more then ok with that. To me I believe ownership probably entitles one to build whatever is ALLOWED. So in my perfect world part of being "allowed" would involve more community input about the specifics not just about area wide rezoning. I realize that on these pages more regulation and more community input is going to fly like a lead balloon, and given the sick nature of gov't around here I understand why. But I also have experienced large parts of western Europe where planning works, where new and (really) old can live together (but there aren't the huge income discrepancies there that plague us here).
I don't claim to have worked the details out, but lets say along with ownership comes the responsibility to maintain the building. If one can't keep it up, sell it or give it away. And then building on top of that it would easier to say that ownership does not entitle one to tear the building down without having to jump through various hoops.

But as I said, I don't believe in the inherit goodness of the 'free market' nor do I believe we presently live in a free market. So I want better gov't and more of it, in that order.
     
     
  #7840  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 7:01 PM
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You sound like you might believe 'in one size fits all', but I also think you're smart enough to know that's not the way the system works. A run down neighborhood with half its houses still standing is just not the same situation as 17th. and JFK. Period

A couple points:
IMO, we don't operate in a complete market system, and I'm more then ok with that. To me I believe ownership probably entitles one to build whatever is ALLOWED. So in my perfect world part of being "allowed" would involve more community input about the specifics not just about area wide rezoning. I realize that on these pages more regulation and more community input is going to fly like a lead balloon, and given the sick nature of gov't around here I understand why. But I also have experienced large parts of western Europe where planning works, where new and (really) old can live together (but there aren't the huge income discrepancies there that plague us here).
I don't claim to have worked the details out, but lets say along with ownership comes the responsibility to maintain the building. If one can't keep it up, sell it or give it away. And then building on top of that it would easier to say that ownership does not entitle one to tear the building down without having to jump through various hoops.

But as I said, I don't believe in the inherit goodness of the 'free market' nor do I believe we presently live in a free market. So I want better gov't and more of it, in that order.
Obviously there are regulations about what can be built and you need that. When I say "free market" I am really talking about the landowner having the right to determine how to use their land. Generally, that is a good thing as long as they don't build something that will harm neighbors. But forcing landowners to keep buildings JUST because they are old is a stretch and could lead to all kinds of unintended consequences. I also laugh at the prospect that neighbors or community groups are fair and objective resources to consult about whether or not to build something. They have more than enough input under the current system and as you know there are many in Philly who don't want anything new built in their hood.

As for public input into zoning, I'm not sure how long you've been around but the code rewrite that started under Street had MANY public meetings and tons of community involvement so the assertion that the existing code was crafted by some know nothing officials behind closed doors isn't accurate. Sometime public input yields a result that leaves many unsatisfied, but that's the nature of compromise. That said, the zoning code isn't the primary way you go about preserving old buildings. Most people who are fans of the urban environment want to see more density in many parts of Philly, especially in areas well served by transit and walkable retail. Increased density is often going to lead to replacement or substantial changes to existing structures in areas that had not been properly zoned or fully exploited in the past.
     
     
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