Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by asies1981

New podcasts with both Becker and Biskupski. This is a close race.

I wasn't impressed with Biskupski after that interview. Her solution for Salt Lake City is unleashing the private sector by less regulations. We all know that's a load of bullshit. This city has very low standards for what things should look like and if things take forever to get built it's because they have financing issues.

She strikes me as naive when she talks about housing for lower income individuals and families. Like literally she's saying if we had less regulations and impact fees on the developers we'd have more housing. That argument sounds all too familiar when Republicans run on deregulating and removing taxes for the "job creators". Perhaps I'm more conservative than she is in that I don't want affordable housing at any cost (I want affordable housing, but I have standards), but she's about as right wing as they come when you get down to dealing with the private sector. We're a right to work state where we constantly build things below code by most standards in the construction world, her saying that we have these tight regulations insults my intelligence.

Her bus argument seems foolish when applied to reality as Becker alluded to, but I am glad it's putting pressure on the city to do more in shaping its plan for buses with UTA. That seems like a good result from this race.

Overall though, she seems like a whiner who wants developers to articulate our future instead of our planners and elected officials.

Her platform sounds like an incarnation of the comments section of the SL Tribune. And thankfully that isn't a proper representation of the people of Salt Lake City.

[jubguy3]

I don't really care about urban design anymore because Costco carries two entire additional aisles of cheese and bacon and its beautiful and I love Costco so much

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

I wasn't impressed with Biskupski after that interview. Her solution for Salt Lake City is unleashing the private sector by less regulations. We all know that's a load of bullshit. This city has very low standards for what things should look like and if things take forever to get built it's because they have financing issues.

All due respect, SP, I do like most of your posts, but as a person who deals with the sclerotic, retarded and broken planning, zoning and building depts in our fair capital city, I have to call out this comment. We are at an average of 8 weeks for first review of engineered drawings (which usually go through multiple iterations before approval). There is zero accountability in review and scant understanding of code at city offices. SLC has chewed up and spit out how many planning directors in the last decade? We're talking entire offices standing up and walking out. Impact and city fees can add up to $13k to $18k per door to a development's cost.

The proof is in the pudding. The vast majority of small business action is bleeding into SSL, WVC, Midvale and South Valley. In my given world (mostly food, beverage retail, production and service) we are having our asses handed to us by other municipalities. Massive outflight of talent and money because the city is so impossible to deal with.

You're obviously an urban planner of some sort, a noble profession that adds real value to our community. There are a great many of people slaving away at the city doing good work and fighting the good fight. But we run aground when our entire city is made of urban planner types, which zero personal economic accountability and no skin in the game. I read a lot about greedy developers on this forum (rather ironic given the name of this website). We need a change. While both candidates are weak, Ralph has had his chance and I'm ready for new blood.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Marvland

...We need a change. While both candidates are weak, Ralph has had his chance and I'm ready for new blood.

While you may be ready for new blood, Biskupski's not it.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Marvland

All due respect, SP, I do like most of your posts, but as a person who deals with the sclerotic, retarded and broken planning, zoning and building depts in our fair capital city, I have to call out this comment. We are at an average of 8 weeks for first review of engineered drawings (which usually go through multiple iterations before approval). There is zero accountability in review and scant understanding of code at city offices. SLC has chewed up and spit out how many planning directors in the last decade? We're talking entire offices standing up and walking out. Impact and city fees can add up to $13k to $18k per door to a development's cost.

The proof is in the pudding. The vast majority of small business action is bleeding into SSL, WVC, Midvale and South Valley. In my given world (mostly food, beverage retail, production and service) we are having our asses handed to us by other municipalities. Massive outflight of talent and money because the city is so impossible to deal with.

You're obviously an urban planner of some sort, a noble profession that adds real value to our community. There are a great many of people slaving away at the city doing good work and fighting the good fight. But we run aground when our entire city is made of urban planner types, which zero personal economic accountability and no skin in the game. I read a lot about greedy developers on this forum (rather ironic given the name of this website). We need a change. While both candidates are weak, Ralph has had his chance and I'm ready for new blood.

First of all, I'm just an angry person on the internet. Full disclosure. My opinions literally mean nothing. I'm not an urban planner; I'm a person who read Jane Jacob's The Death and Life and Great American Cities and received my answer that it's true.

Second of all, Salt Lake City wants to be a world class city. I'm thinking you've never done development in a city like Denver, Seattle or Portland, because I guarantee you we don't have their architectural standards when it comes to building reviews. We build a lot of basic shit. Seasons at City Creek is literally worse than Hitler.

As far as the proof being in the pudding. Lehi is an example of a shitshow. It's a lot like this forum; loosely moderated and often up to whoever can scream the loudest. Adobe builds this beautiful campus in a bad spot then an outlet store opens next door and wants to build a mega billboard that reminds those that pass by that it really is still just Lehi and Adobe tries to sue them to take it down. Salt Lake City doesn't need to let whoever build whatever to succeed. And no matter how you want to deconstruct history, we've always had people in public office mediating development.

I'd be willing to bet that we do have a lot of bad rules that are redundant, but people better tread carefully when they say they're gonna throw out the rules. And without them being very detailed about what exactly needs to be thrown out, I get very concerned. The city is moving toward more volume zoning and trying to break up the footprints of buildings vs. the type of thing getting built. I support that. And if a developer doesn't want to be part of a community vision for the area in question, they can build it in West Valley.

[gusam26]

Proposals for the 800- to 1,000-room hotel will be accepted until Dec. 4.http://www.sltrib.com/home/3019816-155/story.html

[Comrade]

Good thing she's likely to win. Becker has pretty much been a failure the last four years and I think he'd do a lot of damage if he were reelected. I'm so disappointed in him and really regret voting for him three times over his career. I've rarely regretted voting for anyone but Becker really has turned out to be a bad mayor.

Thankfully, most those who are going to vote agree with me. I don't know if Jackie will be the answer but it's really hard to imagine her doing worse than Becker has the last four years.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Thankfully, most those who are going to vote agree with me. I don't know if Jackie will be the answer but it's really hard to imagine her doing worse than Becker has the last four years.

Except for the part where Becker gained on her and surpassed her in the last polling conducted by Dan Jones Polling. Those attack adds and that political machine are doing their job.

[RC14]

Originally Posted by Marvland

All due respect, SP, I do like most of your posts, but as a person who deals with the sclerotic, retarded and broken planning, zoning and building depts in our fair capital city, I have to call out this comment. We are at an average of 8 weeks for first review of engineered drawings (which usually go through multiple iterations before approval). There is zero accountability in review and scant understanding of code at city offices. SLC has chewed up and spit out how many planning directors in the last decade? We're talking entire offices standing up and walking out. Impact and city fees can add up to $13k to $18k per door to a development's cost.

The proof is in the pudding. The vast majority of small business action is bleeding into SSL, WVC, Midvale and South Valley. In my given world (mostly food, beverage retail, production and service) we are having our asses handed to us by other municipalities. Massive outflight of talent and money because the city is so impossible to deal with.

You're obviously an urban planner of some sort, a noble profession that adds real value to our community. There are a great many of people slaving away at the city doing good work and fighting the good fight. But we run aground when our entire city is made of urban planner types, which zero personal economic accountability and no skin in the game. I read a lot about greedy developers on this forum (rather ironic given the name of this website). We need a change. While both candidates are weak, Ralph has had his chance and I'm ready for new blood.

To your point, the old Shilo Inn renovation was delayed, in part, because the city did not issue the permits on time. This had to have cost them allot of money and when it was completed everything was put together so fast I wouldn't be surprised if these delays helped create some of the problems building codes exist to prevent in the first place.

I think it's important to look at what is happening in Lehi. We can say we want really strict building codes and we should let those who don't want to build within the mold move to Lehi. The problem is, the more tech companies move to Lehi the more attractive Lehi becomes to other tech companies and the more important it becomes for tech companies to be down there. Hotels, restaurants, apartments and night life will follow.
I don't think the transportation infrastructure down there is built to handle that type of development and I'm not sure it ever can be. ..but that is not stopping companies from moving there.

Utah seems to be experiencing a tech boom and Utah county is the center of it. Not Salt Lake City. There is no reason for it to be anyone other than Salt Lake City. I think Salt Lake is doing something wrong.

[DCRes]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Thanks for posting. Very encouraging news. I posted a different version of the second one in the Sugarhouse Thread. Was there another development? You mentioned three, but I only see two here. And, would the Sugarhouse Thread be a better place to post these?

I think the second link had two developments in it. There is the multi-family project on the old Ritz Bowling site which is east of state street. This one is being done by Ivory Commercial. The second is the one on the west side of state between (between state and main) which is a multi-family building and a Winco Grocery store being developed by Boyer and Cowboy Partners.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by asies1981

New podcasts with both Becker and Biskupski. This is a close race.

Thank you for these. These podcasts (all podcasts) have earned you my support.

[brankrom]

Another one of Becker's so called "failures" gets national props again.



http://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/10/06/sa...rking-adds-bike-lanes-sees-retail-boost/

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by brankrom

Another one of Becker's so called "failures" gets national props again.



http://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/10/06/sa...rking-adds-bike-lanes-sees-retail-boost/

Biskupski doesn't like protected bike lanes because they "get in the way of parking."

I don't even think she visits downtown from her hill.

[Stenar]

What's happening in Lehi has NOTHING to do with SLC. The overwhelming majority of those businesses were started by Utah county residents and/or BYU grads who want to grow their businesses in Utah county because they live in Utah county and want work to be close to home. SLC was never even a consideration.

Originally Posted by RC14

...
I think it's important to look at what is happening in Lehi. We can say we want really strict building codes and we should let those who don't want to build within the mold move to Lehi. The problem is, the more tech companies move to Lehi the more attractive Lehi becomes to other tech companies and the more important it becomes for tech companies to be down there. Hotels, restaurants, apartments and night life will follow.
I don't think the transportation infrastructure down there is built to handle that type of development and I'm not sure it ever can be. ..but that is not stopping companies from moving there.

Utah seems to be experiencing a tech boom and Utah county is the center of it. Not Salt Lake City. There is no reason for it to be anyone other than Salt Lake City. I think Salt Lake is doing something wrong.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Stenar

What's happening in Lehi has NOTHING to do with SLC. The overwhelming majority of those businesses were started by Utah county residents and/or BYU grads who want to grow their businesses in Utah county because they live in Utah county and want work to be close to home. SLC was never even a consideration.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth to what you are saying. But, I think it is bit of an overstatement to say that it has nothing to do with Salt Lake City. I'm sure there are lots of other factors at play also.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I'm sure there's a lot of truth to what you are saying. But, I think it is bit of an overstatement to say that it has nothing to do with Salt Lake City. I'm sure there are lots of other factors at play also.

No, really. Not one of those companies was ever considering SLC. I'm quite certain of it.

[Orlando]

You state that as a fact. I don't think you know 100% that they never considered SLC. Though, I'm sure that your reasoning has a lot of truth to it.

[DMTower]

Adobe built where they did because the company they bought was already down there, and they didn't want to make it too hard on the existing employees. Where they built the new office is actually closer to SLC than it was before.

[Makid]

There are a few tech companies in SLC. Domo started in Utah County and while that is where they do have their headquarters, they also have offices in the Walker Center because they want to gain employees that don't like the suburban lifestyle.

Workday and InContact also have large offices in downtown SLC.

Back in the day, Access Software had their headquarters in SLC, this was before they were bought out by EA (Electronic Arts). They still have a decent sized workforce but are smaller than they have been before.

I do know that SLC is wanting to have more tech companies come to the downtown or adjacent areas.

I do think that we will see more tech companies take up residence in and around downtown SLC over the next few years. As demographics keep changing with Millenials wanting to be in more urban environments for both living and working.

This is one reason that Adobe has pushed for Trax to Lehi. Their employees Utah don't want to be in the suburban lifestyle much anymore and Trax will allow the urban dwellers the chance to still get to their offices.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Makid

There are a few tech companies in SLC. Domo started in Utah County and while that is where they do have their headquarters, they also have offices in the Walker Center because they want to gain employees that don't like the suburban lifestyle.

Workday and InContact also have large offices in downtown SLC.

Back in the day, Access Software had their headquarters in SLC, this was before they were bought out by EA (Electronic Arts). They still have a decent sized workforce but are smaller than they have been before.

I do know that SLC is wanting to have more tech companies come to the downtown or adjacent areas.

I do think that we will see more tech companies take up residence in and around downtown SLC over the next few years. As demographics keep changing with Millenials wanting to be in more urban environments for both living and working.

This is one reason that Adobe has pushed for Trax to Lehi. Their employees Utah don't want to be in the suburban lifestyle much anymore and Trax will allow the urban dwellers the chance to still get to their offices.

I agree. Tech companies were born in garages in suburbia. The people who started the tech boom were a generation of people who favored suburbia as a place to live and work. The nature of tech companies is such that they are always having to be very aggressive in order to lure in the finite amount of skilled workers needed to keep an office going or expanding. If the preference of millennials is to work in offices in urban cores, then companies will relocate to urban cores to have one more edge over the competition. This is especially apparent in Silicon Valley where poaching skilled workers is a constant. And we're already seeing this in San Francisco which is seeing a massive influx of tech jobs that are either moving from Silicon Valley or choosing not to expand in Silicon Valley and instead opt for new offices in the City. Many people in San Francisco are getting priced out by "the tech bros" (implying that the City has become less bohemian and a giant uncultured sausage fest and not in the fun kind of way like over in Folsom). Amazon.com is in the process of becoming the largest employer in downtown Seattle as they build their new downtown campus and lease existing office space surrounding it.

If we go back in time 10 years ago there were pretty much no tech companies in ANY downtowns. Denver has the Tech Center, we have the area of South Jordan/Draper down to Novell in Provo. I think millennials in every part of the USA are more inclined to prefer to live in more urban centers, but the magnitude isn't the same across the USA. We have a major cultural difference here based around being a niche of "family friendly" (both because of the LDS Church and people who come for their non LDS version of the same lifestyle). And that niche is much larger than the urban millennial niche. We'll see most of our growth in the suburbs in the next 20 years but at least they'll be built a little better than the suburbs that came before.