New Downtown Calgary Arena

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Luk_o

For a city as big as Calgary, the Saddledome will need to be replaced for a multitude of reasons, plain and simple. If not now, in the near future so plan on integrating now into the inner city while there are still plots and options available. I do agree, however that a field house does not need to be part of a downtown plan, and McMahon can get away with a quality renovation based on the current tenants and its use - In all honesty I think having the Stamps play out of the permanently enclosed retractable bleacher field house will be horrible. Put the new arena on the greyhound site, but use the land for the field house portion for mixed use/residential. Develop land north of McMahon for city fieldhouse in the future, Stamps/Dinos stay at McMahon.

Such as?

Couldn't the Saddledome just get upgraded like Madison Square Gardens?

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Such as?

Couldn't the Saddledome just get upgraded like Madison Square Gardens?

The biggest is the design of the roof which effect acoustics and space for equipment for the bigger acts. Do we really just want to say as a city that we just wont be able to ever accommodate the same acts that all other major cities in Canada can?

Other larger items are building egress & flow / hall width, washroom capacity & egress.

These are not really possible renos like MSG given its current size / design.

Upgrading the standards of amenities and adding more / better boxes and improving all sightlines is also something that the Flames want to do, but not a really big issue speaking from the standpoint of your average sports fan.

I love the Saddledome and its unique elliptical roof, I hope that it will still be able to remain standing and useful in some capacity (although unlikely, given the operating cost) for dub games and NLL capacity crowds / standards I would completely agree that a replacement isn't warranted. It is just not to the standards where high capacity NHL games and big name concerts/events need it to be.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Such as?

Couldn't the Saddledome just get upgraded like Madison Square Gardens?

Didn't the last MSG upgrade cost over $1 billion? The only reason they do upgrades is b/c the location they have is so good. The Saddledome needs a different roof so wouldn't it be much easier and better just to build new? It and McMahon need to be replaced.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Luk_o

The biggest is the design of the roof which effect acoustics and space for equipment for the bigger acts. Do we really just want to say as a city that we just wont be able to ever accommodate the same acts that all other major cities in Canada can?

Other larger items are building egress & flow / hall width, washroom capacity & egress.

These are not really possible renos like MSG given its current size / design.

Upgrading the standards of amenities and adding more / better boxes and improving all sightlines is also something that the Flames want to do, but not a really big issue speaking from the standpoint of your average sports fan.

I love the Saddledome and its unique elliptical roof, I hope that it will still be able to remain standing and useful in some capacity (although unlikely, given the operating cost) for dub games and NLL capacity crowds / standards I would completely agree that a replacement isn't warranted. It is just not to the standards where high capacity NHL games and big name concerts/events need it to be.

Why not just throw a roof on McMahon and call it a day. There, now we have a concert venue.

As for the other issues...It seems like the Flames can smell public funding and are trying to find any excuse in the book against using the dome.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Didn't the last MSG upgrade cost over $1 billion? The only reason they do upgrades is b/c the location they have is so good. The Saddledome needs a different roof so wouldn't it be much easier and better just to build new? It and McMahon need to be replaced.

I agree. When my house needs a new roof and the government is willing to throw some money at me, then it will be much easier and better to just build new.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I agree. When my house needs a new roof and the government is willing to throw some money at me, then it will be much easier and better to just build new.

How are they going to be able to do major structural changes any cheaper than building new? Also, where would they play during major renovations? It's not like they could do what they want and need to do over the summer. As for the government money part of it, it would be ideal if the Flames ownership paid for everything but the city, etc. is going to get a lot of benefits so I don't mind contributing some money.

[RyLucky]

Firework absolutely should be developed... but the stadium is too important to go anywhere but the Downtown, and Downtown is too important to let the stadium go anywhere else.

[RyLucky]

All of the northern part of Barlow should be renamed and downgraded. A key part of that is to replace the memorial interchange with a simple diamond. There ought to be a better way to get between Mayland Heights, 17th Ave SE, Inglewood, Bridgeland, and Ramsay - and this has to involve developing Firepark, the Nose Valley adjacent to the science centre, Max Bell, and the areas adjacent to Deerfoot/the Irrigation Canal. Convince people to develop those areas and the entire east side of the city will see huge appreciation. But I don't think the stadium is part of that.

[craner]

When is the next update on plan A & B scheduled for - January ?

Did Justin tell Nenshi "it's not a no" today ?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by craner

When is the next update on plan A & B scheduled for - January ?

Did Justin tell Nenshi "it's not a no" today ?

Yes he did which makes holding off on a decision worth it.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Why not just throw a roof on McMahon and call it a day. There, now we have a concert venue.

As for the other issues...It seems like the Flames can smell public funding and are trying to find any excuse in the book against using the dome.

Just throw a roof on McMahon and call it a day. Lol. No biggie...and with the far better washroom facilities, concourse space & modern amentaties compared to the Saddledome, not sure why the powers that be haven't thought of this obvious solution.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Firework absolutely should be developed... but the stadium is too important to go anywhere but the Downtown, and Downtown is too important to let the stadium go anywhere else.

100%. Which is why it's important to integrate it in to plans now while there's still viable plot options available, and not 10 - 15 years down the road.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I agree. When my house needs a new roof and the government is willing to throw some money at me, then it will be much easier and better to just build new.

I take it with this comparison you are assuming the new roof on your house wouldn't involve massive structural modifications to the rest of your house to do so? This would not be a replacement of the roof in kind for the Saddledome like a house, the structure itself is elliptical with huge cost implications involved for a new suitable roof support design. And it's not just the roof, the other big issues are the concourses and adjacent space availible for washroom facilities. All of which would need to be addressed in the reno.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

There isn't a pressing need for a new arena right now but it's certainly something that should start being discussed as it is aging. By the time a new arena is needed, given how long it could take to sort out the details before shovels even get into the ground, it will be good to have a plan already in place.

IMO the Flames are trying to use Edmonton's new arena as bait to try and get the public on board with a new one for themselves, and trying to use that momentum to pressure the City into paying for a chunk of it.

Fortunately taxpayers aren't taking the bait. While they want a new arena, the general feeling is that they don't want to pay for it themselves.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Firework absolutely should be developed... but the stadium is too important to go anywhere but the Downtown, and Downtown is too important to let the stadium go anywhere else.

Agree 100%. The area around Firepark is a complete dead zone, so anything other than an office or light industrial development would be a tough sell.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Agree 100%. The area around Firepark is a complete dead zone, so anything other than an office or light industrial development would be a tough sell.

The area has some potential, what with an existing (and underused) c-train station and the possibility to extend a grid street system from Mayland Heights. There is unused land that could properly integrate the area with International Ave. It could eventually get a CMLC treatment, but only as a residential area with some light retail use.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Firework absolutely should be developed... but the stadium is too important to go anywhere but the Downtown, and Downtown is too important to let the stadium go anywhere else.

The irony there is that the stadium is not in downtown now, and in fact is further from downtown than is Firepark. Interestingly, the stadium is in quite the dead zone from an entertainment district perspective also - you can't walk to anything worth mentioning IMHO.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

The irony there is that the stadium is not in downtown now, and in fact is further from downtown than is Firepark. Interestingly, the stadium is in quite the dead zone from an entertainment district perspective also - you can't walk to anything worth mentioning IMHO.

It's pretty much the exact same distance now as Firepark would be (though Firepark is more of a direct commute), and the University area is slated for a ton of re-development in the near future while Firepark / Max Bell area has nothing I know of.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

The area has some potential, what with an existing (and underused) c-train station and the possibility to extend a grid street system from Mayland Heights. There is unused land that could properly integrate the area with International Ave. It could eventually get a CMLC treatment, but only as a residential area with some light retail use.

Firepark would be an interesting opportunity for a TOD type redevelopment, condos along the west edge of the site would have some pretty fantastic views!

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by suburbia

The irony there is that the stadium is not in downtown now, and in fact is further from downtown than is Firepark. Interestingly, the stadium is in quite the dead zone from an entertainment district perspective also - you can't walk to anything worth mentioning IMHO.

True, but I believe Rylucky was referring to an arena, not stadium. The Stamps only play 10 or 11 home games a year, compared to how many for the Flames? Much more important to consider the arena's placement within walking distance to a mainstreet.