PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 186

summersm343 · #**3701** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 2:15 PM**

More on the hotel proposal

Would be 11 floors.

The Planning commission did not outright deny any chance of this happening, just denied the design and plan. The developer can reevaluate the plan and come back to the planning commission.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/06/2...cts-concept-for-warner-brothers-building

hammersklavier · #**3702** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 5:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mja

I'm not a fan of the United Fund building myself - just not that into brute concrete - but I know that in certain architectural circles that building is considered to be significant example of the Philadelphia School. I vaguely recall reading an article or an essay about it several years back arguing that it was more important architecturally than City Hall or something.

I'm not saying that I agree with all of that (but then again, neither am I a trained architect) but I think there's at least a case to be made. The Big Brother / Big Sister / NFL films building's sole claim to fame seems to be that it was the original location for NFL films, which is really cool, but I don't think that warrants preserving the structure.

Well it is somebody's pet building, I can tell you that.

On the Big Brother/Big Sisters building, I agree, it is handsome in that 1940s style, but that doesn't make it historical. All you really need is a marker there.

summersm343 · #**3703** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 5:51 PM**

Health Partners Plans, Inc. expands 70,000 sq feet at 907 Market.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...rs-plans-grabs-big-expansion-at-907.html

Insoluble · #**3704** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mja

I'm not a fan of the United Fund building myself - just not that into brute concrete - but I know that in certain architectural circles that building is considered to be significant example of the Philadelphia School.

Is this a real thing? I've never heard of Philadelphia School in terms of architectural styles. Do you have any more info about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef

Looks like I'm not just seeing things. The developer of the lot just north of the bridge wants to start in July.

It's the Delaware waterfront. I'll believe it when I see dirt moving. And even then, I recall at least one proposal from the last boom along the waterfront in which trucks began to move dirt around and the bloody thing still didn't happen. I do like this proposal better than the last one at least, so I hope I'm wrong.

cafeguy · #**3705** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:00 PM**

Your choice...

1. Space Needle and ziplining?

2. roof top european village?

3. Disney hole skyscraper?

4. douchebag gambling

That's all that's left!!!!!!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/philad...ational_drops_bid_for_Phila__casino.html

Philly Fan · #**3706** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Is this a real thing? I've never heard of Philadelphia School in terms of architectural styles. Do you have any more info about this?

http://articles.philly.com/1991-09-29/news/25802720_1_louis-i-kahn-architects-anne-griswold-tyng

DIESELPOLO · #**3707** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:02 PM**

Great critique, Inga (not being facetious, ya'll).

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef

Looks like I'm not just seeing things. The developer of the lot just north of the bridge wants to start in July.

Full article at http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...lin_Bridge_an_improvement__slightly.html

summersm343 · #**3708** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Your choice...

1. Space Needle and ziplining?

2. roof top european village?

3. Disney hole skyscraper?

4. douchebag gambling

That's all that's left!!!!!!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/philad...ational_drops_bid_for_Phila__casino.html

I think I would be happy with Provence or Market8 as long as they both build the entire project in one phase, not like Sugarhouse.

relnahe · #**3709** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:20 PM**

Not sure I have the stomach today to read an entire Inga article.

sayitaintso · #**3710** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:44 PM**

Penn NAtional Drops out: Economics no longer work. This hose is dead & beat

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/philad...ational_drops_bid_for_Phila__casino.html

Also interesting conversation with a developer in terms of gentrification. 1501 N 33rd old warehouse is being torn down and developed into 20 apartments in a "modern" style. Not big news from a size standpoint but the icebreaker of gentrification has cracked the tracks...

summersm343 · #**3711** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Penn NAtional Drops out: Economics no longer work. This hose is dead & beat

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/philad...ational_drops_bid_for_Phila__casino.html

This is basically a way of them saying: "we are not going to win the second casino license because our proposal sucks, but we're going to say we're backing out because of "economics" so we don't have to admit we we lost."

I think at this point now that I think about it, Market8 is probably the best proposal. It is right in the heart of where the majority of Philadelphia tourists are, so it will capture that market, and it is basically a hotel with a casino, restaurants, clubs, etc. attached. I think this proposal would probably work best, and if they make it all shiny and lit up, it will fit in perfect with the rest of the future of Market East.

cafeguy · #**3712** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 9:25 PM**

My guess is Market8 or the Space needle one. Last thing I read was how the entire committee doesn't understand why someone would drive into philly to gamble. They are all car commuters and thus, seem to be swaying for a south philly location. But hopefully, they realize that market8 is the best. Cheapest of the two downtown locations, only a single phase, and great location between the convention center and the historic district. Excatly the type of development they want on market east.

summersm343 · #**3713** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cafeguy

My guess is Market8 or the Space needle one. Last thing I read was how the entire committee doesn't understand why someone would drive into philly to gamble. They are all car commuters and thus, seem to be swaying for a south philly location. But hopefully, they realize that market8 is the best. Cheapest of the two downtown locations, only a single phase, and great location between the convention center and the historic district. Excatly the type of development they want on market east.

And served by both the Regional Rail line and the Market-Frankford Line as well as close by stops from the PATCO line and dozens of bus routes. Also close by stops from the Broad-Ridge Spur.

It's a no brainer.

ScreamShatter · #**3714** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 9:41 PM**

I'm not a fan of Market8 as I believe that location will develop into something better in the future. I also do not like the South Philly proposal as it seems like it would share the same crowd as Sugarhouse. Plus, that needle is going to look so weird that far away and I'm not sure that's really an area that we want to be a lot of attention too -- and could they not pick an original design for the needle...i mean, seriously...

From a business standpoint, I believe that The Province has the best business model. It is directly off the interstate, next to the Convention Center, has a theatre, caters to a wealthier clientele than Sugarhouse (so that they don't compete too much), captures the essence of a resort with a Casino which is something that Philly could use, etc. I know not everyone feels the same way, but business-wise, I believe it has the best argument. Most importantly, I think it feels a niche that Philly is sorely lacking with the slightly higher end urban resort. I really hope that is the selection as it makes the most sense.

cafeguy · #**3715** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 10:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I'm not a fan of Market8 as I believe that location will develop into something better in the future. I also do not like the South Philly proposal as it seems like it would share the same crowd as Sugarhouse. Plus, that needle is going to look so weird that far away and I'm not sure that's really an area that we want to be a lot of attention too -- and could they not pick an original design for the needle...i mean, seriously...

From a business standpoint, I believe that The Province has the best business model. It is directly off the interstate, next to the Convention Center, has a theatre, caters to a wealthier clientele than Sugarhouse (so that they don't compete too much), captures the essence of a resort with a Casino which is something that Philly could use, etc. I know not everyone feels the same way, but business-wise, I believe it has the best argument. Most importantly, I think it feels a niche that Philly is sorely lacking with the slightly higher end urban resort. I really hope that is the selection as it makes the most sense.

You are definitely right that the type of person going to the Provance is a different and perhaps better clientel to attract to the city than those who might go to Market8... but Summer is right about market8, its got a better location with MUCH more foot traffic than the inquirer building. Then, with patco, the EL, ridge spur, and the regional rails right there... its a huge score. Provance only has the broad street line. Suburban station is close, but not as close as market east is to...well... market east. As for driving... 8th and market is a quick drive off the BF bridge, 95, and 676... not as convenient as provance, but just a itty bit less convenient.

Baconboy007 · #**3716** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 10:31 PM**

The Province is too close to nice residential buildings with front doors that you can walk right up to. That area is nice enough and has enough going into it that it doesn't need the casino. You could make an argument that Market8 will develop on it's own as well but I think this would take up a nice block of emptyness and at the end of the day is a nice hotel to add to the area.

Is there any other city in America that would have something like this? Not including cities based off gambling.

ScreamShatter · #**3717** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cafeguy

You are definitely right that the type of person going to the Provance is a different and perhaps better clientel to attract to the city than those who might go to Market8... but Summer is right about market8, its got a better location with MUCH more foot traffic than the inquirer building. Then, with patco, the EL, ridge spur, and the regional rails right there... its a huge score. Provance only has the broad street line. Suburban station is close, but not as close as market east is to...well... market east. As for driving... 8th and market is a quick drive off the BF bridge, 95, and 676... not as convenient as provance, but just a itty bit less convenient.

Market8 has a good location for it's clientel. However, The Provence is an entertainment complex and resort. People going to a resort are not likely to arrive via public transit -- they will drive, fly, or take the train/taxi to get their hotel room. The point is that it gives Philly a much needed attraction for the more affluent resort crowd -- Market8 nor any other proposal will deliver that.

ScreamShatter · #**3718** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 11:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

The Province is too close to nice residential buildings with front doors that you can walk right up to. That area is nice enough and has enough going into it that it doesn't need the casino. You could make an argument that Market8 will develop on it's own as well but I think this would take up a nice block of emptyness and at the end of the day is a nice hotel to add to the area.

Is there any other city in America that would have something like this? Not including cities based off gambling.

Sugarhouse was built next to Fishtown/NoLibs which do have some nicer homes too and they have not seen a negative impact. Some of the best tourist attractions in New York, Chicago, Boston, and DC are near nice neighborhoods. And let's not forget, under your logic, Market8 is near one of Philadelphia's best neighborhoods of Society Hill/Wash Square/Old City/Rittenhouse/etc so both of those proposals are near nice areas.

If The Provence was targeting a lower income community then I would definitely take issue with the proposal, but it isn't. The Provence will capture a completely different market than Sugarhouse, Market8, etc. People from conventions and whatnot will be one of the main groups there -- and that is exactly what North Broad needs to get itself going. This is a real opportunity to have a higher end entertainment complex and resort in this city. Personally, it's long overdue.

Additionally, there is already major development going to The Gallery site. Let that play out. I don't hate the Market8 plan -- but I think The Provence offers some unique in Philly that I personally feel is missing. In the long run, it's the best decision.

Teakwood · #**3719** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 11:18 PM**

Regarding the Provence, I look at the Piazza and Liberties Walk to get a vague idea about the types of shops and restaurants that are likely to inhabit the area. It is an awesome concept, but without the right businesses, it just feels like a wasted opportunity.

ScreamShatter · #**3720** Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 11:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teakwood

Regarding the Provence, I look at the Piazza and Liberties Walk to get a vague idea about the types of shops and restaurants that are likely to inhabit the area. It is an awesome concept, but without the right businesses, it just feels like a wasted opportunity.

I definitely echo your thoughts about this. My other concern is that Blaisten has no real experience operating a casino -- which is a big issue. The saving grace of that concern is how the casino is almost a secondary note to the resort aspect of this plan so I believe he could find a 3rd party to operate the casino with no problem. Overall, I really think it has the best business plan. Market8 is a close runner up though, but the other plans fall short.