YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by rxp

Bloomberg news

Dont think they fly into Vancouver? why not? possible addition in future?

As I understand it, China generally follows a 'one airline one route' policy. For YVR, Beijing is covered by Air China, China Eastern serves Shanghai, and China Southern serves Guangzhou. I think YVR is unlikely to see Hainan Airlines unless this changes -- or unless they want to open up secondary cities.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

As I understand it, China generally follows a 'one airline one route' policy. For YVR, Beijing is covered by Air China, China Eastern serves Shanghai, and China Southern serves Guangzhou. I think YVR is unlikely to see Hainan Airlines unless this changes -- or unless they want to open up secondary cities.

Correct. For the time being only one Chinese airline may service an international route (outside of Asia at least). Sort of like the way Canada had international routes divied up between AC and CP until that became more relaxed as deals started to be made. However, there are exceptions such as MEL-PVG. The reason CA is allowed to operate MEL-PVG is each flight has to carry on to PEK which it does. MU and CA both serve this route. Sneaky way round it of course but unsure of the exact reason for this being allowed.

Despite what happens with Sichuan, having direct flights into PEK, PVG and CAN on the largest 3 Chinese airlines covers China almost entirely with just one stop. As for further direct routes into secondary cities still lots of potential for YVR. China growth has been slowing but still the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the future.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sneaky way round it of course but unsure of the exact reason for this being allowed.

Reason is simple: CA has always been the more favoured airline and have always been granted exceptions. Keep in mind CNAC owns 100% shares of CA, whereas this isn't the case for MU and CZ. Former executives of CA are CNAC executives but I believe there's a recent change in leadership and management by a former MU executive now (or in the future) so some rules may or may not change soon...

[trofirhen]

In another YVR-related vein, does anybody know of the status of the TWOV project?
It had earlier been stated in business articles that a decision would be made "by April."

[LeftCoaster]

^Dead. YVR has stated their preference is to route traffic through YYZ and build the South American hub through Toronto instead.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^Dead. YVR has stated their preference is to route traffic through YYZ and build the South American hub through Toronto instead.

Ha ha! Good one... yes it will be nice for this to get resolved once and for all then we hopefully won't need to rehash it every week.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^Dead. YVR has stated their preference is to route traffic through YYZ and build the South American hub through Toronto instead.

Bang! Bang! The horse is dead.
What I cannot understand is why YVR would prefer it to be YYZ, after all Claude Richmond said (?!?!?!) Seems odd.
Too bad, though. It would really have put YVR on the map ... unless this is a practical joke to shut me up, which I question .........

[Klazu]

Come on trofirhen. Even I can see that LeftCoaster is just having fun on your expense.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Come on trofirhen. Even I can see that LeftCoaster is just having fun on your expense.

Of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boy, did I win the boobie prize this time!!

[LeftCoaster]

Haha just kidding around. No implications about anyone shutting up, just having a laugh.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^Dead. YVR has stated their preference is to route traffic through YYZ and build the South American hub through Toronto instead.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Ha ha! Good one... yes it will be nice for this to get resolved once and for all then we hopefully won't need to rehash it every week.

All laughter aside, I wrote a note to Johnny about the Asia-South America connection, and he said that "bet your bottom dollar"
Air Canada will lobby Ottawa to block it.
The ONLY reason I can imagine is to get stuff routed through YYZ. Or am I wrong?
If that is NOT the case, why would (will) Air Canada be against, for example the YVR-Lima (on KE) connection to Lima, and maybe even MIA?
Is it just their YYZ fortress hub they want to reinforce? Or do they themselves (AC) want a piece of the action, or what???
Any insights on this? Anybody?

[Hourglass]

Trofirhen, it's not (only) about Air Canada building up YYZ, but rather about limiting competition and maximizing financial returns. Any business will use whatever means it can to limit competition -- many examples of this in the airline industry. Why would Air Canada want foreign carriers offering fifth freedom flights from Canada? If they DIDN'T lobby against this, AC management wouldn't be doing their jobs IMO.

This is where the regulator comes in: to balance the needs of the local carrier (Air Canada is by far the largest carrier at YVR and a significant employer in Canada) against local economic benefits + consumer needs (providing choice / encouraging competitive prices).

YVR and the local community need to make their case.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Trofirhen, it's not (only) about Air Canada building up YYZ, but rather about limiting competition and maximizing financial returns. Any business will use whatever means it can to limit competition -- many examples of this in the airline industry. Why would Air Canada want foreign carriers offering fifth freedom flights from Canada? If they DIDN'T lobby against this, AC management wouldn't be doing their jobs IMO.

This is where the regulator comes in: to balance the needs of the local carrier (Air Canada is by far the largest carrier at YVR and a significant employer in Canada) against local economic benefits + consumer needs (providing choice / encouraging competitive prices).

YVR and the local community need to make their case.

That you for that feedback. It clarifies and simplifies things a lot.
But when you reasonably justify limiting competion, is there not, if proven out (trial route & number crunching), justification for
YVR - Lima in and of itself? If no, drop the subject. It needs to be an overseas carrier with Fifth Freedoms, as you imply. Without it, the notion is dead.
If yes, and if Air Canada is going to lobby Ottawa not to permit such a route, why isn't Air Canada doing a YVR to Chavez route for connecting passengers? If they're not interested in providing such a route themselves, where's the problem exactly?
___
Sorry folks, for continuing with all these questions, but interesting stuff is happening, not only in Vancouver, and it piques my couriosity.
______
Case in point. Emirates is going from once daily Seatttle - Dubai to twice daily.

What market(s) are they (EK) serving to warrant the increase? It's worth it or they wouldn't be doing it.
OK. Dubai is probably minimally O/D. So what other markets are being served? India? Europe at cheap prices? What?
Imagine ANZ, YVR to AKL double daily. Never!! There would need to be air markets surrounding it of course, (which there aren't except maybe Australia and a few places like Fiji)

OK. what about the markets out of DBX that serve SEA.
Unlike AKL, there are a lot of destinations to be served out of the Gulf, be it QATAR, Etihad, or EK itself, as in this case.
What are these markets, where are they, and how does EK get so many passengers. Discount prices?
...........
Finally, is this an example of the recent alarm in the USA about Gulf carriers eating into US profits? Is Seattle impacted, and if so how? That 2x daily SEA - DBX seems to open a can of worms in terms of questions.

(as is known, QATAR once requested Vancouver and was refused. If it had been given the green light, where and how would it have eaten into YVR traffic?)

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That you for that feedback. It clarifies and simplifies things a lot.
But when you reasonably justify limiting competion, is there not, if proven out (trial route & number crunching), justification for
YVR - Lima in and of itself? If no, drop the subject. It needs to be an overseas carrier with Fifth Freedoms, as you imply. Without it, the notion is dead.
If yes, and if Air Canada is going to lobby Ottawa not to permit such a route, why isn't Air Canada doing a YVR to Chavez route for connecting passengers? If they're not interested in providing such a route themselves, where's the problem exactly?
___
Sorry folks, for continuing with all these questions, but interesting stuff is happening, not only in Vancouver, and it piques my couriosity.
______
Case in point. Emirates is going from once daily Seatttle - Dubai to twice daily.

What market(s) are they (EK) serving to warrant the increase? It's worth it or they wouldn't be doing it.
OK. Dubai is probably minimally O/D. So what other markets are being served? India? Europe at cheap prices? What?
Imagine ANZ, YVR to AKL double daily. Never!! There would need to be air markets surrounding it of course, (which there aren't except maybe Australia and a few places like Fiji)

OK. what about the markets out of DBX that serve SEA.
Unlike AKL, there are a lot of destinations to be served out of the Gulf, be it QATAR, Etihad, or EK itself, as in this case.
What are these markets, where are they, and how does EK get so many passengers. Discount prices?
...........
Finally, is this an example of the recent alarm in the USA about Gulf carriers eating into US profits? Is Seattle impacted, and if so how? That 2x daily SEA - DBX seems to open a can of worms in terms of questions.

(as is known, QATAR once requested Vancouver and was refused. If it had been given the green light, where and how would it have eaten into YVR traffic?)

Thank you for your time and consideration.

I don't know if it is true or not, but there were stores going around that the driver for the second flight was to get more cargo capacity. Apparently there are a lot of Boeing parts manufactures and stored in Seattle. Apparently there is an airline that needs a lot of those parts in Dubai.

JAL many years ago operated Vancouver - Mexico city. They probably still have rights to the route. There are a lot of 5th freedom rights that airlines have and they just do not operate them at all.

[Johnny Aussie]

Good evening (morning) YVR

Your inaugural AF 374 has just lifted off from runway 27L at CDG and is on its way!

Left gate Terminal 2E Gate M24 about 40 minutes late.

ETA about 15 mins behind schedule.

Enjoy!

[Johnny Aussie]

AF has arrived runway 08L.

Another year-round direct scheduled link to Europe commenced.

All the best with the route

... And arrived Gate D65 30 mins late.

http://twitter.com/yvrairport/status/582261339285929984/photo/1

http://twitter.com/yvrairport/status/582258892945526784/photo/1

[Johnny Aussie]

They are off back to CDG.

Just took off from 08R.... and that's a wrap!

Photo from YVR twitter just after pushback

http://twitter.com/yvrairport/status/582300629269291009/photo/1

[The_Animal]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

They are off back to CDG.

Just took off from 08R.... and that's a wrap!

Is this a daily or is this going to be weekly?

Wonder if they might consider putting their A380 on the route , but doubt it.

Nobody wants to send an A380 our way. Been wanting to fix one in my camera sights for a long time. Missed the test flight to YVR, been grumpy since.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by The_Animal

Is this a daily or is this going to be weekly?

Wonder if they might consider putting their A380 on the route , but doubt it.

Nobody wants to send an A380 our way. Been wanting to fix one in my camera sights for a long time. Missed the test flight to YVR, been grumpy since.

As I understand, AF to CDG will be 3x a week in winter, and 5x a week in summer. If the route goes over well, one could hope it becomes daily.
As for the 380s they need a bigger market. AF flies 380s out of YUL. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dirt_Devil]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

As for the 380s they need a bigger market. AF flies 380s out of YUL. Correct me if I'm wrong.

They don't fly their 380's to YUL anymore. Capacity between YUL and CDG is already huge.

Congrats for landing YVR-CDG by the way!