[Halifax] The Jade & Green Lantern (1595 Barrington) | Completed

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by alps

There's a great used bookstore in the lowest level of Maritime Centre (the Aliant building). Not John Doull's calibre but similar feel on a smaller scale. I like to promote this place to friends because nobody seems to know about it. I think it's called "Dustjacket Books".

There is a relatively new book store on Main st. in Dartmouth called Doull's Books. I'm not sure if it's the same owner or not but the name seems a bit too coincidental. I've never been inside but I've heard the selection is extensive.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

There is a relatively new book store on Main st. in Dartmouth called Doull's Books. I'm not sure if it's the same owner or not but the name seems a bit too coincidental. I've never been inside but I've heard the selection is extensive.

I think it's the same store. I remember reading about a plan to move the store to Dartmouth where the rents are cheaper.

In some cases, it's a sign of "health" when businesses move out of the downtown. If the area were in really rough shape rents would be lower and it would be easy for less profitable businesses to hang on. J. W. Doull was a great store though and it's too bad they had to move.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think a lot of the negativity has built up over the years due to disappointing progress on the street. We're not really in a slow period right now, but buildings under construction don't really help retail areas so Barrington is still at a sort of low point. It will only start to get noticeably busier when there are actually more people living in the area and more businesses move in. I can't imagine it staying like it is now when all of the new construction (including big residential buildings like the Bank of Canada and Roy) is finished.

If we look back to 2000 and earlier then I think the whole downtown area has improved a lot. The businesses along Barrington and Spring Garden are more upscale than they used to be, and there used to be a lot more eyesore properties in poor condition. 2005-2011 or so unfortunately was a kind of limbo period when demand had gone up post-1990's but where bureaucratic delays held the street back (HbD, the heritage district, and Nova Centre were all hugely delayed, and streetscaping on Barrington still hasn't happened).

2005-2011, almost the entire tenure of one Peter Kelly. At least HRMxD got done under his watch. That is at least something.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think it's the same store. I remember reading about a plan to move the store to Dartmouth where the rents are cheaper.

In some cases, it's a sign of "health" when businesses move out of the downtown. If the area were in really rough shape rents would be lower and it would be easy for less profitable businesses to hang on. J. W. Doull was a great store though and it's too bad they had to move.

Same store, but I've honestly never been back in since he left downtown.

It's located near the former Hooters and situated beside a strip club. It's not a very nice area.

I can't see how anyone would call that an improvement. I'm sure rent is much cheaper, but I can't see it surviving there.

I'm guessing over time the book selection will also suffer, because they don't get the natural yearly in flux of great books from university students selling off, or trading.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yeah, but I think they're hopeful they'll find a buyer. I like it because it's got a good local section and is more lit-focused than a Coles or something, though the scale is similar. A better browsing store, for sure.

A big bookstore downtown would be great--I don't know if it's going to happen though. Even Calgary doesn't have one (they had a great store called McNally Robinson years ago, but it closed. Now all that's left is a little Indigo "spirit" store that mainly exists to unload discount calendars and discounted hardcovers.)

I fear that the cities that already have proper bookstores downtown are going to lose them, and the cities that don't just...won't.

Agree -- Bookmark was *waaay* better than a regular Coles. I could actually spend time in there, browsing books that I'd consider buying. Not just a bunch of fancy calendars, sports magazines, and cook books.

As for big bookstores, I'm not sure if I'm ready to eulogize book stores just yet. E-books are widely available now, and often cheaper to purchase, but people still, by large majorities, prefer physical books. People like having libraries. I do too. I think if book stores like Chapters/Indigo are smart, they'll diversify income streams by signing smart e-book distribution deals, leverage online sales, offer a few more products that complement books (Chapters/Indigo does this), and ensuring wide selection, Indigo/Chapters will remain a relatively profitably business. And they need to focus on urban markets, not try to out-Amazon Amazon. They can't. Margins, of course, won't be huge. But it'll make money.

Check it (and note the print business growth was up as well!):

Indigo Reports Q3 Revenue up 3.0%: Online Revenues at Record Level, Significant Growth in General Merchandise

Indigo Books & Music Inc. (TSX: IDG), Canada’s largest book, gift and specialty toy retailer reported 3.0% growth in revenue for its third quarter ended December 28, 2013. Revenue for the quarter was $332.4 million, up $9.8 million from the previous year driven by double-digit growth in its lifestyle, paper, and toy businesses and new revenue from its recently launched !ndigotech™ business. Additionally, the Company experienced growth in its print business due to a strong line-up of hit titles. The revenue growth was achieved despite the Company operating eight fewer small format stores and one less superstore compared to the same time last year.

On a comparable store basis, Indigo and Chapters superstores posted a 2.6% increase in revenue, while Coles and Indigospirit small format store revenues were up 0.5%. Online sales increased 19.3% to a record $41.5 million, up from $34.8 million for the same period last year.

IMHO, Chapters should shed "small format" Coles/Spirit stores (leave that to indie sellers) and develop more urban based large format stores, as they sell better.

Link: http://static.indigoimages.ca/2012/c...essRelease.pdf

[counterfactual]

And we're off topic...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I can't see how anyone would call that an improvement. I'm sure rent is much cheaper, but I can't see it surviving there.

Maybe the plan is just to sell off inventory for a while.

[Alex Hawk]

Thanks Drybrain for your refreshing opinions. I think we may need to clear up some misconceptions put out there by counterfactual and xanaxanax (your alias sounds like an anti-depression drug!) My post is a little lengthy but sure as hell trumps the scratch the surface comments.

I’ve been following Barrington Street situation for a long time and of course the Discovery Centre move. I’m a family member of the Discovery Centre and a science teacher with four small children. I go 2-3 times a month. We’re so excited for the New Discovery Centre on the waterfront. There will be a cluster of arts, science, the Farmers Market and Pier 21! What a slam dunk for tourism and all Nova Scotians!

I can also tell you there’s no better place to take your kids to educate them and have fun as a family. There's nowhere else to take your kids in Halifax for safe educational fun. Yes there’s sportsplexes and hockey rinks but what about training your mind and building confidence in future technologies. The front desk staff told me they have over 100,000 visitors a year and go all over the province to help rural schools get access to the latest science and math learning. At $10 a head for admission that seems like a good business model to me!

And to xanaxanax and counterfactual. How many $20m projects have you developed? Maybe there were some government and private donation announcements but anybody that’s dealt with government funding announcements (I’ve had some research grants) knows that’s just the beginning of a long negotiating process. Contracts thick as your heads need to be negotiated and signed before any cash flows or financing can take place. This can take months if not years! Look at the the new HRM library. That’s almost all government money and it took 15 years to start construction. Talk to the management of the library there if you don’t believe it!

Also don’t think for one second that Ghosn was ready to develop just yet. Ghosn just bought the building and is developing a couple of others, cut the guy some slack. There’s a lot of competition in town. If I were him I would take my sweet time and do this right. The 1595 project has to be $30 million. Not easy to drum up that cash!

As Drybrain stated this is a huge WIN-WIN for Ghosn and the Discovery Centre management. And by the way do ya think you can just pack up a museum or science centre and move twice in 2-3 years, that’s got to be a pretty penny! Hundreds of thousands of temporary space costs, renovations, rebuilds. So yeah it would make sense to delay until you’re 100% ready and MOVE ONLY ONCE! The DC staff told me they're holding firm until all contracts and cash financing is in place and that's a smart move. As a member I talk to the staff a lot and know this has been the strategy all along. Don't move until every dime is raised so the Centre is not saddled with LTD like NSCAD or Farmers Market.

Half the funding for the New DC is from private companies according to allnovascotia like Wilsons Gas and CN Rail. These guys don’t part with their money so quick, These are major players that know encouraging kids in science is the key to the future. Calgary just finished a $160m science centre, Winnipeg is in a $50m expansion and Science North (Sudbury) has just completed a $20m expansion. I visited the Ontario Science Centre this summer. If we can be anything like these facilities we have a winner for generations to come! Hey guys read between the lines. Ghosn wants a delay, DC wants a delay, it’s a win-win. Not all the ducks are lined up for either party but both Ghosn’s new build and DC’s new build which according to allnovascotia will be complete in late 2015 will be great additions to the city. Some patience please.

[Dmajackson]

The motion going forward to Regional Council next week is below. I think it sounds completely reasonable.

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0318ca1141.pdf

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

The motion going forward to Regional Council next week is below. I think it sounds completely reasonable.

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0318ca1141.pdf

I think so. I'm glad there won't have to be a full consultation process. Just grant the extension and get the damn thing built.

[counterfactual]

Question: Was this to be a residential or commercial office development? Or had they made that decision yet?

[Hali87]

Residential/retail, I believe

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Residential/retail, I believe

Thumbs way up!

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Same store, but I've honestly never been back in since he left downtown.

It's located near the former Hooters and situated beside a strip club. It's not a very nice area.

I can't see how anyone would call that an improvement. I'm sure rent is much cheaper, but I can't see it surviving there.

I'm guessing over time the book selection will also suffer, because they don't get the natural yearly in flux of great books from university students selling off, or trading.

I was in the store last week and he is very happy with the location and the sales. It is just as cluttered as the previous store. He says it is a good location as many customers are not from central Halifax, the rent is cheaper, he has parking at his door and he has a a large on line customer base. The interesting part of our conversation focused on his views on the decline of locally owned business in downtown Halifax, and rising rents pushing small business to other parts of the peninsula and Dartmouth.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I was in the store last week and he is very happy with the location and the sales. It is just as cluttered as the previous store. He says it is a good location as many customers are not from central Halifax, the rent is cheaper, he has parking at his door and he has a a large on line customer base. The interesting part of our conversation focused on his views on the decline of locally owned business in downtown Halifax, and rising rents pushing small business to other parts of the peninsula and Dartmouth.

I probably bought about $500+ worth of books there over the years as a student. Since he left downtown, I haven't been back. Happy to hear he's doing fine.

Rents downtown are naturally going to rise, that's an inevitable product of economic growth. It means we're making progress. If Barrington is a dump, rents are going to be low. They're going to go up, because it's in the process of a re-birth.

But the book shop could have easily moved to an off street, or closer to the north end, where rent is cheaper. Still would have gotten foot traffic, and gaining windfall from online sales. It is what it is.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Alex Hawk

Thanks Drybrain for your refreshing opinions. I think we may need to clear up some misconceptions put out there by counterfactual and xanaxanax (your alias sounds like an anti-depression drug!) My post is a little lengthy but sure as hell trumps the scratch the surface comments.

I’ve been following Barrington Street situation for a long time and of course the Discovery Centre move. I’m a family member of the Discovery Centre and a science teacher with four small children. I go 2-3 times a month. We’re so excited for the New Discovery Centre on the waterfront. There will be a cluster of arts, science, the Farmers Market and Pier 21! What a slam dunk for tourism and all Nova Scotians!

I can also tell you there’s no better place to take your kids to educate them and have fun as a family. There's nowhere else to take your kids in Halifax for safe educational fun. Yes there’s sportsplexes and hockey rinks but what about training your mind and building confidence in future technologies. The front desk staff told me they have over 100,000 visitors a year and go all over the province to help rural schools get access to the latest science and math learning. At $10 a head for admission that seems like a good business model to me!

And to xanaxanax and counterfactual. How many $20m projects have you developed? Maybe there were some government and private donation announcements but anybody that’s dealt with government funding announcements (I’ve had some research grants) knows that’s just the beginning of a long negotiating process. Contracts thick as your heads need to be negotiated and signed before any cash flows or financing can take place. This can take months if not years! Look at the the new HRM library. That’s almost all government money and it took 15 years to start construction. Talk to the management of the library there if you don’t believe it!

Also don’t think for one second that Ghosn was ready to develop just yet. Ghosn just bought the building and is developing a couple of others, cut the guy some slack. There’s a lot of competition in town. If I were him I would take my sweet time and do this right. The 1595 project has to be $30 million. Not easy to drum up that cash!

As Drybrain stated this is a huge WIN-WIN for Ghosn and the Discovery Centre management. And by the way do ya think you can just pack up a museum or science centre and move twice in 2-3 years, that’s got to be a pretty penny! Hundreds of thousands of temporary space costs, renovations, rebuilds. So yeah it would make sense to delay until you’re 100% ready and MOVE ONLY ONCE! The DC staff told me they're holding firm until all contracts and cash financing is in place and that's a smart move. As a member I talk to the staff a lot and know this has been the strategy all along. Don't move until every dime is raised so the Centre is not saddled with LTD like NSCAD or Farmers Market.

Half the funding for the New DC is from private companies according to allnovascotia like Wilsons Gas and CN Rail. These guys don’t part with their money so quick, These are major players that know encouraging kids in science is the key to the future. Calgary just finished a $160m science centre, Winnipeg is in a $50m expansion and Science North (Sudbury) has just completed a $20m expansion. I visited the Ontario Science Centre this summer. If we can be anything like these facilities we have a winner for generations to come! Hey guys read between the lines. Ghosn wants a delay, DC wants a delay, it’s a win-win. Not all the ducks are lined up for either party but both Ghosn’s new build and DC’s new build which according to allnovascotia will be complete in late 2015 will be great additions to the city. Some patience please.

I didn't reply to this originally, because I thought the Q "How many $20m projects have you developed?" was a bit trolling. This is a board to discuss developments in downtown/peninsular Halifax. You don't have to have a developer badge to participate. In fact, our debates would be poorer if so a rule were in place.

But since you asked, why don't I introduce to you someone who *has* done more than a few "$20m projects" developed-- Louis Reznick-- who, by chance, happens to be raising the very same concerns that xanaxaxax and I raised on this seeming, needless delay. Here's Reznick in the Chronicle Herald today:

A major delay in the construction timetable for the Zellers building would be a setback for the revival of the historic Barrington Street district, he told me over the phone Monday.

[...]

Instead of putting the revival of Barrington Street on hold for the Discovery Centre, Reznick believes a temporary location should be found for the centre until construction of its new home is finished.

The delay could be buying time for the owners of the Zellers property to come up with a plan for the site, but Reznick says it may actually work against them if the revival of Barrington Street is scuttled by prolonging construction.

Although he acknowledges he has concerns about how an extended construction period downtown would affect tenants in his buildings, Reznick says Mason’s proposed amendment has greater implications for the city.

Link: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...vRvr34.twitter

I completely agree. I'm not convinced this is a "WIN-WIN", but even if it is for Ghosn (maybe) and the Discovery Centre (maybe), it's a LOSE for Barrington's revitalization. Because every delay creates greater risks, that we'll have an economic recession that will tighten up financing, and shelve this development for another XXX years.

No more delays. Find a temporary location for Discovery Centre and allow the Barrington revival to continue. This street has waited too long.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I didn't reply to this originally, because I thought the Q "How many $20m projects have you developed?" was obvious trolling. This is a board to discuss developments in downtown/peninsular Halifax. You don't have to have a developer badge to participate. In fact, our debates would be poorer if so a rule were in place.

But since you asked, why don't I introduce to you someone who *has* done more than a few "$20m projects" developed-- Louis Reznick-- who, by chance, happens to be raising the very same concerns that xanaxaxax and I raised on this seeming, needless delay. Here's Reznick in the Chronicle Herald today:




Link: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...vRvr34.twitter

I completely agree. I'm not convinced this is a "WIN-WIN", but even if it is for Ghosn (maybe) and the Discovery Centre (maybe), it's a LOSE for Barrington's revitalization. Because every delay creates greater risks, that we'll have an economic recession that will tighten up financing, and shelve this development for another XXX years.

No more delays. Find a temporary location for Discovery Centre and allow the Barrington revival to continue. This street has waited too long.

Looks like there is talks of a 2 year delay for the new Discovery Centre which has already been delayed for 2 years, it sure jumped for opening this spring to next to two more years awfully fast, It was just last October they were saying they would be ready to open this summer int he new location

[someone123]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

Looks like there is talks of a 2 year delay for the new Discovery Centre which has already been delayed for 2 years, it sure jumped for opening this spring to next to two more years awfully fast, It was just last October they were saying they would be ready to open this summer int he new location

The city can't really force the owners to begin construction by refusing an extension. There's always a chance the owners will abandon the project, and if it were a slam dunk right now from the owners' perspective I doubt we'd be having this conversation. It's possible they're holding off because so many other competing projects are being started right now.

For what it's worth, my view on this is that as long as it is easy to get approval and there's demand then there will be developers willing to build, if not on this site then on some other site nearby. If there's no demand then making life difficult for building owners is not going to help because it doesn't address any of the basic problems the street has.

I also think it's a little silly to talk as if the future of the street hinges on one comparatively small development that is surrounded by other developments that are moving forward. I find the constant hand-wringing pretty tiresome. It's so bad that I wonder sometimes how many problems in NS are exacerbated by the overwhelming negativity of the media.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by someone123

The city can't really force the owners to begin construction by refusing an extension. There's always a chance the owners will abandon the project, and if it were a slam dunk right now from the owners' perspective I doubt we'd be having this conversation. It's possible they're holding off because so many other competing projects are being started right now.

For what it's worth, my view on this is that as long as it is easy to get approval and there's demand then there will be developers willing to build, if not on this site then on some other site nearby. If there's no demand then making life difficult for building owners is not going to help because it doesn't address any of the basic problems the street has.

I also think it's a little silly to talk as if the future of the street hinges on one comparatively small development that is surrounded by other developments that are moving forward. I find the constant hand-wringing pretty tiresome. It's so bad that I wonder sometimes how many problems in NS are exacerbated by the overwhelming negativity of the media.

Huge pile of hogwash that there isn't enough demand because of competing projects.The absurdity of the EUROPA TOWER and its surrounding developments of building in which you could argue as being the suburban sticks is a direct effect of development in the core being snowballed on way or another and forcing people to live in the butt of communities and punting a strain on our transit system, could have had skye project fully populated without any effect on future developments in the city without these large number suburban apartment complexes. I love the discovery centre but they're dragging their feet and need a good kick to put a little more expediency to their new location or else this could easily turn into a 10 year wait and we'll have Europa Towers 2 and 3 by then.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

The city can't really force the owners to begin construction by refusing an extension. There's always a chance the owners will abandon the project, and if it were a slam dunk right now from the owners' perspective I doubt we'd be having this conversation. It's possible they're holding off because so many other competing projects are being started right now.

For what it's worth, my view on this is that as long as it is easy to get approval and there's demand then there will be developers willing to build, if not on this site then on some other site nearby. If there's no demand then making life difficult for building owners is not going to help because it doesn't address any of the basic problems the street has.

I also think it's a little silly to talk as if the future of the street hinges on one comparatively small development that is surrounded by other developments that are moving forward. I find the constant hand-wringing pretty tiresome. It's so bad that I wonder sometimes how many problems in NS are exacerbated by the overwhelming negativity of the media.

I do think that drawing out construction for longer than necessary has a detrimental impact on the street. If we can get more done at the same time, we should.

But I hear you, that it's, of course, not going to kill the street. And yes, you can't force them. But it did seem that Ghosn was full steam ahead until quite recently, when the DC issue was raised.